2 3/4 vs 3 Inch 00 Buck For HD

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Can't help but chime in again as I was the guy who did the birdshot tests referenced in post 16.

diclaimer/grain 'o salt warning. My tests are not scientific and it's a kitchen counter op. gel blocks were not calibrated, but all blocks were from the same batch of gel with tests completed on the same day, so comparatively, they retain some validity.

The recoil on the 2 oz turkey load is intense. The only harder kicking 12 ga round I've fired have been lightfield 3.5" slugs. IMO, recoil makes turkey loads impractical for defensive purposes, unless you have the strength to stay on target after shot one. Likewise, the Black Clouds still kicked maybe a little too much for a controlled followup.

The size F was actually lead and not steel and those particular handloads were pussycats. Do they offer any advantage over 00 buck? At 15 feet it's likely a wash. There will be more holes in the badguy with the #F, but at that range neither will increase hit probability over the other and I'm sure both will zoom right through interior walls and endanger those on the other side.

I did an updated test for a different sight where I added Size T Hevi-shot loads and Remington Tungsten Alloy BB "Ultimate Defense" to the mix. The exotic stuff will most likely mess up a badguy at close range, but it's expensive and the el-cheapo sellier&bellot 00 buck will have the same end result.

As an interesting side note, an impromptu test of a 20 ga slugger revealed it to be highly frangible at close range. I would venture that one of them would not leave the chest cavity of an assailant intact. It's likely that it would still glide through interior and exterior walls in the event of a miss, but honestly, what load won't poke through two layers of drywall?

Anyway, that's just my non-scientific impression of the whole thing.
 
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I still have 2 boxes of lead high brass 2s from when you could still use lead on waterfowl.
I have had several varmint related applications, that has surprised me, how well it worked.
For fun indoors, I'm liable to thump a couple of peters blue magic trap loads, on 'em just to make sure they're serious, before I waste any buckshot. then only 2 3/4.

And before you say it, its not because I think sheetrock will even mildly effect velocity. My house is brick so if I dont hit a window, neighbors are fine only close on one side anyhow. I happen to see ability to go through internal walls as a tactical advantage, plan accordingly. I use trap loads because I'm recoil sensitive. And it's more sporting.
 
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well, i got a compramise i normally use when i carry my shotgun through the woods, left barrel 6 loads, right barrel oo buckshot

if you have a good shotgun, and a tight choke tube(like a turkey tube) bird shot would be better, if your talking home defense you talking 10-20 feet at the long end

bird shot spreads about an inch per yard i think it is so if someone breaks into your house and you hit him with 5 or 6 loads at at 0-7 yards, you are going to stop him, your hitting some one with a handfull of lead bbs, vs 9 lead ball bearings, buckshot exsist because it holds more energy at longer range then birdshot
 
(X) I am aware that this Thread is rather old but I still want to make a reply.

2 3/4 inch shells typically contain 8 or 9 pellets. 3 inch shells commonly contain 15. THAT is the difference that needs pointing out. You're putting very nearly twice as many 00 pellets through your home invader with that first shot. Recoil? Who needs double tapped after a 15 .33 caliber rounds center mass, and at home defense distances, your spread is going to be tight enough to put all the lead on target. Also, who's trained at 2 3/4 inch double tap drills extensively anyhow? If you have, you're the exception - not the rule. If I wanted a speedy followup, I'd use a CZ 75.

My standard 870 holds 4+1 of the 3 inch, and it is ludicrously unlikely that many shots would every be needed outside a Romero film.
 
Recoil? Who needs double tapped after a 15 .33 caliber rounds center mass, and at home defense distances, your spread is going to be tight enough to put all the lead on target. Also, who's trained at 2 3/4 inch double tap drills extensively anyhow? If you have, you're the exception - not the rule.
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I've shot 3" buckshot in a darkened hallway environment, and it's temporarily blinding when compared to a low-recoil HD/SD oriented round.
 
2 3/4 inch shells typically contain 8 or 9 pellets. 3 inch shells commonly contain 15. THAT is the difference that needs pointing out. You're putting very nearly twice as many 00 pellets through your home invader with that first shot. Recoil? Who needs double tapped after a 15 .33 caliber rounds center mass, and at home defense distances, your spread is going to be tight enough to put all the lead on target.
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I'm guessing that you are unaware of the existence of LE132-1B: 2 3/4", 15-pellet, reduced recoil. IMO, the perfect HD load. For HD I will not use birdshot, 3" loads, or anything less than 1B (#4 is only marginal). Good luck to you sir.
 
it all depends if you have other shotguns in the house.you don't want to grab the 3 inch shells for a 2 3/4 gun. 2 3/4 shells will get the job done.also,depending on size of shooter,3 inch maybe too much and cause them to drop the gun,etc. think about over penetration issues in apartments also with 3 inch shells
 
For home defense I run 2-3/4" because it allows me to squeeze one more in the tube. When I'm in the woods camping I like to load the tube with 3" staggered 00 / slugs. I live in a very rural area and have to deal with mountain lions on the property, so I try to load with as many lethal rounds as possible.

I might approach this different if I lived in an apartment with nothing but a wall between me and my neighbor?

GS
 
infuriatednoodle said:
Hey guys, I was shopping around yesterday and I saw some bulk double aught buck for sale. They were 2 3/4 shells, my shotgun had a 3 inch chamber. Now my question is, is it worth it to buy 3 inch shells or just stick with the 2 3/4 inch? I've heard from various people that pretty much flat out say that 3 inch shells are total rip offs and are just produced for making money.
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The only 3 in magnum shells that I would ever be interested in shooting are slugs for large, dangerous game.

