1911 Mysticism

[LiveLife]

"When people say 1911's can be finicky, unreliable and junk I tell them people who don't like fish or wine may just have tasted bad fish or wine."

I am an English teacher and semi-professional writer. I must say, that was sublime.

Well thank you. It's thanks to my patient and encouraging English teachers and professors, especially my High School psychology teacher who made us write 15-20 minutes of journal entry, a brain-dump without translation, every day without fail.

I have maintained my journal writing, often with entries being 12 to 17 pages long, and my longest being over 35 pages most of my adult life. When my wife found my 7 volume journals during our marriage counseling days, she told me it took a month to read every single page, some more than once, which ultimately led to ending the marriage counseling "to" work to save our marriage (Yeah, the marriage counseling was just a venting session which did more harm than good). I am happy to report that we have been happily married now for 24 years and retired.

I am one of those dudes who likes Ford and Chevy.

Same here. We were a lifelong Chevy family but for retirement, we chose Ram truck with EcoDiesel and Chrysler Pacifica (Genesis sedan and Kia Stinger GT were close runner ups) which we are happy with (Never imagined getting 28 MPG on a truck and 23 MPG towing and 30-32 MPG on a minivan loaded with passengers!)

Not sure why the big fuss over 1911 vs Glocks as compared to lifelong cost of ammunition, cost of firearms is small.

Life is short and we are all going to die.

Just buy both and enjoy both.

I did.

 

[tark]

I own one 1911 and you're looking at it. Don't know how reliable it is, I only fired one magazine through it, just to say that I had fired it. Seemed reliable enough.....for seven shots.

But I know for sure it ain't junk!

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Life is short and we are all going to die.

Just buy both and enjoy both.

Hear hear!

 

[dogtown tom]

I'm surprised that you're an English teacher when you can't spell bullets correctly.

I'm surprised that you've been here two years and didn't know why someone would spell it "boolits".
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/why-boolits-vs-bullets.746224/

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I own two 1911s and will probably add some more.

They are not junk but they can certainly be more finicky than a lot of other guns. My Turkish .45 tends to have feeding issues. That could be the mags I haven't taken the time to assess that. My 10mm Ruger has been flawless but I'm only a few hundred rounds in.

I like 1911s but I carry Glocks. Never an issue just like numerous other "plastic fantastics" I've had.

 

[Demi-human]

What kind of stuff do you write?

I'm surprised that you're an English teacher when you can't spell bullets correctly.

Bullet: a projectile. Especially when bought commercially from a manufacturer.

Boolit: a projectile. One that was smelted and hand cast of lead or lead alloy. Then hand lubed or coated then sized, lovingly, also by hand.
Game shot with a boolit tastes much better and is dispatched more quickly and humanly than game shot with a bullet.

Jargon: specific vocabulary used within a set of humans, with spelling and meanings specifically different than the whole set of humans.

 

[fxvr5]

I'm surprised that you've been here two years and didn't know why someone would spell it "boolits".
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/why-boolits-vs-bullets.746224/

Bullet: a projectile. Especially when bought commercially from a manufacturer.

Boolit: a projectile. One that was smelted and hand cast of lead or lead alloy. Then hand lubed or coated then sized, lovingly, also by hand.
Game shot with a boolit tastes much better and is dispatched more quickly and humanly than game shot with a bullet.

Jargon: specific vocabulary used within a set of humans, with spelling and meanings specifically different than the whole set of humans.

Sorry. Not impressed.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

@ all..... this got WAYYY out of hand. Wasn’t expecting this much feedback. Anyways, this just cracked me up. Me personally, after shooting several Blocks; just find that I don’t like the ergonomics. Doesn’t matter how many cartridges it holds, if I can’t put em on target; the capacity is absolutely irrelevant. I guess I’m one of the few that Blocks just don’t fit well.

 

[Garandimal]

I couldn't watch to the end. He's clueless.

I couldn’t get past the super serious tactical look on his face in the first 5 seconds.

There's a lot of that on utube......

He has obviously trained himself into warrior monk status... like a Jedi.






GR

 

[Demi-human]

Me either.

I'm surprised that you're an English teacher when you can't spell bullets correctly.

