.243 or .270 for my first deer rifle? (I'm not a kid)

[Uncle Mike]

To those who don't think that means much... the very low recoil .30-30 is moving out at 2496 with a 130 gr pill. We all know how much the .30-30 kicks less than the 30-06. That is only a 600 fps difference

.

Which is why the 30-30 at 2496fps will then, in your theory, kicks LESS than the 22-250 at say, 3800fps...not! Assuming ALL the bullet weights are the SAME for your calculations, which they arn't.

As said, the 270 with a 130gr and the 30-30 with a 150gr.....

If he is recoil sensitive, the .243 is the round that will beat him up less. In fact, it should feel much like the .30-30 that he can shoot all day

.

This is true...however he DID ask, "which in your opinion" would be best....
In my opinion... the 270 would be best, between the 243 and the 270....

The question from the OP was never the viability between the 30-30 and the 270.

The 270 can actually have more energy than the .30-06, which the OP stated that he was adverse to shooting due to it beating the crap out of him. Why do we recommend the .270 as the best rifle for him knowing he doesn't like handling that much recoil?

Having MORE energy does not mean it will display more recoil...

I did not surmise the OP did not, or could not handle the recoil of the 270... he said he did not like the recoil of the 30-06, which is a bit more stout than the 270... given all perimeters the same.

Does the Op NOT fancy the recoil of the 270... he never says one way or the other.

IF the 270 is too much for the OP... then since he only gave us two choices, the 243 and the 270, then the 243 it is...But the Op does not know IF indeed the 270 does produce more recoil than he may be able to tolerate.

In short, Op... go and find a 270, blast away and make your own decision... it's the only way to be sure!

It is my opinion that you would be able to handle the 270 with the 130gr bullet... however in actuality you may not... so the self test. Just make sure all the perimeters are the same or nearly the same, the weight of the rifles, bullet weights, shooting positions, clothing worn... you get the picture.

The 243 will indeed kill deer DEAD, very dead... but what the 243 will do, the 270 will definitely do better...sans the reduction in recoil.

As I said, the 270 with 130gr bullets exhibits only a very moderate amount of recoil more than the 30-30 with 150gr bullets.

 

[jfdavis58]

I shoot a 270; like a man on fire! Sometimes as many as 200 rounds per range visit. I love it. I've got a 700BDL (wood stock) and a 3-9X by 40 scope. I can hit anything fist sized from point blank to 650 yards, on demand the first time.

Recoil is something you get accustomed to enduring or you quit shooting that particular firearm. Everybody has some sort of excuse for wanting this caliber or that and recoil is often high on the list of things to avoid. Frankly, I'll take a shot or two or 50 from any gun that's offered (and that I've seen fired). And I already own a small arsenal of centerfire rifles spanning .223 to 300.

Instead of looking for a gun that 'doesn't hurt', get one that does the job you need finished and learn to shoot it properly; take your lumps and get it right----that really works----trust me!

Here's another hint: get a good sling-one for shooting, like a Turner. The more the gun is part of the shooter the better the results.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Instead of looking for a gun that 'doesn't hurt', get one that does the job you need finished and learn to shoot it properly; take your lumps and get it right----that really works----trust me!

I just love these inconsiderate and condescending posts from folks telling a man with RODS IN HIS BACK that he's just being a sissy and should man up. I can't figure out if people are just wanting to be butt holes or if there's just no reading comprehension present

Only in 2009's THR

 

[Uncle Mike]

John... while many of us do agree with using a rifle and caliber combination that will git r done... the OP also stated he has an injury that precludes him from using a firearm that produces excessive amounts recoil.(as far as HE is concerned).

You do make an excellent point in saying that one must ensure the rifle is held in a fashion that renders the rifle a part of the shooter.
A firmly held rifle produces less FELT recoil than does a rifle that is allowed to get a run at the shoulder of its shooter.

This also attributes to greater accuracy.

