1st Accessories for AR15

[JAshley73]

I wanted to poll the more experienced crowd on what "accessories" are necessary for a AR15 rifle, for "home defense."

I have (2 actually) Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport rifle. These come with the standard A2 front sight post/gas block, and a Magpul MBUS rear flip up sight.

I have replaced the fore end grip with a Magpul SL grip, only for a little extra real estate to grip the fore end. Added a simple sling as well.



Sights, Optic, or weapon light first?

I've considered swapping the front sight post for a a drop-in XS standard dot (with tritium), for low light visibility.

Others have advised that a weapon light is more important, and would also illuminate the front sight post.

Others still advise to get a red dot or LVPO first. I'm not sure how I feel about adding an optic, and having the front post visible in the optic. Seems like a BDC reticle would be pointless as well, with the front post in visible. And going with a 1/3 co-witness seems like it would require a different cheek-weld, which I'm not too keen on.

I would appreciate a little insight from you folks.



Let me say that I'm not too interested in being a "tactical operator" or anything close. I have pistols with tritium night sights that currently serve "bump in the night" duty. I also don't get much time to practice at the range, so that's another reason I'm not too keen on adding an optic at this time. Our current home is also such that it's never really pitch dark, inside or out.

Thanks in advance.

 

[BreechFace]

I like a short BCM vertical grip out towards the end of the MagPul forend so I can rest my pinky side of my hand against it and wrap my thumb over top to help control the muzzle when firing. (~$30)

I also utilize a surefire light with pressure tape switch positions to where my off hand thumb can activate on top of the MagPul forend. (~$250)

A good two point sling is invaluable in a HD scenario it allows one to drop the weapon to facilitate any needs with one’s hands. (~$30-$60)

I like 20 round MagPul mags as they fit a profile that is in line with the grip so as not to stick out and hang up as much as 30’s. (~$12/ea)

A linear compensator would be a good improvement as it will send the blast forward and away from the shooter. A 16” AR in 556 is going to be loud in a home but a linear compensator such as the KAW Valley would be a good low cost option to tame some of the blast at the shooter. (~$35-50)

A red dot sight is quick and easy for target acquisition some good affordable options can be found in Primary Arms or Holosun. (~$150-$250)

 

[JAshley73]

So I already have a new fore end, and sling.

Have a sizeable collection of 10, 20 & 30round PMAGs. A 30 lives in the gun. (I have noticed that Gen3 PMAG's load better on a closed bolt, due to their slight ramp above the magazine catch detent on the magazine.)

Perhaps a better question(s) would have been...

-Is a weapon light an absolute necessity?
-Is an "optic" an absolute necessity?

The conservative side of me says, no - we've been employing rifles for "Home Defense" use for 100 years now, without the benefit of Surefire lights & red dots.

I'm not opposed to those things, but the conservative side of me says, spend that money on ammo, a training course, and range time instead.

 

[anothernewb]

Hmmm. home defense in an AR.
Might go against the grain, but I would start with a pistol type barrel length. Add a CQB type holosight, weapon light, and a supressor would be on the top of my list.

 

[powermad]

I tried a red dot for a bit.
I have the same issue with Irons as well as a red dot.
I don't see so well anymore so I use a scope.

For my GP gun it has a 1-8 LPVO, two point sling and an Inforce light.
My 18" has a 2.5-10 scope, sling and no light.

If you have a front sight base you will only see it with a red dot or when using the low power on a scope.
I prefer taller mounts, 1.6" to 1.93" tall

 

[BreechFace]

So I already have a new fore end, and sling.

Have a sizeable collection of 10, 20 & 30round PMAGs. A 30 lives in the gun. (I have noticed that Gen3 PMAG's load better on a closed bolt, due to their slight ramp above the magazine catch detent on the magazine.)

Perhaps a better question(s) would have been...

-Is a weapon light an absolute necessity?
-Is an "optic" an absolute necessity?

