22lr versions of your carry gun for training.

[R.W.Dale]

I carry a 9mm Taurus revolver (905) that despite its moderate price has yet to be supplanted from my hip or hand by my more expensive guns.

I recently had my 22lr "rediscovery" and as such am reevaluating this rounds role in my shooting hobby. This brings me to the question I pose to you, how valuable do you see a 22lr training piece that's identical to your carry gun in all respects but the caliber and if so what do you use?

Of course side by side pics would be great

 

[Teachu2]

I'm not certain that such a pairing exists. The weight of the two varies, and so does the percieved (and actual) recoil.

That said, I use a Kimber .22LR conversion slide on my Colt M1911 occasionally. I also use it to let a new shooter get familiar with the 1911 layout without the weight.

It's cheap and fun to shoot, as would be a GSG 1911-22. It lets me practice with the same trigger, which is good for improving accuracy.

For serious practice, I shoot exactly what I carry - same gun, same ammo.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Good point but I don't think anyone can argue that getting 20x the practice per cost isn't of some value. Especially for those draw first shot drills with a revolver.

As always a mix of rimfire practice and centerfire is key. And in the case of wheel guns there are rimfire facsimiles that are on par in weight to the centerfire.

I have a vintage astra cadix 22 thats close but has a longer bbl and different grip so it points just differently enough from my 905

 

[2wheels]

I think it helps, I carry and shoot mostly 1911s so when I wanted a .22LR pistol I focused on 1911 style guns and ended up with GSGs version.

Even if the weight, recoil, and size (2 of my 3 centerfire 1911s are subcompact, only 1 is full sized) are different the gun itself and manual of arms are similar enough that I feel it reinforces my training with my centerfire 1911s and allows me to spot and correct bad habits.

If I'm at the range using my centerfire 1911s and I'm having trouble with my shooting for whatever reason, I've found I can switch to the GSG and focus purely on my fundamentals (grip, trigger control, etc.) without worrying about recoil, and after a couple mags switch back to centerfire and I'll see a big improvement. With a .22LR it's easier to see where I'm messing up and correct the problem.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I carry a M1911 (Kimber Custom Classic) and use an Argentine M1927 with a Colt Service Ace conversion kit as my trainer.

 

[CoRoMo]

My wife has the LCR .38 and the .22 version too.

...how valuable do you see a 22lr training piece that's identical to your carry gun in all respects...

I think it is an awesome concept and so does she. I keep contemplating the LCR-22 of hers as a BUG in my pocket.

 

[Skribs]

I think airsoft mockups are better. They make both revolver versions and semi-automatics...some semi-autos even simulate recoil. The reason the AS version is better...
*cheaper ammo
*reusable ammo (easiest reloading on the market, just see if its cracked and put it back in the magazine)
*can do it inside the home, no need to go outside or use a range
*cats love playing with the bbs when they've stopped, it's smegging hilarious to watch them play with them
*you can actually use them on a live target to practice
*no need for hearing protection
*no hot gasses blasting you

On the other hand, some people like to use a bigger gun. Start off shooting the .45 variant of your pistol, then practice with the 9 you'll carry. Start off using hot .357 loads, then use your .38 SD loads. That way, when you practice with your SD load, it feels a lot lighter. Similar principle to a baseball player using weights on their bat when they're on deck.

 

[ForumSurfer]

I love them. You'll never fully replicate the feel of your regular carry pistol, but trigger time is trigger time. There's no such thing as too much.

Of course I have a backyard range and plenty of steel plates, so I have a plethora of 22's. Nothing is more fun than plinking steel for half a day or more with 22's.

I think airsoft mockups are better.

I bought one specifically for some force on force debates I had with a friend who does some amateur level MMA. When we have spare time and can work out some scenarios together is honestly the only time I ever use it. I don't have much fun playing around with it and I have to force myself to practice with it so it just sits in the drawer collecting dust. I only like them for force on force practicing/training. Too each his own, though. The little airsoft tournament things look fun, but for the price of gear and time involved, I'd honestly have more fun just buying ammo and taking another class or attending more competitions.