 

[Warhawk83]

I didn't expect quite this much activity. In response to "taking my lumps" , not getting a gun that "doesn't hurt", if i don't get one I can shoot repeatedly it will be extremely difficult for me to move/walk/ and get out of bed for a few days to a week. So, no thank you, I'll take my sissy gun. I enjoy shooting, I don't want a gun I can only shoot a few times. I'm leaning heavily toward the .243 at this point, academy has a really good deal on a Mossberg 100 ATR scoped combo for $299, there is also a Marlin 30-30 for the same price but sans scope. I do want to be able to shoot medium range so.......

Next Question: 30-30 or .243 for medium range hunting?

Thanks, R.L.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Next Question: 30-30 or .243 for medium range hunting?

Thanks, R.L.
__________________

What do you consider medium?

I say 243 because to me medium range is 100 to 300yds and it's much easier to make a 300yd shot with a 243 than a 30-30 plus you can get rifles with much better stocks and recoil pads than 30-30. Beyond those factors Bambi could care less which round you shoot him with.

 

[Warhawk83]

My thinking is right on par with yours,100-300 yds. If it makes a difference the .06 I shot had a synthetic stock. The 30-30 is wood.

 

[scythefwd]

UncleMike,
from the recoil calculator at handloads.com, I have this information. All load data comes from my Modern Reloading, second edition. These are max pressure loads with the fastest velocities.

Bullet Cal. .30-30 .270
Bullet Weight 150 Gr 130 Gr
Powder Charge in Gr. 37 65
Rifle Weight 7.5 Lbs 7.5 lbs

Recoil Impulse (lbs sec) 2.3 3.02
Recoil Velocity (fps) 9.87 12.96
Free Recoil Energy (ft. lbs) 11.34 19.56


There seems to be almost double the free recoil that has to go somewhere from the 270. It is also coming at you faster, so it is more punchy and less of a push. Oh, and actually.. having more muzzle energy, by the sol virtue that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, means there is more recoil. Felt recoil is different, and that depends on rifle fit, and recoil absorbing materials like pads, springs / buffers, etc.

jfdavis58,
I know members of the army shooting team that can't hit a 4 inch circle every shot at will at 650 y. I know former scout snipers that can't do that. When will I see you in the olympics? I would love to meet anyone who can keep .5moa at 650y.

 

[scythefwd]

warhawk83,
I would go with the .243 in this instance because it is a flatter shooting round. You can hunt out the 300y with a .30-30, but the trajectory isn't as flat. If you can handle the .243, go for it. I find my .30-30 very comfortable, and it is lighter than the lever actions that I have grabbed (its a bolt action). DON'T take my word for what is comfortable though, I also find the 300 wby comfortable and my 12 ga with slugs tolerable from the prone. I can't feel the .30-30 go off, I hear it and see movement in my scope.

I'd listen to Krocus, he knows the .30-30 and similar powered rounds probably better than anyone on this board.

 

[hotlead]

I'm gonna say no to the 30-30


Yeah you heard that right!

Your average lightweight 30-30 levergun with a primitive hard buttpad and straight stock only serves to amplify the felt recoil of what is actually a pretty mild cartridge. For someone with injures the 30-30 as most of us shoot them will not be enjoyable.

243 is the lightest recoiling round everyone accepts as a deer cartridge, But if you're not going to take long shots (less than 150) I urge you to look at a .223 or 22-250 provided your state has no restrictions against it. This would take you from low recoil to NO recoil. Plus there's some really light rifles in .223

He already stated he could shoot his fathers .30-30 "all day long".

Sounds like you want a .30-30!

 

[Art Eatman]

I've never been wired into masochism as a lifestyle, so somebody's avoidance of excess recoil makes sense to me.

My little Sako .243 carbine weighs seven pounds, including ammo, scope and sling. The recoil is not at all a problem. I've killed 20+ bucks with my it. That was hunting; I never counted culling.

I've always imposed a limit on myself for distance with the .243, compared to my '06. But, I hunt is wide-open country a lot; moreso than most folks. While I know the .243 is effective beyond 200 yards, that's about my own self-imposed limit. Roughly. (Charley Whitman got a one-shot kill on a 200+-pound man at 420 yards that I personally know of, using a 6mm Remington.)