The conservative side of me says, no - we've been employing rifles for "Home Defense" use for 100 years now, without the benefit of Surefire lights & red dots.

I'm not opposed to those things, but the conservative side of me says, spend that money on ammo, a training course, and range time instead.

I think both your questions need additional information to answer.

What does your home look like? You in town, suburbs, country?

If in town, and you say that your outside is lit as well as the interior of your home to some degree, I would say no both are not necessary. Even if the farthest shot within your home is 50' which would be stretching it by most home standards, that is not a hard target.

Suburbs, depends on how much land around your home that you would possibly need to identify a perpetrator, if it's 50 yards to your perimeter, a WML isn't a bad option for lighting up something that has your attention; shooting at a perpetrator at 50 yards would only be in a scenario where you feel you are in immediate danger (i.e. they are shooting at you or are moving towards someone under your care with perceived ill intentions); if at all possible it would be better to retreat in doors and dial 911.

Country, I would say both a WML (weapon mounted light) and a RDS (red dot sight) would be preferable, especially if one is defending their home against 4 legged predators as well. Shots in this scenario are dependent on lot size, but 100+ yards wouldn't be out of the norm.

A WML is nice to have as once a target is identified the blast of light is very disorienting to those on the other end of it. The potential problems with a WML is the fact that people use it to identify the target meaning they are pointing a carbine at an unknown target (potentially a family member, etc), so good trigger control is a must.

A RDS once trained with it just makes it quicker target acquisition as you can stay "target focused," meaning you are just superimposing the red dot on where you want to hit and pull the trigger. Whereas with iron sights you have to be front sight focused and the target will be blurred behind. This is the biggest difference between the two sighting systems.

Personally, without knowing more information, I think you are on the right track of putting the additional money towards ammunition for training and training costs; those are going to serve you infinitely better than a WML and RDS more than likely.

 

[JAshley73]

I think both your questions need additional information to answer.

What does your home look like? You in town, suburbs, country?

I appreciate this post - Thank you.

"Home" is a 1/4 acre lot in an older subdivision. Tri-level house, with all bedrooms upstairs. "The Shot" most likely would be down the steps from our master bedroom, into a dimly lit kitchen area. Seeing the front sight is the issue currently. This is what leads me to something like a drop in tritium front sight post.

Any outside work would be a low light situation as well. We have street lights, but even when the power is out, usually there's enough light pollution nearby, that with cloud cover, it's never "pitch black" outside.



Let me also say, that in the real world, I can't imagine many scenarios in my present home, where I'd want to be outside with a rifle, on offense/defense. Nor where they would actually occur.

 

[BreechFace]

Given what I know of your situation I would skip the tritium insert and go straight to a RDS and train with it. There are good options from Primary Arms and Holosun for $200-$250 including the mount. Look for the shake-awake feature in the RDS so it turns one when moved and shuts off after a period of time, change the battery every year on your birthday.

You will be faster in target acquisition and threat focused.

Primary Arms RDS - $149.99 + discounted mount $44.95
You can bundle the absolute co-witness riser (it's shown as a discounted add-on bundle below the RDS linked above) which will put your red dot in alignment with your front sight post

Holosun Paralow (HS503G) - $249.99
This comes with the mount, and has a large circle for close quarters quick target acquisition then a chevron in the center for precise aiming. You can look at the reticle in the pictures on the site.

 

[Charlie98]

This is what leads me to something like a drop in tritium front sight post.

Skip it... I would just go with a red dot sight.

I did a little exercise a year or so ago... I took the rear sight off my AR, and ran some shooting drills... that is, body sized targets at reasonable SD ranges, using only the FSP as a reference.... and did just about as well as I did with the rear sight. Because I have the same index mark (my nose on the charging handle...) my sight picture is always the same, so in quick shooting drills against larger targets, the FSP acts as the aiming point with or without the rear aperture, very much like a red dot sight would. I could see how the RDS would be superior in low- or no light situations, or even when coupled with a weapon light.

