22 tcm?

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Sour Kraut

Sour Kraut

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While at the range today during target set ups, a guy asked about my Sig 1911 Nightmare sitting on the bench. We chatted for a bit and he showed me one of his guns, a Rock Island 1911 22 TCM. I had not heard of the round, but he let me shoot it. Fun! Big old flame out of the muzzle, but a tame round as far as recoil goes. Anyone have opinions on the round and what guns are available chambered in that caliber?
 
Armscor is the only maker of the guns & ammo that I know of. They make a rifle that takes the pistol mags. Lee makes dies. The round is somewhere on the 5.7-22 mag spectrum. That said, I got the model that comes with a 9mm barrel. I thought that if I didn't like the .22 tcm I'd have a double stack 9mm. Still shooting .22 tcm.
 
$0.40/round for TCM that is impossible for me to find locally and even more expensive when you factor shipping. I like the idea, but I can't justify the ammo cost for a "range toy".

Not to mention Armscor is the only ammo maker right now and reloading components and data are still pretty slim.
 
Sunray said:
Yet another answer to an unasked question.
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LOL...unasked by? The fact that you didn't ask doesn't count.

My father owned a .22 Jet back in the 1960s. Exactly the same idea, for the same reasons. The TCM is filling the same niche.

Both of those, plus the FN5.7, are cousins to the 7.62x25mm Tokarev, which the Soviets fielded for decades as a military sidearm.

The argument for all of them is about the same, and very compelling. It is definitely something handgunners ask for.


The RIA TCMs come with 9mm barrels for "inexpensive practice" to quote RIA. However, at $0.40/rd for usable JHP the TCM is actually cheap to shoot if you believe in practicing with what you would carry.
 
Not if you reload. I can reload my defensive rounds for a lot less than $0.40/round. And it's a heck of a lot easier and cheaper than trying to reload TCM.
 
Ed Ames said:
LOL...unasked by? The fact that you didn't ask doesn't count.

My father owned a .22 Jet back in the 1960s. Exactly the same idea, for the same reasons. The TCM is filling the same niche.

Both of those, plus the FN5.7, are cousins to the 7.62x25mm Tokarev, which the Soviets fielded for decades as a military sidearm.

The argument for all of them is about the same, and very compelling. It is definitely something handgunners ask for.


The RIA TCMs come with 9mm barrels for "inexpensive practice" to quote RIA. However, at $0.40/rd for usable JHP the TCM is actually cheap to shoot if you believe in practicing with what you would carry.
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Interesting that this is exactly the same idea, for the same reasons, as the .22 Jet. Repeating the same behavior and expecting different results, are we?

It's a niche gun, a novelty, something different. As such, it will develop a following of enthusiasts who enjoy having something different. Nothing wrong with that - I was tempted to get one last year, just to be different. I expect it to follow exactly the same pattern as the .22 Jet. It's real attraction is that it's different, not that it's superior. It's purpose is to sell guns.

As far as becoming part of my carry rotation, it's not going to happen. I'm not adverse to recoil, and prefer larger holes. YMMV, but that's where I stand.
 
Teachu2, I thought one of the big problems with 22 Jet was that it was chambered in a revolver, and revolvers turned out to be fundamentally unsuited to firing a high-pressure bottlenecked cartridge. Switching to an automatic pistol would solve that problem at least, and also make the cartridge more suited to use in a magazine-fed rifle, since it is no longer rimmed and heavily tapered. 22 Hornet has been very popular for a long time, so what's ridiculous about this?
 
Teachu2 said:
Interesting that this is exactly the same idea, for the same reasons, as the .22 Jet. Repeating the same behavior and expecting different results, are we?
Click to expand...

It is the same idea, and reasons, but not implementation. The Jet had issues that came from the choice to use .357 brass as a parent. I had more issues firing three cylinders of my dad's Jet than I've had with over 1k rounds of TCM.

Teachu2 said:
It's a niche gun, a novelty, something different. As such, it will develop a following of enthusiasts who enjoy having something different. Nothing wrong with that - I was tempted to get one last year, just to be different. I expect it to follow exactly the same pattern as the .22 Jet. It's real attraction is that it's different, not that it's superior. It's purpose is to sell guns.
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I bought my first - and what I thought would be my only - TCM as a novelty. Specifically, as an homage to my dad's .22 Jet. At the time I would have agreed with your assessment. As I used it, my view changed.

