1911 cocked-and-locked, anyone ever forgets the safety?

[Hangingrock]

Col. Cooper capitalized on that movement and raised it to the status it has today. It was his works and words that drove me to the SA Pistols I own and have owned and also has helped with any enlightenment that has brought me to where I am today.

I'm old enough to have read most of what Cooper wrote in firearms publications starting in or about 1959/1960. Cooper evolved from point shooting with handguns to sighted fire advocacy. Contrary (not meant to diminish but rather perspective) Cooper never saw ground combat during WW2. He commanded the Marine detachment on the USS Pennsylvania. He did participate in Naval Gun Survey after the landings were made. During Korea he did not serve with the Marine Corps in Korea but in the Far East clandestine service. He separated from the Marine Corps at the rank of Lt-Colonel. During Viet-Nam he reapplied for a combat command but was denied due to is age in grade of Lt-Colonel. He did build a successful career is a writer/ lecturer/ teacher of firearms applied in self-defense etcetera-etcetera.

 

[Drail]

Quite right sir.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Well not everyone is John Wayne. I suppose that many of us from the 1960s were suffering from "Panic attacks". I thank you for your astute clinical psychological diagnoses. And you work for the VA?

 

[X-Rap]

Pointing a gun at another man 6 times and firing overhead once? You must be in a dangerous business.
In reading of many encounters here over the years the consensus definitely is to not make threats or warning shots.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Shooting dogs? Humm?

 

[S&Wfan]

Yes, a LEO died years ago in a drug deal gone bad. It was in the gun rags at the time.

The LEO was working undercover and something went wrong when he was talking to his "dealer" When he saw the bad guy go for his gun the officer quickly drew his 1911 but failed to wipe off the safety. He never got a shot off, the other guy killed him before he could remember why it wasn't going bang.

 

[SSN Vet]

All of my semi-autos are single action with a thumb safety. I carry them all in condition 1. Training and habit have swiping the thumb safety off while clearing leather an automatic action.

 

[GRIZ22]

When I started carrying different semiautos back in the 70s I developed my own technique of wiping the safety off when I draw. I slide my thumb along the slide in a manner that will push down a 1911 safety or push up a slide mounted safety like a Beretta 92. The safety always goes off on the draw. It's worked for me and I do it all the time. Even Glocks have finish wear where I've wiped my thumb along the slide. I do it all the time no matter what semi auto I carry.

 

[Steve Cover]

I haven't in a long, long time, not since the 1st couple times I shot a 1911, but I've trained and competed with 1911s for years.

My safety is swiped off on count 2 of my draw stroke as the pistol clears the holster. As part of my "thumbs forward" grip, my shooting hand thumb rides on top of the disengaged safety. so it's become impossible to miss/forget, just due to my grip. As a matter of fact, the 1911 is the only pistol I'll carry cocked and locked. I haven't found another pistol yet that puts the safety right where I need it because of my grip.

I have seen new shooters forget to disengage (quite a few actually) when on a clock, especially those that haven't trained in a proper draw.

Chuck

Exactly.
Lots of slow motion practice of the draw sequence is necessary to develop the proper muscle memory.
I carried a cocked and locked 1911 for over 40 years.
After long hours of practice, swiping the safety off just before the gun was level became automatic.
It just takes practice.

I also agree that the 1911 is the only gun I feel comfortable carrying cocked and locked.

Steve

 

[ATLDave]

Yes, a LEO died years ago in a drug deal gone bad. It was in the gun rags at the time.

The LEO was working undercover and something went wrong when he was talking to his "dealer" When he saw the bad guy go for his gun the officer quickly drew his 1911 but failed to wipe off the safety. He never got a shot off, the other guy killed him before he could remember why it wasn't going bang.

Source/citation?

 

[Steve Cover]

The vast majority of gun owners have never drawn from a holster and fired a live round. The vast majority of gun owners have not fired a round this year and its December. The vast majority of gun owners have not practiced a draw stroke this year either.

It is very difficult to find a place where you can draw and fire a weapon. Most ranges will not allow you to do it because of safety. You can say that is stupid but last week at the range the table in front of me had a large caliber bullet hole in it. It was not until I started taking lessons that I had ever drew and fired. I had practiced my draw stroke at home and I shoot a fair bit but I had never had a chance to put the tow together.

This is where dry fire practice becomes handy.
If you carry a sidearm, you need to be able to safely draw from your holster.
Slow motion drawing to a point on the bedroom wall a few hundred times will develop the proper muscle memory.
Also, I don't like the idea of a panic draw and fire.
I would rather be shot myself because I practiced a draw to a "decide" posture than accidentally shoot a friendly that managed to startle me.

Steve

 

[Steve Cover]

So here is a question and I honestly don't know the answer. You hear a pretty good bump in the night. You grab your 1911 and go to investigate, safety on or off? You no longer have your trained draw reflex because the gun is in your hand.

Personally, it would be safety off, trigger finger along side of the frame just like I have practiced after the draw.

Steve

 

[hdwhit]

...Not only on 1911s... I would like to know: anyone ever forgets to disengage the safety when drawing a gun with a 1911-type frame mounted safety? I'm not talking about those clumsy backward-working, stiff-as-hell, slide mounted contraptions found on several guns, but of proper safeties, ergonomically designed.

No.

With appropriate training, the shooter's thumb releases the safety at the time the gun is drawn under circumstances where it may need to be immediately fired.

Does anyone know about incidents where a LEO or other professional got killed because of the safety on a SA cocked-and-locked gun (getting "confused" by the complexity of that lever, or forgetting about it, or fumbling helplessly, or whatever)?

No. I don' t assume local LEOs are that easily confused,

I'm asking because I often read statements to the effect that a safety on a pistol "may confuse the shooter". Since I can't remember having ever been confused by the safety on my rifle, or my 1911, even under stress, I always wondered about that argument.

See above. Sometime in the 1950's my grandmother was awakened by the sound of two men on her back porch. She met them at the door with my grandfather's .45. Since my grandmother was the better shooter, my grandfather later confessed that after two wars and an Insurrection, he was never more afraid than he was that night.

 

[bangswitch]

All of my semi-autos are single action with a thumb safety. I carry them all in condition 1. Training and habit have swiping the thumb safety off while clearing leather an automatic action.

I find that muscle memory and training make operating all my semi's the same. I have the 1911, two striker-fired with slide safeties, and a Glock. When I draw any of them from carry, as I grip with my middle, ring, and little finger, my index finger goes to the ready position at the trigger guard, and my thumb sweeps the safety down; of course, that is a wasted motion with the Glock, but it is as automatic a move as with any other auto I shoot. By the time the left hand meets the pistol, right thumb is on the grip and gun is ready. Needless to say, all are carried C-1.