I would not bother with an optic with any magnification, or even a RDS multiplier. At SD ranges, it would be a burden, not a benefit.

I like 20 round MagPul mags as they fit a profile that is in line with the grip so as not to stick out and hang up as much as 30’s.

+1

Even when I was in the Army, I had a 20rd in the weapon. You can also slip a 20rd mag in your back pocket or jacket pocket without it hanging out or catching on stuff.

 

[Charlie98]

I also don't get much time to practice at the range,

I would try to fix that, too.

Understand that during an encounter... home invasion, bump in the night, etc, and your body dumps adrenaline into your system, your fine motor skills are going to be greatly diminished. Something as simple as sweeping a safety off can become a challenge. The only thing you can rely on is whats been imbedded in your brain through repetitive training.

 

[AlexanderA]

I would question an AR for home defense. Overkill. And I say this as a longtime collector of AR's.

Keep an ordinary handgun for defense, and call it good.

 

[BreechFace]

Given the layout of your home, being that all the bedrooms are upstairs, and the likely shot is a shot downstairs. A 12g shotgun is probably the best option for stopping a perpetrator. Just another wrinkle for you to consider. For me, in your situation it would be hard to argue against a 12gauge. In a 2-3/4" 00 buck cartridge there will be 9 - .33cal bullets heading down range at 1,300-1,400fps, that is a fight stopper.

Shotguns normally are problematic in homes because of over penetration; the same can be said for handgun rounds.

The nature of a rifle bullet (5.56) is that the base of it's bullet is where the weight is so, when the pointed bullet hits a wall or furniture it disrupts it's rotation and it ends up tumbling which prevents over penetration. In 00 Buck or pistol bullets the weight is much more centered which can cause them to continue through a wall or furniture without tumbling causing concern for what is beyond the object it struck. This wouldn't be a concern for your layout as all your bedrooms are upstairs, unless in a struggle you discharged the weapon at the ceiling when downstairs.

Didn't mean to get in the weeds here with another suggestion, but given you are on a 1/4 acre, all the bedrooms are upstairs, and the fight would be upstairs to downstairs; the above just popped into my mind. But an AR setup would be a very good option for you as well.

 

[Varminterror]

Another vote for skipping the tritium and adding a proper RDS or Prism. I prefer LPVO’s because I use and train with scopes far, far more than I do with dots or sights, but it sounds like no matter what you choose, you’ll need to get some training and increase your practice paradigm, or start one. LPVO with an RDS on a 45degree mount is pretty versatile.

Adding a WML makes sense as well. This shouldn’t be an either/or scenario - if you’re building a house, you don’t show up with just a hammer but no saw, or a tape measure but no square.

 

[JAshley73]

The current "what was that bump in the night?" gun is a S&W M&P full size, 9mm pistol with tritium sights. I want to go ahead and replace these with XS big dots to match my carry gun - M&P Shield in 9mm. Both loaded with Hornady 135gr Critical Duty. Certainly, either could fill in just fine.

I also have a 12ga Beretta A303 semi-auto, which lives in the safe with 00-Buck in the tube. Only (3) rounds in the tube though...

The AR15 seems attractive, mainly for the sling, and being slightly shorter than the 12ga. I seem to be fairly consistent with the cheek weld, and usually requires very little 'adjustment' to align the sights.
(I do practice dry-mounts/aims with all these guns somewhat often.)

 

[CapnMac]

1/4 acre lot & tri-level house suggests some things to me.
Outdoor distances are going to max out at 20-30 yards.
Indoor distances are going to be around 20-30 feet.

Those distances do not sound ideal for LVPO, as needing to fiddle with the sight means changing your grip.
Tritium sight only makes sense if a person can guarantee the darkness level. Which is going to be difficult.
Which tends to recommend an RDS. Shake-awake means no fiddling with the sight.

Downside to the RDS is, that without training, it tends to narrow your situational awareness.

Sling is not likely to be useful at all, other than to snag on every unexpected thing, and not help with weapon retention or the like.