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[Garandimal]

@ all..... this got WAYYY out of hand. Wasn’t expecting this much feedback. Anyways, this just cracked me up. Me personally, after shooting several Blocks; just find that I don’t like the ergonomics. Doesn’t matter how many cartridges it holds, if I can’t put em on target; the capacity is absolutely irrelevant. I guess I’m one of the few that Blocks just don’t fit well.

Thanks for not abandoning the thread, but... what, exactly, is a "Block?"

If you are referring to a "Glock", and you are interested in .45 ACP...?

Try the Slimline G36.

Glock fans generally hate it, not only because it does not hold at least a baker's dozen rounds, but also because if "feels weird" (which is the sweet spot).

Thin and light weight .45 ACP.

...like a Colt Officer's ACP, but half the weight.




GR

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Thanks for not abandoning the thread, but... what, exactly, is a "Block?"

If you are referring to a "Glock", and you are interested in .45 ACP...?

Try the Slimline G36.

Glock fans generally hate it, not only because it does not hold at least a baker's dozen rounds, but also because if "feels weird" (which is the sweet spot).

Thin and light weight .45 ACP.

...like a Colt Officer's ACP, but half the weight.




GR

1. I call it a “Block” instead of a “Glock”.... because that’s what it feels like to me. Like grabbing a block of lumber. Revolver, 1911, Browning HP, etc; just feel right. Blocks... feel weird.


2. Still no interest in .45 Auto. Excellent round; but now... I must ask ‘why’ ? On average, .45 Auto is twice the price per box of 50, holds less rounds per platform, and generally has the same performance (again, refer to Greg Ellifritz’s study on handgun ballistics. Again... I ask ‘why’ ? If it is for sentimental or historicity; more power to you. But to claim superiority when multiple credible sources state otherwise (G. Ellifritz, FBI, vast majority of LEO agencies) is an endeavor in futility and a breeding ground of ignorance.

 

[bersaguy]

I have a great respect for the 1911, and shoot it better than just about anything else. Had to go through a couple "almosta" 1911s though. First was a Llama, then a Metro Arms Commander. If I had based the reliability of the 1911 platform on those two, I'd probably be extolling the virtue of Gaston Glock's invention. But a found a m1927 Sistema, a faithful Colt M1911A1 copy. Runs like a sewing machine. Runs even better with some new parts, but hey...its a 60 year old pistol. Now, I'm not sure, but I doubt anyone would be too terribly excited to get a 30 year old gen 1 glock. That aside, if you like snubbies and 1911s, than great. If you dont like plastic 9's that's great too. If you like 1911's but are interested in a 9mm with more capacity, may I suggest a CZ75. Direct lineage to the 1911 via the Hi Power, and a fantastic shooter. For me personally, I still like 45acp. It's old, fat and slow...but it gets the job done

 

[Garandimal]

1. I call it a “Block” instead of a “Glock”.... because that’s what it feels like to me. Like grabbing a block of lumber. Revolver, 1911, Browning HP, etc; just feel right. Blocks... feel weird.


2. Still no interest in .45 Auto. Excellent round; but now... I must ask ‘why’ ? On average, .45 Auto is twice the price per box of 50, holds less rounds per platform, and generally has the same performance (again, refer to Greg Ellifritz’s study on handgun ballistics. Again... I ask ‘why’ ? If it is for sentimental or historicity; more power to you. But to claim superiority when multiple credible sources state otherwise (G. Ellifritz, FBI, vast majority of LEO agencies) is an endeavor in futility and a breeding ground of ignorance.

A good question... and a lot of Kool-Aid.



People that have shot people, and watched people get shot, with the .45 ACP, and the 9mm, a lot? Will tell you a different story than the academics and economists that read shooting incidence reports, and MD's that work on cold cadavers.

Find them and listen to what they say.

Me?

1. I pay < $13/50 box for factory 230 gr.ball ammo. Maybe $3 more than my 9mm and a coupla bucks more than .40. I spend more than that in fuel gettin' to the range, and $150/year for an every week range schedule is not goin' to change my life. Defensive Ammo is ~ the same as 9mm/.40. The last .45 ACP HST was $22.50/50 box. Again, not life-changing.