 

[armoredman]

CZ P-01 and 22lr Kadet Kit. The inset is a young lady who uses both of them equally, and it definitely helps her.

 

[firesky101]

+1 for armoredman I have the witness kit and love it. I shoot a box of whichever upper I brought along at the range, and then a brick of .22LR. Recoil is different, but that is about it.

 

[BCRider]

No .22 is going to replicate the recoil. But that doesn't mean that they don't serve a useful purpose for a number of things.

• A .22 is superb for reinforcing a calm and steady grip with no flinch.
• A .22 can serve well in draw, present, aim and first shot drills. And the first shot is always the most important one. Combine this with a shot timer which measures the time from the random delay start beep to the first shot and you have a way of working on making your "find the gun and get it out" times down to something lower.
• The more trigger pulls of any sort the better a shooter we become. And the lowly .22 allows us to do a LOT of trigger pulls for cheap.

I shoot such a variety of handguns that to have center fire and .22 versions with the same pointing and size doesn't apply to me. That's not to say that my .22's don't help out with much of what I've listed above. They very much do this.

Because I shoot such a variety of guns part of my presentation and sighting during the draw has been modified. I extend the gun slightly muzzle high so I place the front sight on the target point and then raise the rear sight up to cradle the front sight and target. After some working with my variety of semis and revolvers I found that this works out pretty well.

But I certainly know that it is not as fast as owning only one gun or a "matched" pair such as suggested in this thread.

 

[Furncliff]

CZ 75b & CZ Kadet conversion. Nearly the same weight, the same grip and sight picture. When I feel like I'm "in the zone" I don't notice recoil. So while there is a lot of difference in recoil, if I notice it, I know I'm not concentrating.

The 1911 simulate I bought hasn't arrived yet so I don't know how that will work out. I have my doubts about it because of the difference in weight. (GSG 1911-22)

 

[9mmepiphany]

We pistol shooters have a much easier time than revolver shooters.

My main teaching gun is the SIG 226ST, the steel frame in 9mm chambering makes it a good combination to isolate faults in technique. However I also have a .22lr conversion upper, which works great when I suspect anticipation of recoil...or just to start out new shooters. You still have the same trigger feel and all the controls to learn the manual of arm for that pistol.

For myself, I have an airsoft version of my 226, to practice draws at home and also some force on force work

 

[doc540]

Marvel Commander conversion kit

shoot it often, great training piece especially the trigger

.45ACP


.22LR

 

[mljdeckard]

I had one for my Glock, have one for my Kimber now.

I think the main thing to remember is to take in what IS good about the comparison, the trigger, feel, handling, etc. Remember that the extra trigger time is helping you, but don't give up your full-sixe practice completely, you still have to remember how it recoils.

 

[razorback2003]

I would really like to have 22 handguns that match my centerfire handguns. I think it is a great idea to have a 22 revolver that matches your 9mm revolver.

Does game and fish in Arkansas still require a 4 inch barrel on a handgun to hunt with?

 

[R.W.Dale]

Does game and fish in Arkansas still require a 4 inch barrel on a handgun to hunt with?

Yes but with no caliber restrictions. But with a ccw you can carry anything just not activity hunt w it

 

[MedWheeler]

I agree that there would be some benefit. Maybe one day I'll pick up a Twisted Industries kit for my PF9. In the meantime, my Taurus PT22 feels pretty close, though the grip is a little thicker. However, I have not yet made it to the range with it, having only acquired it in the last few weeks.