Now, maybe a VFG could help for being a sure and certain grip point. You will be under considerable stress should the situation occur having things that can be reflexive, committed to "muscle memory" is an advantage.

That WML, if used needs to be "ranged" to your houses needs--that 30' distance does not need the lumens that a 100-150 yards use wants.

 

[1911 guy]

One man's opinion:
Your first accessory needs to be a light. Bright enough to blind someone at the muzzle end but not bright enough to blind you with splashback.
Whether irons or dot or holographic, make sure the sight is visible in all light levels and instinctive to use. CapnMac's suggestion of a "shake awake" RDS is my personal choice, co-witnessed with irons .
A VFG is most useful as a barricade stop and unless you're willing to train to use it as such, forget it.

 

[Charlie98]

Shake-awake means no fiddling with the sight.

I wasn't even aware those were a thing... Going back to my adrenalized lack of fine motor skills point, that would be far superior to fumbling with an on/off knob or buttons. Duly noted.

 

[Telekinesis]

Let me say that I'm not too interested in being a "tactical operator" or anything close.

Not to belabor the point, but there’s a reason that people who actually expect to fight with their rifles have things like optics, lights, and good slings. It’s not to look cool. Those things provide major benefits over the basic iron sighted rifle.



First item I would recommend is a good 2 point sling. Something like a Blue Force Gear or VTAC. They’re a bit more expensive than a simple fixed 2 point sling, but the quick adjust is pretty useful. A sling for a rifle is like a holster for a pistol.



I would definitely recommend you get a red dot. As mentioned above it lets you stay target focused (as opposed to refocusing from target to front sight, back to target) and is significantly more forgiving if your head is not in the exact right spot which happens a lot when doing things like leaning around cover or just trying to shoot quickly. If you’re shooting while moving (at either a stationary or moving target) it is so much easier to use a red dot, it’s not even funny.

Lower third is probably a good recommendation, especially if you’re using an optic on the same footprint as an Aimpoint T2 (a smaller diameter red dot). If you have something more like an Aimpoint Pro (a 30mm tube) you could get away with an absolute cowitness.

To give you an idea of where the dot should be on a lower third mount - aim down the rifle as normal with the irons, and then raise your head slightly so that your eye is looking just over the rear sight aperture. It’s a slightly different cheek weld, but just barely. You really don’t get into cheek weld issues until you start looking at high optics mounts designed for shooting with night vision.

Another big advantage to a red dot is that due to sight over bore offset, at close range your point of impact will be substantially below your point of aim. If you’re using a red dot you can still clearly see below the dot where the bullet will impact the target, but if you’re using irons the point of impact will usually be obscured.

Skip the tritium sights for your rifle.



A light is also a great addition. Being able to see and identify your target can be very important. A good light should have enough spill that you can light up a room, or at least the stairwell, without having to actually aim the gun at a person. Additionally, take a scenario where you don’t have a light and would be shooting someone coming up your stairway. Having a light gives you the option to illuminate your target and get a better ID and a better sight picture. You don’t HAVE to use the light if it’s on your gun, but if you don’t have a light you can’t.

I also don't get much time to practice at the range

This is something you should fix, especially if you don’t have much experience with using an AR in this context. Things like weapon and safety manipulation, mag changes, malfunction clearance, when/how to use the light, the aforementioned sight over bore offset - none of this happens because you read about it or watched a video. It needs practice.

A good example - I have a high mount red dot on one of my rifles. In order to get good head hits (A zone on a USPSA target) I have to hold my dot ABOVE the head of the target. And that holdover changes depending on how far away from the target I am. 5, 10, 15 yards all have different holds. To make it even more complicated, each gun/optics/zero setup has a different holdover. Like they say, knowing is half the battle - but this is something that really needs to be experienced and practiced.