2. .45 ACP is low pressure and subsonic. I expect to use my SD pistol at close quarters and in confined spaces - small rooms/hallways/alleys/vehicles/etc... I don't expect to have time to ear-pro up.

3. Hits count - good hits count more - bigger hits count more. Those are facts. If all I can get is two rounds in? Then I want them to be 12 Ga. buckshot. The closest to that, for me, in a pistol is the .45 ACP (because of point Two).

4. If the chance of missing is directly linked with the act of shooting? Rounds Not fired have Zero(0.0) chance of missing... and imparting damage on the precious collateral that is most likely in proximity to me at home/work/traveling. Every miss has a lawsuit or a funeral attached.

5. I don't shoot fast. I don't practice to shoot fast. I don't want to have to rely on shooting fast. I shoot good. One second intervals right where they need to go.

(G36/ 230 gr. ball/ 10 yards/ 5 rounds/ 5 sec. from low ready/ Strong hand only)

​

Also have a 6-round spare mag, and sometimes even a 6-round reload cube, if things go really bad... outside of the 1/6,000 chance that I had to shoot in the first place and need more than Six rounds.

6. I like the platforms. The G36 is a great size for an EDC. Big/Small/Thin/Fat/light/heavy/short/long... enough. And the 1911-A1 is a great Home/office/truck pistol, that even makes it into the field now and then. Big/heavy/stable with a great trigger. no built in misses there. Have a little 9mm, because it's little, but it's not what I would consider a fighting pistol.

So, I could live with a G19 9mm.

My Go-to-War pistol is a G23.4.

But my Home/Office/Truck pistol is a 1911-A1.

...and my prime EDC... is the Glock G36 .45 ACP.




GR

 

[LiveLife]

While I like 1911 platform I started out shooting, let's bust some myths.

Contrary to many gun forum claims of people being able to shoot 1911s better than striker pistols, that maybe due to cleaner trigger but in reality, it may be the shooter.

How so?

American Rifleman does 25 yard testing of various pistols and I compiled the following list from pistols that produced smaller shot groups than others. As you can see, most recognizable 1911s did not produce the smallest groups. Look over the list and see what you think - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-9#post-10940688

Nighthawk Custom Hi-Power (25 yards) 0.74" to 1.71" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/4/11/tested-nighthawk-custom-hi-power/

Glock 19 Gen5 MOS FS (25 yards) 0.80" to 2.52" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/6/20/tested-glock-19-gen5-mos-fs-pistol/

EAA Witness Elite 1911 (25 yards) 0.82" to 1.41" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/5/tested-eaa-witness-elite-1911-polymer-pistol/

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 (25 yards) 1.00" to 1.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

Ruger PC carbine (50 yards) 1.13" to 1.42" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

Sig P320 X-Five/VTAC (25 yards) 1.14" to 1.97" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact (25 yards) 1.22" to 3.64" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/30/tested-smith-wesson-mp9-m20-compact-pistol/

Remington R1 M1911 (25 yards) 1.24" to 2.99" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/1/13/the-remington-r1-m1911/

KRISS Vector Gen II SDP 9 (25 yards) 1.33" to 1.53" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/19/tested-kriss-usa-vector-gen-ii-sdp-9-mm-pistol/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 (25 yards) 1.33" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/22/tested-smith-wessons-mp-m20-pistol/

Sig P225 (25 yards) 1.38" to 2.43" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/6/22/tested-sig-sauer-p225-a1-nitron-compact-pistol/

Ruger SR1911 Target (25 yards) 1.46" to 3.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/1/9/tested-ruger-sr1911-target-pistol/

Sig P226 Legion Series (25 yards) 1.58" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/15/tested-sig-sauer-legion-series-p226-pistol/

Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite (25 yards) 1.82" to 2.00" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/3/tested-ruger-mark-iv-2245-lite-pistol/

FN 509 (25 yards) 1.88" to 2.06" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/6/26/tested-the-fn-509-pistol/

H&K VP9SK (25 yards) 1.97" to 2.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/5/tested-heckler-koch-s-vp9sk-pistol/

Beretta APX (25 yards) 2.30" to 2.47" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/7/25/tested-beretta-s-apx-pistol/

CZ P-10 C (25 yards) 2.40" to 3.02" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/10/6/tested-cz-p-10-c-pistol/

