243 with cast bullets for deer

[savagelover]

Anyone use cast bullets for deer hunting? I'm thinking that Lyman number 2 will be a good alloy to use. 80 or 100 gr with gas checks.
I have a couple pretty accurate loads. Maybe out to 150 yards. Thanks,john

 

[archeryrob]

Been using them in my 30-30, 183 grain, @2000fps and now developing a load for 30-06 and seeing how fast I can get with the ladder rounds. This one is is using ww lead, water quenched and powder coated and both gas checked. so probably a bit softer than you will use. So far I got the ladder step over 2400fps and still got more to test. The cast bullets site had guys telling me I couldn't shoot over 1800 and should probably stay under 1600 and I was like, I'm dropping loading in to GRT and building a ladder and shooting. Worst case I waste some ammo, time and lead the barrel and have to clean it. My groups are as accurate as I can hold it on a lead sled on a fold up table in a farm field. Would be dead deer at 100 yards no doubt.

No info for 243, but I can't see it being that much different.

 

[jmorris]

I don’t but I use them for other stuff I don’t care a couple more cents about.

Volume also counts. If I were going through thousands of deer a year or even hundreds, I might start getting tight and think about it.

 

[GooseGestapo]

.243/6mm and .264/6.5 are two diameters I don’t bother to cast.
The cost of Speer jacketed bullets are low enough I just buy a bulk of them. I have more than a lifetime supply.
I prefer a 100gr for deer. 90’s for everything else.

 

[PapaG]

I'd personally rather see somebody hunt deer with a 243/6mm and cast bullets than a 22 caliber anything. Just me. I'd try to find a gas check mould of 100 grains and a flat point bullet.

 

[JeffG]

Anyone use cast bullets for deer hunting? I'm thinking that Lyman number 2 will be a good alloy to use. 80 or 100 gr with gas checks.
I have a couple pretty accurate loads. Maybe out to 150 yards. Thanks,john

Years ago, I shot two deer with a 25/06 with cast bullets. At abour 60 yards, 120 grain, 1800fps gas checked, hard cast flat point bullets and a dose of Red Dot if I recall. Both heart shots, and both died quickly. By the way, the report of the shot was so low, I shot one after the other, 20 seconds after the other.
Since then, .30 caliber, and .458 caliber cast work just fine too.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'd personally rather see somebody hunt deer with a 243/6mm and cast bullets than a 22 caliber anything. Just me. I'd try to find a gas check mould of 100 grains and a flat point bullet.

Why would you use a flat point, flat now, large meplat type projectile, with a lower BC, in a bolt gun or a cartridge like 243? Makes no sense to handicap yourself like that. Those bullets are for tube-fed guns.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Anyone use cast bullets for deer hunting? I'm thinking that Lyman number 2 will be a good alloy to use. 80 or 100 gr with gas checks.
I have a couple pretty accurate loads. Maybe out to 150 yards. Thanks,john

I haven't, but my Dad did. Back in the late 60s/early 70s. Always had good results. You have to limit your velocities, though, as with any cast lead application, so you won't be maxing out the 243's capabilities with it.

 

[JeffG]

Why would you use a flat point, flat now, large meplat type projectile, with a lower BC, in a bolt gun or a cartridge like 243? Makes no sense to handicap yourself like that. Those bullets are for tube-fed guns.

They can't be counted on to expand, with the lead hardness, and velocity. A meplat does more tissue damage and cuts blood vessels cleaner that rounded or pointed.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

They can't be counted on to expand, with the lead hardness, and velocity. A meplat does more tissue damage and cuts blood vessels cleaner that rounded or pointed.

Okay. I'll concede that point. Interesting it should come up. I was just looking at some of cast 170 grn lead for 30-30 and wonderingif I could put each projectile in a drill press and drill out a "hollow point." Easy enough to do on a flat point, I doubt it would ever be concentric on a pointed cast projectile, so yeah, I see it now. I wonder if those pointed cast lead molds are counting on hitting bone to create the expansion.

 

[courtgreene]

I find it interesting... not bad or good just interesting... that so many of our threads focus on how miraculously bullet technology has developed, and so many focus on casting for every conceivable chambering. Different strokes and such.

