22 Mag

[weblance]

What she wants is something more than a 5 shot snub and prefers revolvers for SD.

off-topic, but the Colt Detective Special and Taurus 856 Hy Lite (magnesium frame) are two small six-shot .38s

There are 6 shot snubs available in .357, and even a 7 shot. Ruger Speed Six series is a 6 shot. Smith & Wesson makes a 2 1/2" 686 PLUS, a 7 shot 357.

 

[BSA1]

O.A.,

Although I take your question being about concealed carry for home defense, woods hiking, camping and just general kicking around check out the KelTec PMR-30;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Of7LiukoMo

 

[Onward Allusion]

BSA1 -

Thank you for the links. VERY informative.

Like I'd said in the OP, weight is a big factor along with reliability (simplicity) and capacity. Right now I'm leaning toward a S&W 351C for my wife. The Ruger LCR in 22 Mag and Taurus 85 View are runner ups, but the 351C has 1 & 3 more shots than the Ruger & Taurus, respectively. The 351C is also lighter than the poly Ruger and on par with the poly Taurus! Additionally, the Taurus 85 View isn't available in the stores or online yet. Finally, the Taurus View only has a 1 inch barrel. I can't imagine the energy from a 38 Special being too much more than a 22 Mag from a 2 inch.

The 7 shots of 22 mag from a high quality snub gives me more comfort than the POS Kel-Tec P32 that she had been carrying. (not going into a rant about the KT's here, but I will in a separate post). She's currently carrying a NAA Guardian in 32 ACP as a replacement for the Kel Tec in the meantime. It's also crazy that the 351C is lighter than the Guardian! Like almost 4 OZ lighter - loaded!

O.A.

 

[XD 45acp]

I have a NAA 22mag I carry when I am limited in concealment. Hey, beats throwing rocks...

 

[Waveski]

Onward - I am a fan of the LCR .22 mag. I took a look at the S&W #%!c just now , and I am favorably impressed.

These caliber SD discussions always bring out a wide range of opinion. I have a friend who firmly believes that anything under 40 cal is a complete waste of time and money. So it goes.

Heycods - Am I correct in assuming that the Ruger in question is an older , pre transfer bar model?

'Ski

 

[herrwalther]

Remembered I had this chart about .22Mag performance. Can't remember which magazine I pulled it from but I believe it was Guns and Ammo. As it shows, barrel length plays a huge role in performance on the .22Mag compared to larger calibers.

 

[Walkalong]

Check out the difference in .22 LR and Mag against 2 liter bottles at 3:30 in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8rAAdhJGd0

 

[jrdolall]

I love my PMR30 but can't shoot it much right now because I can't find the ammo and sure can't shoot 500 rounds in a range visit anymore. My father uses it as his bedside gun because he is 92 and can handle the recoil better than his other guns.

I have a Heritage that has both cylinders and can't really tell any difference in POI with the different rounds. At least not at the distances I am accurate using iron sights.

I know my Savage rifle in 22 mag will splat a gopher at 100 yards.

Caliber wars are always fun! Anything less than a Howitzer in an OWB holster is undergunned.

 

[BSA1]

I don't get caught up in caliber wars as I believe the person behind the trigger makes all the difference plus the fact that we have the best selection in history of bullet & cartridge combinations.

I do take issue though with made up formulas for predicting stopping power that have not been validated by scientific research and performance in the field.

 

[rcmodel]

I sometimes carry an 8-shot .22 LR S&W 317 with CT Laser-grips.

Even 1 of 8 .22 LR in the eye socket, sinus cavity, or COM thorax would make Atilla The Hun cease & desist to go seek out an apothecary for a soothing balm to put on his wounds.

Unless he was DRT, which would be my expected outcome.

And it's pretty easy to put the hurts on a rolling hedge-ball target with that set-up.


rc

 

[natman]

More discussion;

http://www.chuckhawks.com/personal_defense_revolver.htm

Here's some quotes from YOUR link:

The next rung up the power ladder is the .22 Magnum (.22 WMR) and revolvers for this cartridge are available from the same sources as .22 LR revolvers. This cartridge elevates the chances of a "one shot stop" to the 40-42% area, clearly an improvement, but your odds of success are still less than 50%.