Kimber Camp Guard 10mm (25 yards) 2.41" to 2.69" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/11/tested-kimber-camp-guard-10-pistol/

Springfield XDM 4.5" OSP (25 yards) 2.46" to 2.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/21/tested-springfield-xdm-45-osp-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger American (25 yards) 2.48" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/29/tested-ruger-american-pistol/

PSA 1911 Stainless Two-Tone (25 yards) 2.51" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...to-state-armory-1911-two-tone-premium-pistol/

Walther PPQ M2 Q4 Tac (25 yards) 2.53" to 2.76" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/19/tested-walther-ppq-m2-q4-tac-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger Security 9 (25 yards) 2.63" to 3.15" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

More pistol reviews and 25 yard groups at link.

 

[JR24]

I like both, have both, shoot both.

For carry ive really been liking my aluminum frame 9mm CCO 1911. About the same weight as a Glock 19 with a thinner profile that conceals better for me. Sure, I do give up a few rounds but that's fine by me.

Sorry. Not impressed.

What is there to be impressed by? It's a common parlance within a subset of shooters (read: reloaders) and has been for a while. It is what it is.

 

[Garandimal]

While I like 1911 platform I started out shooting, let's bust some myths.

Contrary to many gun forum claims of people being able to shoot 1911s better than striker pistols, that maybe due to cleaner trigger but in reality, it may be the shooter.

How so?

American Rifleman does 25 yard testing of various pistols and I compiled the following list from pistols that produced smaller shot groups than others. As you can see, most recognizable 1911s did not produce the smallest groups. Look over the list and see what you think - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-9#post-10940688

Nighthawk Custom Hi-Power (25 yards) 0.74" to 1.71" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/4/11/tested-nighthawk-custom-hi-power/

Glock 19 Gen5 MOS FS (25 yards) 0.80" to 2.52" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/6/20/tested-glock-19-gen5-mos-fs-pistol/

EAA Witness Elite 1911 (25 yards) 0.82" to 1.41" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/5/tested-eaa-witness-elite-1911-polymer-pistol/

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 (25 yards) 1.00" to 1.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

Ruger PC carbine (50 yards) 1.13" to 1.42" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

Sig P320 X-Five/VTAC (25 yards) 1.14" to 1.97" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact (25 yards) 1.22" to 3.64" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/30/tested-smith-wesson-mp9-m20-compact-pistol/

Remington R1 M1911 (25 yards) 1.24" to 2.99" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/1/13/the-remington-r1-m1911/

KRISS Vector Gen II SDP 9 (25 yards) 1.33" to 1.53" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/19/tested-kriss-usa-vector-gen-ii-sdp-9-mm-pistol/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 (25 yards) 1.33" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/22/tested-smith-wessons-mp-m20-pistol/

Sig P225 (25 yards) 1.38" to 2.43" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/6/22/tested-sig-sauer-p225-a1-nitron-compact-pistol/

Ruger SR1911 Target (25 yards) 1.46" to 3.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/1/9/tested-ruger-sr1911-target-pistol/

Sig P226 Legion Series (25 yards) 1.58" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/15/tested-sig-sauer-legion-series-p226-pistol/

Ruger Mark IV 22/45 Lite (25 yards) 1.82" to 2.00" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/3/tested-ruger-mark-iv-2245-lite-pistol/

FN 509 (25 yards) 1.88" to 2.06" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/6/26/tested-the-fn-509-pistol/

H&K VP9SK (25 yards) 1.97" to 2.23" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/5/tested-heckler-koch-s-vp9sk-pistol/

Beretta APX (25 yards) 2.30" to 2.47" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/7/25/tested-beretta-s-apx-pistol/

CZ P-10 C (25 yards) 2.40" to 3.02" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/10/6/tested-cz-p-10-c-pistol/

Kimber Camp Guard 10mm (25 yards) 2.41" to 2.69" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/11/tested-kimber-camp-guard-10-pistol/

Springfield XDM 4.5" OSP (25 yards) 2.46" to 2.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/21/tested-springfield-xdm-45-osp-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger American (25 yards) 2.48" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/29/tested-ruger-american-pistol/

PSA 1911 Stainless Two-Tone (25 yards) 2.51" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...to-state-armory-1911-two-tone-premium-pistol/

Walther PPQ M2 Q4 Tac (25 yards) 2.53" to 2.76" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/19/tested-walther-ppq-m2-q4-tac-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger Security 9 (25 yards) 2.63" to 3.15" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/2/tested-ruger-s-pc-carbine-and-security-9-pistol/

More pistol reviews and 25 yard groups at link.