Federal now duplicates my own .243 load: The 85-grain Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail. It's just as accurate as my handloads. For neck shots and cross-body heart/lung shots, it's a superb package. I wouldn't recommend an angling shot though, being dubious about adequate penetration.

 

[Mr. T]

Definitely the .270

My son went hunting this last year for the first time and he used my .270 to take his first deer at 225 yds. You can buy reduced recoil ammunition for it that quite frankly you are going to want to shoot all day. The reduced recoil rounds by Remington claim that there is no drop in tragectory out to 200 yds. All I know is that shot dropped that deer like a hot rock. You can't go wrong with the .270 sizing it up or down.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Now it's the .243 vs. the ol' 30-30...

The .243 wins this contest hands down...my opinion again.

You never stated the range you intend to operate within, but out to and including 400y, if you can honestly place rounds in the sweet spots at these ranges, the 243 is an excellent choice!

IF on the other hand your going to stay this side of 200y, the 30-30 has slayed many deer at these ranges.

 

[AStone]

So, no thank you, I'll take my sissy gun.
I enjoy shooting, I don't want a gun I can only shoot a few times.

You are very wise to stand your ground. I support that 100%.

I feel the same for myself. No interest in .666 mags and such. <-- joke>

If it hurts, or is even too unpleasant,
I won't shoot it enough to be proficient with it.
Pain junkie I'm not.

And there's nothing - N O T H I N G - "sissy" about a .243.

Next Question: 30-30 or .243 for medium range hunting?

Oh, now we're getting somewhere!

Just taking a lunch break. No time to catch up completely.

But I can tell this is just getting more interesting by the minute ...

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Above I said .243. But Jim Kirk said

Split it down the middle and get a 25/06 and shoot a 110 gr accu bonds!

That's not a half bad plan either; neither is a .257 Bob or .260 Rem.

I've never been wired into masochism as a lifestyle

Art DO have a way with words, don't he?

 

[Tacbandit]

.25-06, or a .243...

 

[orvpark]

243 is the lightest recoiling round everyone accepts as a deer cartridge, But if you're not going to take long shots (less than 150) I urge you to look at a .223 or 22-250 provided your state has no restrictions against it. This would take you from low recoil to NO recoil. Plus there's some really light rifles in .223

I agree, I have taken two deer with 62gr Hollow points with my AR, neither moved after I pulled the trigger.

If you want a larger caliber in the .270 to 06' range you could always do a AR-10. The recoil is even lighter than a .243 in a bolt gun.

 

[mickeydim468]

Sissy gun or not, and I believe NOT! It's just the right sized tool for the job, even for Mulies. The .243 Win is what I bought for my own personal deer rifle. I have yet taken a deer with it, but hopefully this year, GOD willing, I will have my first chance. I have done a lot of research into making my own decision to carry this rifle with me this year and I was overwhelmed at how decisive the statistics were in favor of the .243 Win. for taking deer sized and smaller game. I have done a lot of practice with mine and am becoming more proficient with it. I have even become able to repeatably hit less than 3" groups out to 300 yards. I reload but even my hotter loads do not kick that badly with a 100Gr bullet.

So, My vote is .243 Win.

Good luck!

Mikey!

 

[higene]

deer rifle

Get a NEF Handi Rifle. They come in .22 Hornet to 45-70. They are $200 to $300 ($400 for the Buffalo 45-70). If you don't like the recoil you can go up or down as you like.

They are very accurate and are as fast to reload as a bolt. For mine I have 44 Mag, 35 Whelen, and a 28 gauge shotgun barrels all for less than $400.

Try 'em you'll like 'em.

Higene

 

[falldowngoboom]

Warkhawk, scythefwd had the right idea using the free recoil calculator on handloads.com. Go there and check it out for yourself if you're so inclined. http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

While I respect everyone's opinion here, to say that someone has shot a 270 v. a 30-06 or a 243 v. a 270, etc. is not the most accurate way to gauge inherent recoil of the cartridge you're considering (not saying it's useless at all, just not necessarily the most accurate). You run into issues like was it the same model gun, same weight, what was the difference in bullet weight and velocity, etc. I really don't mean to offend anyone, just giving my opinion.