Otherwise they are complete overkill in your standard SD situation. A low-recoil 2 and 3/4 00 buck is the standard within most LEO circles these days for a reason.
 
I can't find those 15 pellet LEO shells at my LGS. Sounds ideal.

If a 3" shell is blinding and disorienting, I imagine it's bad on both ends of the gun.
 
I've also not found one yet that will keep all of its payload in a man-sized silhouette at 15yards. That's OK for 'critter gitter' work but I'm not comfortable with that for SD/HD uses.
 
If a 3" shell is blinding and disorienting, I imagine it's bad on both ends of the gun.
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Sounds like you are about ready to move up to 3.5" loads for HD. Be sure to come back and let us know how that works out for you.
 
Unless you live in Jurassic Park, 3 Inch Magnum Buckshot is unnecessary for self defense or home defense.

I personally have gone the opposite direction and use low recoil 00 Buckshot. Faster follow up shots, tighter patterns, and no 3 foot diameter white beach ball muzzle flash in low light conditions.

Here are some patterns tests I have done, compare the pattern size of the 3 Inch Magnums versus the 2.75 and low recoil 2.75:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=695148&highlight=Rama

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=727480&highlight=Rama

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
I don't see any need for 3" buck shot loads. I agree with the previous poster who said he prefers the low recoil or Law Enforcement loads.

My favorite is the Fiocchi LE 00 buck loading. It has a full shot up wad, nickel plated shot, and a folded crimp @ 1200 fps. A very controllable round.

I have some test results and some photos at www.facebook.com/PardnerProtector if you're interested.
 
Always lots of back and forth when this topic comes up. What no one has pointed out is how terribly effective ordinary 2 3/4 00Buck is on two legged critters. The resulting damage has to be seen up close to be believed. You can "arm chair commando" a variety of alternatives but standard rounds as described above with a nine pellet load will end the fight at any range under 20 meters. As others have noted you still have to hit your target but if you do your part that standard 00Buck round will stop your offender without doubt (at least that was my experience on the street..).
 
Who needs double tapped after a 15 .33 caliber rounds center mass, and at home defense distances, your spread is going to be tight enough to put all the lead on target.
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You're assuming that you actually hit the target on the first shot. It may be easy to hit a still target at typical HD distances with a shotgun, but how about a quickly moving one in the dark and wearing dark clothing?
What if there are two intruders and you need the second shot to take out another BG who is threatening your family?

It may be worth your time to head over to the "strategy and tactics" sub forum and discuss how these types of things play out, and then pick a load based on realistic scenarios and planning around the worst case scenario (which, based on Murphy's Law, is the one that will happen).

I'd also add that there isn't a load I know of that stops people more quickly than a 12ga loaded with buckshot. I don't think it's going to make one difference on the end of the shootee. But for the shooter? I'd want to retain as much capability for followup shots as I can.
 
It would seem that. #1 buck in a 2 3/4 inch load would be the ideal combo for HD. Barrier penetration if it's needed and more pellets equating to more chance of hitting a critical organ/nerve. But I do concur with most here. I am generally not recoil sensitive having been a goose/duck hunter even in the lead magnum days. Several years ago I fired a "riot" type 18 inch barreled 870 with 3 inch magnum buckshot and my first comment was SOB! Seriously. Way too much gun fun. My current house gun is an 870 extended magazine 12 gauge loaded with 2 3/4 #1 buck increasing to OO buck with the last being two slugs in case getting turned into hamburger doesn't stop some drug zombie. I can't imagine uncorking a 3" magnum in a night time closed environment at all. While I'd be crazy scared I wouldn't be crazy stupid. That said I was doing the books late at night one of the restaurants I worked in when someone tried to break into the upstairs of the restaurant through the fire escape. My office was located at the other end of the upstairs floor and as I walked to the fire exit that shotgun started shrinking in my hand, it felt like, until it wasn't much bigger than a conductor's baton. :) I racked a round and they lost quick interest not knowing anyone was in the store and could be heard falling down the fire escape as they left and leaving their tools behind. And God as my witness, this was in the pre-911 days when I called the police the dispatcher put me on hold for at least a minute. Anyway, that's my total shotgun social experience. 2 3/4 buckshot of any size across a room or down a hallway will certainly deter any further aggression.
 
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I use Brenneke classic magnum 2 3/4" slugs in my home defense shotgun. We live in the woods and it may be called out for bear or hog duty, or even have to do some outdoors duty in which the range of buckshot may be a limiting factor. Since I prefer not to dutch load I went with the slug.

However, to the point of the original question, I feel like 2 3/4" is superior since in my 870 it allows for one extra shot.

3" buckshot might be appropriate for coyote hunting where greater range is required. I feel these distances would not be relevant enough within a home to justify the use of a 3" shot load.
 
2 3/4 vs 3 Inch 00 Buck For HD is a matter of preference

You only have to decide if you as a "Good Guy" prefer to receive "Ouch" or "OUCH" because neither gives more "Dead" to the "Bad Guy".
 
2 3/4" OO buck has been doing a great job of stopping aggression for over 100 years. 3" adds recoil, can reduce capacity and can even cause functioning issues. My HD shotgun isn't even chambered for 3".
 
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