These are "Ransom Rest" tests.

SD shooting - is a long way from that. I'll take a rattle-trap 24 MOA 1911 with an icicle trigger over an 8 MOA anything that had a heavy/crappy trigger.




GR

 

[Zaydok Allen]

1. I call it a “Block” instead of a “Glock”.... because that’s what it feels like to me. Like grabbing a block of lumber. Revolver, 1911, Browning HP, etc; just feel right. Blocks... feel weird.


2. Still no interest in .45 Auto. Excellent round; but now... I must ask ‘why’ ? On average, .45 Auto is twice the price per box of 50, holds less rounds per platform, and generally has the same performance (again, refer to Greg Ellifritz’s study on handgun ballistics. Again... I ask ‘why’ ? If it is for sentimental or historicity; more power to you. But to claim superiority when multiple credible sources state otherwise (G. Ellifritz, FBI, vast majority of LEO agencies) is an endeavor in futility and a breeding ground of ignorance.

Try a HK VP9 or P30. 1911s are great but there’s lots of good plastic out there too. No reason not to experiment and expand your hobby.

 

[LiveLife]

These are "Ransom Rest" tests.

Nope. While some of the testing is done on the Ransom Rest, most are done on simple rest or sandbagged rest or both simple rest/sandbagged rest and Ransom Rest.

For Glock 19 Gen5 MOS FS testing, they used a simple rest - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/6/20/tested-glock-19-gen5-mos-fs-pistol/

"25 yds. from a Caldwell Pistolero rest"

And for Sig P320 testing, they used a sandbagged rest - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

"tested from a sandbagged rest at 25 yds."

 

[Garandimal]

Nope.

For Glock 19 Gen5 MOS FS testing, they used a simple rest - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/6/20/tested-glock-19-gen5-mos-fs-pistol/

"25 yds. from a Caldwell Pistolero rest"

And for Sig P320 testing, they used a sandbagged rest - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

"tested from a sandbagged rest at 25 yds."

View attachment 853665

Point bein'... they are both a long way from defensive shooting, especially one hand defensive shooting, which may be all you get given threat a/o circumstance.




GR

 

[LiveLife]

Point bein'... they are both a long way from defensive shooting, especially one hand defensive shooting, which may be all you get given threat a/o circumstance.

What???

A pistol that is more accurate at 25 yards should be accurate at closer "defensive shooting" range.

 

[Garandimal]

What???

A pistol that is more accurate at 25 yards should be accurate at closer "defensive shooting" range.

You have no idea - if you are shooting it from a solid rest.

There are any number of factors that will influence actual shooting accuracy, a good trigger being chief among them.




GR

 

[Tallball]

For those who asked...

This will be my 27th year teaching. I've mostly taught English classes to "gifted and talented" 6th, 7th, and 8th graders.

My most recent novel is called "Walking Through the Shadow". It's a sort of paranormal adventure story aimed at readers aged 15 or so. It's available on Amazon.

To sort of stay on topic... here's my latest 1911:

RIA 1911 45acp

• Tallball
• Jun 26, 2019

And my trusty Glock Model 22:

Glock G22

• Tallball
• Jan 6, 2018
• 2

 

[Zaydok Allen]

You have no idea - if you are shooting it from a solid rest.

There are any number of factors that will influence actual shooting accuracy, a good trigger being chief among them.

GR

Sure but without mechanical accuracy the skill of a shooter can become mostly irrelevant.

If a gun is mechanically accurate at 25 yards and the shooter is able to shoot the gun at all, a closer target will always be easier to get accurate hits on than a further target.

 

[bannockburn]

Mr. Mosin

My favorite 1911 in .45 ACP:


My favorite double stack magazine pistol in 9mm.:


Both guns possess decent single action triggers and sights, are reliable, durable, ergonomic, and accurate.

Nothing "mystical" about either gun. They both just work perfectly for me.