The issue of recoil (sharpness of it aside--in other words, rate of acceleration of the bullet) is a momentum thing. Pushing a projectile of X weight (aerodynamics aside) at Y velocity will yield momentum of X times Y, which is absorbed by the weight of the rifle and whatever is behind it (you). There's no getting around that.

You can mitigate the recoil by having a heavier gun (obviously not terribly desirable) and also getting a good recoil pad. A heavier gun will absorb more of the momentum while a recoil pad will spread it out over a longer period of time, making it less punchy. I have a Marlin XL7 that comes with a really soft (almost like a gel-insert) recoil pad. I can only imagine that adding one of those slip on recoil pads ON TOP of that would really tone down the violence of the recoil. Something to think about.

As far as cartridges go, I went to my reloading manual (Lyman 49th ed) and took numbers for the most accurate loads of the grain weights I thought of as appropriate for deer in the cartridges people mentioned. I used the max load (highest velocity to give you the upper limit of that bullet/cartridge configuration) and plugged in 7.5 lbs. rifle weight to stay on par with what scythefwd used.

Free recoil energy (ft./lbs.)
.30-06/150g/3012fps - 18.62
.30-30/150/2292 - 10.12

.270 Win/130/2990 - 16.28
.260 Rem/120/2799 - 10.47
.25-06/120/3051 - 14.22
.243 Win/100/2845 - 7.54

You'll need to be the judge, but since you have an idea of what the .30-06 and the .30-30 feel like (again there will be differences because of different guns, weights, ammo used), maybe this data will help you better decide what you're going to be comfortable with for the long haul.

I think most everyone would agree that all of these cartridges will do just fine for deer out to 200-300 yards. (.30-30 included if you use the leverevolution ammo.) More power will obviously provide you with a greater margin for error, but there is no substitute for a well-placed shot.

I also think that you should get the lever gun if you want a lever gun, not because of the recoil. It's a different experience, IMO.

Let me know if you have any questions or if I've been too technical. I'm happy to explain myself further

 

[Geno]

I'll break ranks here and say DO go with the .30-06! Here is the solution: send it to Williams Gun Sight in Davison, MI.

Link: http://williamsgunsight.com/

Have them install their proprietary muzzle break that reduces a .30-06 to the recoil of a .243!

Link: http://williamsgunsight.com/gunsmith_service_michigan.htm (Scan alllll the way to the bottom of that linked page)

NOW you have a rifle that you can comfortably take any North American game.

Geno

 

[nulfisin]

.243 all the way

You have rods in your back and describe yourself as recoil sensitive. Are you really willing to risk crippling yourself to add some power that might be nice, but isn't necessary? Didn't think so.

Make a good shot with the .243. A dead deer isn't any more dead when shot with a .270 or .30-06. BTW, the recoil from those guns not only feels the same, it is mathematically almost (not quite) the same. In ancy case, a hot .270 load will punch about as hard as a milder .06.

 

[kdstrick]

I have and use all three calibers. They are all fine for whitetail. However, if I had pins in my back, I'd probably go with a 223. Your health should be your primary consideration.

Have you considered a .308? In the AR platform the recoil is significantly reduced... it may be an option for you.

 

[Heck]

As a personal preference I wouldn't want a .243. However I would look seriously look at a .260 Remington, 6.5 X 55, or a 7mm 08. I really like the .270 and feel that it is a very mild recoiling round in an autoloader such as Browning BAR, or Remington 742 or 7400.

 

[jbkebert]

I am a huge fan of the .270. Now my only other advice is to look for a heavier weight rifle or one with a reduced recoil system. Not all 30/06 or .243 or anything will kick the same model to model. I owned a Ruger KM77 all-weather that had that pencil thin polymer stock. That thing in .270 kicked like a horse. Between it and my Weatherby Mark IV in .300 weatherby I prefred the kick of the .300 over the .270. We have a 760 gamemaster in .270 that recoils so light that my 10 year old shoots it. He started shooting it at the age of 8.