30-06 High Primers

[fractal7]

So I am almost done with my first batch of 30-06 for my M1. I am seating Winchester WLR primers in HXP 69 brass. I've seated about 40 or so primers using the RCBS hand priming tool. They all look and feel flush with the bottom but if I hold them against a flat machined surface (the back of my calipers) and look up at the light it appears the primer is a hair high in the case. The hand primer won't put them up any higher. Do I now have 40 worthless cases? If the hand primer is bottoming out what else can I do?

EDIT: So I measured and from what my trimmed length was the primers appear to be about 0.004" high.

 

[dmazur]

Here's a link to a uniforming tool from Sinclair -

http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/11248/Primer-Pocket-Tools

I wouldn't shoot the high primers in a M1.

This tool is different from typical primer pocket reamers. It cuts on the end only, with cutting action being stopped by the shoulder of the tool.

I get primers seated slightly below flush by using this tool.

If I understand correctly, Lake City brass is military and may have a crimp. This tool won't remove the crimp. The crimp might be giving you trouble with seating primers.

Edit: If you haven't actually loaded the rounds, you might consider depriming (with suitable ear & eye protection) and prepping the cases with the proper tool. With a 0.004" protrusion, you might have difficulty chambering those even in a bolt-action. This would probably be seated fully during chambering (with a bolt-action), but with a M1 it could result in an OOB fire.

 

[loadedround]

You are reloading military cases and I would bet that all the primer crimp has not been removed from your cases. As dmazur has said "I would not fire them" In a M1 Garand you are risking a slam fire by attempting to fire cases with high primers. Either fire them in a bolt rifle single shot or otherwise disassembly these loads and start over to be completely safe.

 

[fractal7]

The brass had a military crimp, but it was Greek HXP ammo from the CMP which has the three little prongs in the primer pocket. I used a few strokes of the chamfering tool to smooth them out, but I suppose I'll get one of the actual pocket reamers. I attached a picture of the primer in the case for reference.

As far as depriming live primers, are they going to go off, and if so whats the noise/risk level there. I'm in an apartment and I don't want to start alerting my neighbors.

 

[Slamfire]

The brass had a military crimp, but it was Greek HXP ammo from the CMP which has the three little prongs in the primer pocket. I used a few strokes of the chamfering tool to smooth them out, but I suppose I'll get one of the actual pocket reamers. I attached a picture of the primer in the case for reference.

EEK!

I would not fire that stuff in a Garand. With that much exposed primer you are just asking for a slamfire.

As far as depriming live primers, are they going to go off, and if so whats the noise/risk level there. I'm in an apartment and I don't want to start alerting my neighbors.

Whether they go off depends on how tight they are in the primer pocket. I was given about 700 primed WWII cases. I used my Lee Decapping die and removed the old corrosive primers. These primers were crimped in, some were corroded to the sides of the case pocket. Maybe one in 20, one in 50, would pierce and then I would get a bang. The cats would clear out and I learned to wear an ear muff. The Lee Decapping die is vented at the top and I did not have any pressures issues.

I also had about 700 LC cases were the powder was going bad. I decided to deprime all the cases. Not a single primer went off.

I have 5 gallon buckets of military brass. The fastest and best tool I have used to remove primer pocket crimps is the Dillion Super Swage. http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25263/catid/8/Super_Swage_600 At close to $100.00 this is probably more than you want to spend.




You must remove the crimp before primering and I also recommend reaming the pockets to depth.

 

[ka041a]

I have had trouble with the rcbs hand priming tool also. So what I do sometimes is install the primers with the hand primer and then finish seating them with the Lee ram priming tool which allows me to set the depth with real good accuracy, or else I just use the ram priming tool only as I only load 50 or less rounds at a time. I have decapped live primers many times, due to case sizing mistakes on my part, and have never had one go off. If there is one thing I have learned the hard way, it is to wear gloves and safety glasses. A leather apron might not be a bad idea either.

 

[rcmodel]

If the RCBS hand priming tool is not able to seat the primer fully, you have some other problem that needs to be addressed.

Finishing crushing them in with a press is not the thing to do!!