The inevitable conclusion is that .38 Special snubbies are probably the optimum revolvers for daily concealed carry.

Yes, it's better than throwing rocks, and yes, it might inflict a wound that's fatal eventually, but it's still a poor choice for handgun use.

 

[Buck13]

Year back I new a guy with a 3 screw Rugger in 22mag., he was putting it up in cabinet and dropped it. You guessed it, hit on the hammer, discharged and he took the bullet in the shoulder. It spun him around 3 times and knocked him all way across the room. I doubt you could convince him of lack of power.

Umm, no. No handgun bullet knocks someone across a room. If he saw the gun falling and had any sense, he was probably beginning a panic move away from it before he was hit, then the pain of getting a hole through his shoulder certainly caused him to react violently.

Imagine if you weren't wearing a shirt and I snuck up behind you and slipped a red hot iron poker into your armpit. Think you'd stand there without reacting? No, you'd be dancing all over the room in pain, without thinking about it. OTOH, if you watched me pick up a poker you know to be at room temperature, dust it off with my bare hand, and slip it under your arm with the same amount (or lack) of impact as before, you'd maybe have no reaction at all, except to say "Is that an iron poker in your hand, or are you just happy to see me?"

If you've seen movies of a running animal shot with a rifle, and it goes pinwheeling through the air, that's because the pain and trauma caused it to give a massive muscle spasm and kick itself head over heels. If you could prop a dead man up an office chair and shoot him with a .44 magnum, the chair might roll an inch or two.

Watch the videos below. Calibers way more powerful than any rimfire move a few pounds of steel a little, as much as you could by giving them a flip with a finger. Your buddy weighs about 10 or 15 times more than those steel plates. How far do you think he'd be pushed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yVyp-ftbTo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MPSDjJQIv4

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

I use .22 Magnum in my primary carry weapon. The S&W 351c does everything I need it to do. It's very light and has mild recoil. I like the 7 shot capacity and the reliability of a revolver.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I use .22 Magnum in my primary carry weapon. The S&W 351c does everything I need it to do. It's very light and has mild recoil. I like the 7 shot capacity and the reliability of a revolver.

As do I. I admit it might well be more "bark" than "bite", but it's got a lot more bite than most people give it credit for. It's not just a 22 with a little more powder behind it.

Now ... when I walk the dog, and my primary concern is other dogs, the "bark" and/or intimidation factor of just having a gun counts for exactly jack squat. Then I switch to something a little bigger (Taurus Judge loaded with buckshot), even though it's not nearly as comfortable to carry.

When I get home, it comes out of my pocket, and the Black Widow goes back in.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Quote:
The inevitable conclusion is that .38 Special snubbies are probably the optimum revolvers for daily concealed carry.

Not sure if everyone is aware, but a low recoil load like a 38 Spl Wadcutter from a snub "Technically" generates about the same amount of energy as high-performance 22 Mags made for short barrels. I say technically because formulas don't take into account the size of the hole and the momentum factor.

 

[BSA1]

“Here's some quotes from YOUR link:

The next rung up the power ladder is the .22 Magnum (.22 WMR) and revolvers for this cartridge are available from the same sources as .22 LR revolvers. This cartridge elevates the chances of a "one shot stop" to the 40-42% area, clearly an improvement, but your odds of success are still less than 50%.

Quote:
The inevitable conclusion is that .38 Special snubbies are probably the optimum revolvers for daily concealed carry.

Yes, it's better than throwing rocks, and yes, it might inflict a wound that's fatal eventually, but it's still a poor choice for handgun use.”

Well first of all they are not MY links. They are links to information available on the Internet available to anyone that has a serious interest in the 22 Magnum.

If you took a look at all of the links they also propose the 22 Magnum is about equal to the .380. The .380 is accepted by many caliber buffs as being the minimum cartridge for self-defense.

There are many issues to consider when choosing a snubbie such as size, weight, grip, number of rounds in the gun, the physical build, strength, hand size of the user, their training, marksmanship skill and MOST IMPORTANTLY THE WILLINGNESS TO USE DEADLY FORCE.