So yeah, the TCM is a round that people who have no 1st hand experience dismiss as a novelty. I agree.

Teachu2 said:
As far as becoming part of my carry rotation, it's not going to happen. I'm not adverse to recoil, and prefer larger holes. YMMV, but that's where I stand.
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I'm kinda recoil adverse. I sold my .460S&W snubby because I realized I wasn't comfortable shooting anything beyond .454 Casull,which my Ruger Alaskan does just fine. Definitely not the macho "gimme a .50bmg handgun I can take it" guy. But recoil isn't even a factor in why TCM makes sense as a carry round to me.

I like holes. Larger holes would be grand, but the first priority is to make a hole. The TCM will do that in cases where a .45ACP won't. It's the ".223 vs 12ga for home defense" argument all over.
Olympus said:
Not if you reload. I can reload my defensive rounds for a lot less than $0.40/round. And it's a heck of a lot easier and cheaper than trying to reload TCM.
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I haven't had any trouble reloading TCM. YMMV
 
Ed Ames said:
I'd love to see a modern handgun in 7.62x25mm.
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so would i.. but, manufacturers of handguns are all too busy copying one another and feeding us the same stuff as everyone else

but .30 luger just requires a new barrel on a 9mm pistol and if loaded up to +P pressures it can deliver quite a punch at very high velocity

to compare, 30 luger loaded up to 9mm +P pressures will push the 90 grain bullet at 1522fps and 463ft/lbs muzzle energy from a 5" barrel

standard pressure 7.62x25 drives the same bullet at 1526fps and 465ft/lbs muzzle energy

one of these can be made from dirt cheap 9mm brass and be chambered in any 9mm pistol, the other, at best has to be made from .223 brass and you cant get any modern pistols chambered for it.. and with a 2ft/lb muzzle energy difference (remember, this is +P 9mm pressures vs STANDARD 7.62x25 pressures).. then id rather just hotrod a 30 luger and swap a barrel on an existing 9 mil
 
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Ed Ames - can you reload that TCM in a progressive like my Dillon 550?
 
I was reading about problems with auto powder dispensers on progressive presses not working with the TCM.

If I could charge the case with my Dillon 550, then I might be more interested.
 
If the proposed upper for a Glock 19 gets produced, I'm interested. There is a rifle that is out now. Somebody was posting about it on Glock Talk today.
 
The difference between TCM and 5.7 is in the projectile (TCM is slightly more powerful, barely, but has no room for long bullets with cool properties and good ballistic constants). For instance, that TCM going halfway through ballistic glass video, vs another out there showing the lightweight lead-free 5.7 zipping through a similar thickness sheet (and the 40gr SS197SR basically vaporizing on impact). The SS197SR likewise often blows apart into nasty shreds inside soft targets (sometimes not, it's a borderline velocity in the pistol) whereas the TCM expands to a massive .3" or so along a straight path (like you'd expect of a soft point stubby bullet) with a stretch cavity in line with its ~2000fps velocity.

TCB
 
Olympus said:
I was reading about problems with auto powder dispensers on progressive presses not working with the TCM.
Click to expand...

Why would TCM be especially problematic? Calibrate your volumetric powder measure until it is consistently throwing 10 (or more/less as you feel is justified) gr of H110 and go.
 
Problems finding powder-through dies for the powder dispensers is what I've read. I'm not interested if I can't load a complete round all using my progressive.
 
I'll admit it's a "novelty" round, IOW not mainstream, but I have one and like it. It's pretty easy to reload on my SS press. I reload 5.7 too. That takes a little longer.
 
If I wasn't already invested in 5.7x28, I would probably get one myself. I like the fact that it interchanges so nicely with 9mm components (magazines mainly).
 
I want one.

I shoot my 1911 better than my other pistols, having one that's low recoil and shoots super flat (for a pistol) sounds like the ideal woods gun. Kind of like having a .22 mag rifle you can carry on your hip.

Seems like it would be comparable to 9mm for 2 legged threats, but easier to shoot at distance and I really don't have to worry about dangerous game in ohio. I'm not thrilled with the ammo availability since I don't hand load but at least if you got the combo you can shoot 9mm with it in a pinch.
 
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