You are surely damaging the primer pellet & cup with that much force, and slam-fires are much more likely, even though the primer is crushed in below flush.

rc

 

[fguffey]

I would seat bullets/no powder and see if the M1 seated the primers for you or set them off. I would suggest measuring the primer height of the original primers that were removed. I have the Lee and RCBS hand primers, I have not had a problem with high primers, both tools allow for feel when installing primers, there are a couple of combinations that can cause dents (half-moon) but that is another issue, the primers work but for some the dent should not be there, unless someone shows me the dent, I would not know it was there.

Point being, if I had a problem with high primers I could change from one brand to the other, I prefer the RCBS because of the handle and hand placement, the Lee is designed to be used with the thumb, this allows of forces the hand loader to point the tool away from the face. To feed primers I rock it back and then forward.

High primers will not allow the case to stand straight, to measure stand the case upside down and measure with a height gage, if the case will not stand up use a dowel.

F. Guffey

 

[ka041a]

Certainly I'm not advocating "CRUSHING" the primers! It just seems that the rod in the hand priming tool is not quite long enough and the handle bottoms out before the primer is completely seated and I feel almost no resisance in the handle. The Lee ram primer is very nice tool and allows me to precisely set the primers with the correct amount of tension. Obviously, you don't want to feel any resistance in the handle of the press as it cams over. How can anyone know for "SURELY" anything about me or my work?!

 

[Walkalong]

Swage if they were crimped primer pockets.

A primer pocket uniformer will cut the pockets deeper if they are too shallow. It cuts them to SAMMI depth. This may be the solution.

 

[tef]

I recently had similar problems, but with 9mm and 38 Special priming. I also use an older RCBS hand priming tool. I just started loading the 9mm. The first batch used a RCBS shell holder and there were no problems. The second batch I used a Lee shell holder and the primers did not seat completely. After wandering around in the dark looking for the reason for the high primers, I found that the Lee shell holder contributed to the problem. So I used the RCBS shell holder in the primer and the Lee in the press. Problem solved, I thought. Then I found that the primers were not seating in 38 Sp cases even using RCBS shell holders. Again after some blind probing I found that inside the priming tool the ball on the end of the "Pivot Link Assembly" had been badly eroded/malformed probably from lack of lubrication. I emailed RCBS and they immediately shipped that part plus the "Link Follower" at no charge. Received it two days later. That solved the problem completely.

First post for me. Enjoy reading all the info from all of you. Great forum.

tom

 

[ArchAngelCD]

RCBS has a Primer Pocket Swager Kit which will swage both large and small military primer pocket crimps for less than $30. I bought one and it works very well. (no picture on the RCBS Site and they list it for $36)

 

[jr_roosa]

Make sure you clean the old crud out of the primer pocket too before you seat. I use the RCBS primer pocket cleaner for my garand...it's a bundle of steel wires that scrapes the bottom out pretty well.

I second the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager kit. It puts a nice rounded edge on the primer pockets and does a nice job overall.

-J.

 

[fguffey]

tef, you are correct, when forming cases for a short chamber the advantage goes to the Lee shell holder the case can be raised an additional .005 thousands more than the RCBS, meaning the shoulder can be moved back .012 thousands below minimum length, the Lee allows for an additional .017 below minimum length, there is no advantage when using a Herters shell holder, it has it's own advantage.

"How can anyone know for "SURELY" anything about me or my work?!" Not me for sure. I do know if you are using Greek cases and the primer pocket has a crimp it will have to be removed before a primer can be seated properly, I have the RCBS case prep center with a Lyman military crimp removal tool installed in one of the 5 positions.

As to feel, I feel the primer hit the bottom and understand what happens when additional pressure is used, there are freeze plugs, core hold plugs, welch plugs and primers, when the primer seats (bottoms out) the head of the primer flattens, when the primer flattens it tries to increase in diameter, the increase makes the primer hold more secure because a plug is a plug even when it is called a primer, then there is too much effort beyond expanding, at that point the plug could loosen.

http://www.vw-resource.com/welch_plugs.html

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Then there is the NRA method recommended by J. Hatcher, he suggested removing the crimp with a pocket knife.

F. Guffey

 

[fractal7]

RCBS Primer rod

Upon a close look and some measurements - it appears that the priming rod for my RCBS hand primer might be a bit too short to even be able to fully seat them. I emailed RCBS and it looks like this might have been my problem. I'll need to end up probably getting the Dillon swager anyway for some LC .223 brass.