 

[JAshley73]

I currently have a Magpul MS1 sling, mounted via the rear sling loop on a USGI CAR stock, and on a Magpul M-Lok GI sling loop, about halfway down the length of a Magpu SL handguard. Lets me grip up close to the mag well if I want (yuck) or our nearer the front sight post/gas block.

No optic yet. Or weapon mounted light. Plenty of PMAGs. Several hundred rounds of ammo.



So.....

Let's say I have $500 to spend. On optics, weapon mounted light, sight, ammo, and range time...

What's the best way to spend that $500?

 

[powermad]

$500 doesn't go far.

About $250 is the least I would spend on a red dot.
If I was to buy another it would be an Aimpoint PRO for about $500 or the ACO that's a bit less.

I'm looking at taking a class in a few months. $200 for the class and 300 rounds of ammo.

This is kinda long but has good info on different gear.

 

[Gun4Fun90]

I am gonna be honest I have a $600 reddot (technically holographic, but the difference are not important for this convo) and a $60 dollar reddot, and while I recognize there are things that are objectively superior about the $600 one it dose not make me a better shooter. I can hit my target just as well with the $60 one as I can with the $600 one.

Range time and practice are way more important. So I would recommend getting a cheap reddot like this https://a.co/d/0PkjKZm and spending all that money you save one ammo and range time to get better. And after you have about 1000 rounds through your gun come back to this issue and go accessory shopping (and buy a nicer reddot with shake awake and auto sleep).

 

[FL-NC]

A light and the knowledge to use it correctly are very valuable, since darkness covers the planet about 50 percent of the time. You can't always rely on the power grid, but you can always count on darkness. Or the assumption that your well-lit home is for sure even going to be the place where you may end up needing to use a "HD" gun. For a HD type AR, I recommend cutting down a carry handle to expose the forward portion of the rail, and always have a quality iron sight available for immediate use, then mounting a co-witness red dot. This way, if the red dot doesn't work or you don't have the opportunity or forget to turn it on, you still have iron sights in play.

 

[powermad]

I have a Romeo5 XDR and it's a battery eater.
Several times I have shouldered it and after fiddling with it find the battery dead.
Not a big deal as it's a AAA.
The motion activation works a bit too well, it's on more than you think so I just switch it off.
I wouldn't use alkaline batteries either if it's just going to sit and costs more than $5.

For something that I would want to work when I needed it I would would look at the Aimpoint ACO for $399
Over 10,000 hr battery life, it's always on. The PRO has some better features and over 30,000 hrs constantly on for $480
https://www.eurooptic.com/aimpoint-carbine-optic-aco-200174.aspx

Lose power in your area for whatever reason and you'll see just how dark it is.
After a few days with no power a light on a handgun and long gun doesn't seem so silly.

 

[BigBL87]

I would question an AR for home defense. Overkill. And I say this as a longtime collector of AR's.

Keep an ordinary handgun for defense, and call it good.

I think alot of that depends on your circumstances, home layout, etc..

In my instance, a handgun does on fact make the most sense for me. Main reason being, one kid is upstairs and one down on the main level with us due to the layout of the house. I want to be able to have a hand free to carry/direct the children as needed. On the other side of that, in such a situaction my wife would hunker down in the bedroom while I get the kids. For her, an AR or shotgun makes absolute sense. She doesn't shoot much and those are easier for her to operate and shoot accurately.

Really, if you don't have children hunkering down and waiting for law enforcement is usually a pretty solid plan if not the safest one. And if that is in fact the plan, no reason an AR or shotgun shouldn't be a consideration.

 

[hso]

Home Defense implies inside the house so a red dot can be useful for quick targeting, but a light will help with identifying targets. Spend the money on a good dot that will withstand you possibly dropping the rifle and picking it back up.

Who else is in the home that might come and go or move around in the dark in the middle of the night?

There's no reason these days you can't put several lights on a remote control either wireless or wired. Wireless can be handy in lighting an area where you suspect someone may be to help identify targets.

Following the standard door/window reinforcement guidance can go a long way to keeping the uninvited out of your living space.