 

[JeffG]

The rounded/pointed bullets make it easier to get good feeding in bolt guns. A lot of people started with cast bullets in milsurp bolt guns. I know with my Yugo Mauser my flat(ter) point rounds have to be eased up the feed ramp.

 

[PapaG]

Okay. I'll concede that point. Interesting it should come up. I was just looking at some of cast 170 grn lead for 30-30 and wonderingif I could put each projectile in a drill press and drill out a "hollow point." Easy enough to do on a flat point, I doubt it would ever be concentric on a pointed cast projectile, so yeah, I see it now. I wonder if those pointed cast lead molds are counting on hitting bone to create the expansion.

I have hollow pointed lead bullets using a collet head in a lathe as well as using a Forster trimmer. Almost impossible to center the hole. And, if soft enough to expand, too soft to drive at decent velocity.

 

[archeryrob]

Okay. I'll concede that point. Interesting it should come up. I was just looking at some of cast 170 grn lead for 30-30 and wonderingif I could put each projectile in a drill press and drill out a "hollow point." Easy enough to do on a flat point, I doubt it would ever be concentric on a pointed cast projectile, so yeah, I see it now. I wonder if those pointed cast lead molds are counting on hitting bone to create the expansion.

How about 175 grain when it is back in stock? https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-311-180-sil-gc-hp-3cav/

 

[D.B. Cooper]

How about 175 grain when it is back in stock? https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-311-180-sil-gc-hp-3cav/

If I were casting my own, perhaps, but I buy all my cast lead projectiles from Missouri Bullet Co.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I’ve taken deer with a variety of cast bullets from .22 to 20ga (.578”).
Most we’re running from 1800-2250fps m/v. Longest was approximately 110yds.
At those velocities, most flat nose bullets will rivet and make splendid long stem mushrooms. Near 100% penetration and great shocking power.

On our smallish deer, especially yearling does, I find it beneficial to drill a 1/8” x 3/8” hollow point on the tips of .338” and .358” bullets. Accuracy is actually benefitted by the HP as it slightly shifts the CG of the bullet rearward. I particularly find it beneficial with the Lee .338”220gr RNGC.
I use an automatic center punch to mark the spot to drill. I clamp the bullets in a wooden clothes pin and then in a drill press vise fixture. Most are well centered. They don’t have to be absolutely perfect.

For hunting purposes, a flat nose bullet isn’t as compromised as you think. A .30/30 with a 175gr FN GC at 2,000fps sighted +3” at 100yds is only down 5” at 200yds. And will likely shoot stem to stern through a deer and will destabilize wreaking havoc internally.
I make mine from scrap lead with either linotype or 95/5 Leadfree solder, depending on how hard I want the bullets.
Sizing is critical. I use a .311” for.30cal, .314” for .303 or 7.65mm.
Even my .30/30 and .35Rem (.360”), shoot at or under 2moa with microgroove barrels.

 

[Bull Nutria]

There is a reason that modern jacketed cup and core bullets were invented. They are much more efficient at killing game! why would you want to use old technology in a modern rifle? I understand you just want to try it! But why take the chance of wounding a game animal because the bullet didnt perform. Everyone knows that sometimes with good bullet placement bad things happen.

My 2 cents it is a free country do what you please.
\
FYI I use Nosler Partitions, Hornady Interlocks(RN and BTSP) and flex tips, Sierra Pro Hunters in my rifles.

Bull

 

[savagelover]

There is a reason that modern jacketed cup and core bullets were invented. They are much more efficient at killing game! why would you want to use old technology in a modern rifle? I understand you just want to try it! But why take the chance of wounding a game animal because the bullet didnt perform. Everyone knows that sometimes with good bullet placement bad things happen.

My 2 cents it is a free country do what you please.
\
FYI I use Nosler Partitions, Hornady Interlocks(RN and BTSP) and flex tips, Sierra Pro Hunters in my rifles.