 

[galena]

I try to keep a .22 RF trainer for my carry guns. Of course, recoil is different but grip, sight picture, and trigger control are the same. I usually start a serious practice session with the .22RF and then move up to the full size. i have a Colt Conversion Unit on an AMT frame for my 1911 practice, a S&W M-18 for my K and L framed Smiths, and a S&W M-34 Kit Gun for my J frames. Extensive practice with the M-34 really improved my ability with my J frames, sight alignment and trigger control are critical. Keep shootin and check 6

 

[Scrumbag]

Am going about this the other way for revolvers: currently looking for a .22 wheel gun then after a bit of shooting that will try and make a more informed choice about a .357.

Of course, I did it the wrong way around with my 9mm: Bought Sig P226 and only just recently been got my Woodsman and I have to say "Where have you been all my life!?!?!" I am sold on .22 pistols... This won't be healthy for bank balance or relationship (combination of spending and range time!)

ATB,

Scrummy

 

[Viper225]

A 22 makes a Great Training/Practice Gun PERIOD!!

I carried a revolver for 16 years in Law Enforcement. I had a 4" S&W 617 (6 Shot) most of that time. I would guess that 90% of my practice shooting was Rimfire.
I conceal carry a S&W 442 Pro Moonclip, and a Ruger LCR-357. I also have an LCR-22 to Practice & Train with. Would you care to guess which one I shoot the most?

My Findings: The real important issue is Trigger Stroke. Keeping the sights on target until the gun goes bang. If you are flinching this can be masked by recoil shooting a full power gun. Using a 22 with no recoil, if you are flinching it shows up in a hurry. Recoil is not a good training tool !! It just conceals bad habbits.

I have Speedloaders for both my 617 and my LCR-22. I also practice reloading my LCR-22 with Tuff Products Model 1022 Quick Strips. Using the 22 Quick Strips you need to skip a shell between pairs when loading the Quick Strip for cylinder clearance. A loaded 22 Quick Strip looks like this OOxOOxOOxO. It will only hold 7 rounds loaded in pairs, however you can put 2 in the chambers at a time just like on a J Frame centerfire. Infact I can load the LCR-22 quicker with a Quick Strip than I can the LCR-357. When you load only 7 rounds index the empty chamber under the hammer when closing the cylinder.

My oldest son has a new Smith & Wesson M&P 22. It looks and functions fine, and fits in a full size M&P holster. I about forgot it functions better than my Ruger MK III. The $38 spare magazines are a little high, but they do feed 100%. I would rather pay a little more for magazines and have a gun that shoots pretty well flawlessly.


My buddy Robert has the Umerex 1911-22 not sure what brand is on it. It runs just like the M&P 22. The German company making all the look alike 22's for several companies has the bugs out of feeding, and function.

I was in a gun shop the other day that had a SIG 1911-22. Again a Umerex made for SIG. Decisions decisions SIG 1911-22 or M&P-22 ???

You can get good when you shoot a lot. You can afford to get good Training with a 22.

I about forgot, I also have a Tactical Solutions 22RF upper on an AR15. It runs very well. The Black Dog Magazines fit in my AR15 magazine pouches. Everything except Forward Assist works just like the centerfire version.
Again guess which one I shoot the most My Colt M4 in 223 or my AR15-22 ???
I have them both set up the same except for the Red Dot sight. Again a great training tool.

My local Sportsmans Club has a Rimfire Division in Defensive Pistol Matches. Rimfire can also compete in BUG (Back Up Gun) Division.
We also have a Rimfire Division in 2-Gun. We are probably shooting close to 50% rimfire. It is economical to shoot.

Bob

 

[coalman]

I consider a .22lr trainer very valuable. Trigger time is trigger time. Recoil differs, but trigger and mechanics will be the same.

 

[spotch]

Lcr 357 and 22lr checking in. Love the 22, and it definitely helps as a training tool.

 

[mavracer]

I consider a .22lr trainer very valuable. Trigger time is trigger time. Recoil differs, but trigger and mechanics will be the same.

Absolutely. Getting the sight picture visual que timed with the proper trigger control is universal in shooting sports.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I use my 6 inch barreled MKII and a old High Standard 4 inch revolver.