I don’t believe in “one shot stops”. This is a myth created by gun writers and so-called gun experts and hyped in gun rags and the Internet. But if you accept the “one shot stop” theory and the 22 Magnum has a 42% of success with one round, then wouldn’t it be 84% for 2 rounds, 126% for 3, 168% for 4, 210% for 5, 252% for 6, 294% for 7 and 336% for 8 rounds? And if the “one stop shot” is for certain why do most reputable training programs and law enforcement agencies train to shoot until the threat stops? And why do gun manufacturers make guns designed for self and home defense to hold more than one round?

The human heart is about the size of a fist (4 -5”). I can place all eight rounds of 22 Mag. in a 1 ¼” group. A 1 ¼” hole in a human heart should pretty well settled things.

Or let me ask this question. If I shoot a attacker in the eye driving the bullet straight back into the brain there is only a 42% chance of the shot stopping him?

The fact that major gun manufacturers are making 22 magnum handguns are proof that enough people are buying enough of them for the companies to make a profit so in your opinion there are a lot of people making poor choices.

Futhermore due to the differences in ladies, as if you haven’t noticed, are somewhat different than a man so are their needs in a handgun.

Finally sitting behind a computer and quoting data found on the Internet is meaningless. I have said many times on THR that gun and ammo selection should be determined by shooting them yourself into various test media that is readily available to anyone. Things have away of taking on different meaning when you favorite JHP clogs up and acts like a FMJ.

Besides shooting things is fun.

Like I said your pay your money and take your chances. I don't get caught up in caliber wars and put my emphasis on the above criteria.

 

[HellTrain]

I agree with barry the bear- 327 magnum

 

[Buck13]

Not sure if everyone is aware, but a low recoil load like a 38 Spl Wadcutter from a snub "Technically" generates about the same amount of energy as high-performance 22 Mags made for short barrels. I say technically because formulas don't take into account the size of the hole and the momentum factor.

Yeah, the great thing about KE is that it's easy to calculate. The terrible thing about it is that no one can really show exactly how it relates to wounding.

Bearing in mind that these guys make a living selling flat-nosed bullets, I find these essays nicely muddy the waters and create fear, uncertainty and doubt!


http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/55

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/61

 

[Armored farmer]

I have been a fan of the .22mag since before most of us heard of ccw. 35+ yrs ago. I am comfortable carrying the .22mag, and do. It is potent enough to end a confrontation.
Choosing a ccw is about as personal choice as there is. If the Mrs will PRACTICE often with her .22mag LCR, and become proficient with safety, accuracy, conceal-ability, draw, reload, etc......then it is perfect for her. Much better than a .45 that she wont carry and cant pull the slide back, and hurts her wrist to shoot.
You guys know the drill...if you dont think the .22mag is a serious cartridge...then form a line so you can take a round through the kneecap. Any volunteers?

 

[george29]

If all I had in a post Obama/Clinton/Schumer USA was to own just one weapon, I would seriously consider My Ruger Single-Six Convertible. My confidence in either the LR or Magnum round for 25 yard kills (and stopping) a 2 legged threat is high enough to not worry. Mr. Chow murdered a number of adults with his Walther 22 and the diminutive 22lr was used in slaughtering houses for cows and pigs before the retracting slug gun was put into use.
In fact, my BUG is a NAA and I am confident it will do its job if my 640 fails.
Actually, I have to correct myself, if I really had one choice I would probably buy a Ruger BH Convertible 357/9 as my first choice, second choice would be the Single Six.

 

[Stainz]

I started my CC days with an AMT DAO Backup in .45 ACP in an UM's Sidekick pocket holster. It was heavy and unreliable, even with 230gr ball ammo - too many jams. I got $400 off my new 696 ($439) for my pair of AMT .45's... spied a new 296 at a closeout price of $349 - out came the plastic - my biggest S&W purchase in a day - the dealer gave me another $10 off for buying the pair. Sadly, all I could find were belt holsters - it was an infrequent, but ample (five 200gr Gold Dots @ 800fps in .44 Spcl) carry. Enter R. Mika and his pocket holsters - back on with the boot grips and into my pocket! The combo would fit 3 out of 4 of my britches - almost EDC. Along came a similar/smaller 642 (Five 158gr LHPSWC .38 Spcl +P's!) and a Mika pocket holster and I had a 24/7 EDC. Bit of a kick, not as bad as that 296. I needed something lighter - I bought a new 351PD 1/13. Loaded with seven 45gr FTX CD's in .22 WMR and always in my pocket, I feel safe. I carry 7 rounds per poly bottle as reloads. If I need more, I still have the 642... and 296!