Bull

People have been doing it for years. I understand what you saying. How about the old round balls,the muzzle loaders use. How many deer do you think are wounded with jacketed bullets. I have found a few dead in the woods after season. Like I said,I understand your thoughts.. johnny

 

[brewer12345]

I will go out on a limb and say that unless your deer are small, cast out of 243 is too small. I think 30 cal is the minimum I would hunt deer with cast. You are velocity limited with cast and have to depend on a wide meplat rather than expansion, so I think you need a bigger caliber.

 

[savagelover]

I will go out on a limb and say that unless your deer are small, cast out of 243 is too small. I think 30 cal is the minimum I would hunt deer with cast. You are velocity limited with cast and have to depend on a wide meplat rather than expansion, so I think you need a bigger caliber.

So, what about using a handgun? I have gotten a few deer with my 357,using 158 gr SWC. One close to,80 yards. One shot..?

 

[brewer12345]

So, what about using a handgun? I have gotten a few deer with my 357,using 158 gr SWC. One close to,80 yards. One shot..?

I'd say your 357 makes a much bigger hole so is probably a better choice than the 243. Still a little light.

How big are your deer? Adult does are typically 150 pounds or more in my stomping grounds, but I know they can be a lot smaller in some areas.

 

[natman]

There are three external factors that determine bullet effectiveness: weight, frontal area and velocity. A 243 doesn't offer much of the first two; it's all about velocity. With cast bullets it changes from small, light and fast to small, light and slow. Then factor in that you've also removed expansion. Sure, getting shot with a 243 cast bullet isn't going to improve a deer's health, but while it's possible to kill one with a cast bullet, it's asking for a wounded deer.

You don't want a load that works if everything goes right; you want a load that still works if everything goes wrong.

 

[buck460XVR]

Why would you use a flat point, flat now, large meplat type projectile, with a lower BC, in a bolt gun or a cartridge like 243? Makes no sense to handicap yourself like that. Those bullets are for tube-fed guns.

The OP claimed the use is going to be out to 150 yards. Meplat or BC is not much of an issue at that distance. I do not see the bullet as the main handicap here.

While there is a a lot of noise made about bullet type when it comes to hunting, shot placement will still always trump bullet type. While the terminal performance of a bullet can be important with marginal hits, a hole in the boiler room is still a hole in the boiler room and will result in a dead deer. What a person does after the shot can more than make up for a lack of terminal performance, like with giving the animal time to die and having some type of tracking/blood trailing skills.

 

[brewer12345]

The OP claimed the use is going to be out to 150 yards. Meplat or BC is not much of an issue at that distance. I do not see the bullet as the main handicap here.

While there is a a lot of noise made about bullet type when it comes to hunting, shot placement will still always trump bullet type. While the terminal performance of a bullet can be important with marginal hits, a hole in the boiler room is still a hole in the boiler room and will result in a dead deer. What a person does after the shot can more than make up for a lack of terminal performance, like with giving the animal time to die and having some type of tracking/blood trailing skills.

My well above average tracking skills do not mean squat if the deer runs off the property line, jumps in the river and floats downstream to the next state, disappears in impenetrable brush, etc. IMO, cast in 243 is inadequate to the task, and I say this as someone who has killed many deer at similar ranges with black powder and a round ball as well as a 30-06 cast load.

 

[buck460XVR]

My well above average tracking skills do not mean squat if the deer runs off the property line, jumps in the river and floats downstream to the next state, disappears in impenetrable brush, etc. IMO, cast in 243 is inadequate to the task, and I say this as someone who has killed many deer at similar ranges with black powder and a round ball as well as a 30-06 cast load.

As I said in the post you quoted, I do not see the bullet as the main handicap here. Many folks believe that a .243 is marginal for deer size game with any bullet type. Those of us that hunt with archery equipment for deer or use handguns as our primary weapons during the regular gun season face the same hurdles, and the same condescension. Folks need to know the limitations of their equipment and their personal skills, and strive to make quick, clean and humane kills with whatever they use. Using a 180 JSP in a .30-06 will make for a similar irretrievable deer if poor shot placement is made and the deer runs off the property/jumps in the river and floats downstream......regardless of those above average tracking skills.