Stainz

 

[BSA1]

This is turning out to be a great thread. Thank you to fellow 22 magnum handgun owners for taking time to post your experiences.

After having to clean up the action by removing the burr and waiting for Speer Gold Dots to become available again I was getting a bit discourage with the gun just sitting there unfired. Once I was able to finally shoot Gold Dots I felt my patience had been rewarded and the other positive remarks on THR have validated my feelings.

Stainz that S&W 296 is a great looking Roscoe (all of my handguns are named Roscoe).

george 29 a Ruger Single-Six 22 LR/Mag combo is on my must buy this year.

 

[Armored farmer]

15 rds of .22wmr fit nicely in an altoids 'smalls' tin.
5 rds of mag fit in a tiny spare automotive fuse box.

FYI

 

[Stainz]

BSA1,

The revolver in my earlier thread was my 351PD (.22 WMR x 7). My 296 (.44 Special x 5), which is so ugly only it's mother would claim it, is below:



Ugly or not, it's a great 'shooter'!

Stainz

 

[natman]

“Here's some quotes from YOUR link:

The next rung up the power ladder is the .22 Magnum (.22 WMR) and revolvers for this cartridge are available from the same sources as .22 LR revolvers. This cartridge elevates the chances of a "one shot stop" to the 40-42% area, clearly an improvement, but your odds of success are still less than 50%.

Quote:
The inevitable conclusion is that .38 Special snubbies are probably the optimum revolvers for daily concealed carry.

Yes, it's better than throwing rocks, and yes, it might inflict a wound that's fatal eventually, but it's still a poor choice for handgun use.”

Well first of all they are not MY links. They are links to information available on the Internet available to anyone that has a serious interest in the 22 Magnum.

It was YOUR link, you provided it. The point being even the articles YOU chose to promote don't agree with you.

If you took a look at all of the links they also propose the 22 Magnum is about equal to the .380. The .380 is accepted by many caliber buffs as being the minimum cartridge for self-defense.

So the cartridge you're touting is sort of maybe equal to one that might meet the minimum acceptable level? I'm not interested in a cartridge for self defense that's the minimum, I want one that's good at it.

There are many issues to consider when choosing a snubbie ... and MOST IMPORTANTLY THE WILLINGNESS TO USE DEADLY FORCE.

Which has nothing to do with the 22 magnum, except that I would be more willing to use deadly force if I were confident that the cartridge involved would reliably provide it.

I don’t believe in “one shot stops”. This is a myth created by gun writers and so-called gun experts and hyped in gun rags and the Internet.

What you choose to believe isn't especially relevant. Rejecting sound data because it conflicts with what you want to be true is a poor argument.

But if you accept the “one shot stop” theory and the 22 Magnum has a 42% of success with one round, then wouldn’t it be 84% for 2 rounds, 126% for 3, 168% for 4, 210% for 5, 252% for 6, 294% for 7 and 336% for 8 rounds?

No. The odds of the second shot stopping are still 42%. If you shoot enough of them you'll eventually get lucky and have one that will provide a stop. Maybe.

And if the “one stop shot” is for certain why do most reputable training programs and law enforcement agencies train to shoot until the threat stops? And why do gun manufacturers make guns designed for self and home defense to hold more than one round?

"One shot stop" does not mean that you're only supposed to shoot once.

The human heart is about the size of a fist (4 -5”). I can place all eight rounds of 22 Mag. in a 1 ¼” group. A 1 ¼” hole in a human heart should pretty well settled things.

Or let me ask this question. If I shoot a attacker in the eye driving the bullet straight back into the brain there is only a 42% chance of the shot stopping him?

The "I'm such a deadly marksman I don't need an adequate cartridge" fantasy strikes again. What you might be able to do while standing calmly in front of a paper target at a well lit range is not likely to be the same as you will be able to do under stress in the dark while being shot at by a target on the move. You may not get a chance for more than one shot, which is why one shot stop statistics are relevant.

The fact that major gun manufacturers are making 22 magnum handguns are proof that enough people are buying enough of them for the companies to make a profit so in your opinion there are a lot of people making poor choices.

Finally you've got something right.