30-30 vs 44 mag lever

[tjmga]

This is a great question. Like others here I have a 336 in 30-30 and a 336-44. My favorite is the 30-30 that I've made some mods to better fit what I think my hunting rifle should be. I bought the 336-44 because when I saw it, it spoke to me (it even spawned a 44 mag revolver). I really like this gun. But every year when I pick up the 30-30 to go hunting I ask myself why not the 44. My longest shot will never be over 100 yds, they are both light and handy. Maybe it's tradition. Maybe this year.
tj

 

[cdb1]

The way I understand it, a .44 mag loses velocity faster than the .30-30. And therefore drops more at longer ranges, and loses energy faster.

This. I’ll take the added range of the 30-30. Plus I don’t have any desire to own a lever action rifle chambered for a handgun cartridge.

 

[chas08]

I love lever guns. I own four different chamberings, .44 mag., 30/30, .35 rem., and 45/70. My favorite over all is the 45/70. Only the .35 and 45/70 sport optics. But my favorite truck gun is the .44 mag. I really don’t know why I prefer it over the 30/30. Inside a 100 yards it really doesn’t matter. I think the 30/30 would be a better choice beyond a 100 yds. but I never really use these rifles for that type of hunting. Both are very adequate for my intended purpose. There’s just something special about the .44!

 

[WrongHanded]

This. I’ll take the added range of the 30-30. Plus I don’t have any desire to own a lever action rifle chambered for a handgun cartridge.

I'm actually the opposite and would prefer the .44 mag. But that's partly because I already reload .44, and partly because I don't see using it past 100-150 yards.

 

[VoodooMountain]

Is the 30-30 really able to reach out much further for this intended use as a brush gun?

From a carbine the 44 drops to handgun.velocity (8” barrel) at about 125 yards and lands about 5” low at 150yards when using a 100 yard zero with 240 xtp bullets. All this per a quick glance at hodgdon.

So the 44 carbine Should be able to cleanly take game at 150 yards. The 30-30 isn’t used for much of anything past 150 yards.

My line of thought anyway.

 

[mcb]

Assuming your particular rifle shoots well out to 150 yards there really is not that much difference between the two on deer size game. IMHO neither cartridge is overkill for deer but I would not call either cartridge marginal either.

I reference Buffalo Bore simply because they are a public source of info that list actual velocity from specific guns.

They have a 190gr 30-30 load that should produce ~2100fps from a rifle, nearly 1900 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, sighted in a 100 yards would only be 3.2-inch low at 150 yards and still retain ~1300 ft-lbs of energy.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=222

Similar they have a 240gr 44 Mag load that should produce 1900fps from a carbine, a bit over 1700 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, sighted in at 100 yards would only be 5-inches low at 150 yards and retain nearly 1000 ft-lbs.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=232

I have shot a fair number of deer with firearms that have less than 800 ft-lbs at the muzzle I think either of these cartridges should be a fine 150 yard, maybe even 200 yard, firearmd assuming you can find a bullet and gun combination that works accurately and the meat-ware behind the sights does their part.

 

[cdb1]

Is the 30-30 really able to reach out much further for this intended use as a brush gun?

From a carbine the 44 drops to handgun.velocity (8” barrel) at about 125 yards and lands about 5” low at 150yards when using a 100 yard zero with 240 xtp bullets. All this per a quick glance at hodgdon.

So the 44 carbine Should be able to cleanly take game at 150 yards. The 30-30 isn’t used for much of anything past 150 yards.

My line of thought anyway.

IMO a 30-30 is a 200 yard cartridge.

 

[Don McDowell]

Out to 100 yds or a touch less there's not enough difference in effectiveness between the 44 mag and the 30-30 to bother with. However when the game starts getting bigger than whitetail and antelope, the better sectional density, and bc of the 30-30 bullet starts to prove it's worth, and if there's a crosswind, and the distance stretches beyond 100 yds, the 30-30 out paces the 44 by a good bit.

 

[CraigC]

However when the game starts getting bigger than whitetail and antelope, the better sectional density, and bc of the 30-30 bullet starts to prove it's worth...

Actually, quite the opposite is true. The .30-30 has to expand to be effective, which means that SD goes away. The .44 does not. As I pictured above, I've taken critters with the .44 I'd never dream of shooting with the .30-30.

 

[Goosey]

The .30-30 had about a 75-year head start and with greater range and similar power it's more practical for the average North American hunter.

 

[Newtosavage]

Is the 30-30 really able to reach out much further for this intended use as a brush gun?

From a carbine the 44 drops to handgun.velocity (8” barrel) at about 125 yards and lands about 5” low at 150yards when using a 100 yard zero with 240 xtp bullets. All this per a quick glance at hodgdon.

So the 44 carbine Should be able to cleanly take game at 150 yards. The 30-30 isn’t used for much of anything past 150 yards.

My line of thought anyway.

That really depends on how you set up your 30-30. If you are able to mount a decent optic on it, and if you use the LeverEvolution ammo, then a 30-30 becomes a 200-250 yard gun, even for deer. However, few 30-30's with a tubular mag and barrel band are going to be accurate enough to consistently shoot beyond 200 yards with confidence. So it's not the ballistics but rather the weapon they are chambered in, that usually is the limiting factor.

My personal 30-30 is a pre-64 Winchester that happens to have a superb trigger. With a 4x scout scope, I've routinely shot 1.5" groups at 100 yards and 3-4" groups at 200 using LeverEvolution ammo. Ballistics tables based on my actual chrono'd MV tell me that 160 grainer is still packing over 1K ft. lbs. darn near to 300 yards. I won't take a shot that far with my rifle, but I wouldn't hesitate to take a 200 yard shot at a deer, or even a 300 yard shot at a feral pig.

That gun has accounted for literally hundreds of feral pigs and I have no idea how far the farthest shot I made with it actually was, but if I had to guess, I'd say somewhere in the 250-yard range. And usually they were running full tilt too. LOL

 

[cdb1]

That really depends on how you set up your 30-30. If you are able to mount a decent optic on it, and if you use the LeverEvolution ammo, then a 30-30 becomes a 200-250 yard gun, even for deer. However, few 30-30's with a tubular mag and barrel band are going to be accurate enough to consistently shoot beyond 200 yards with confidence. So it's not the ballistics but rather the weapon they are chambered in, that usually is the limiting factor.

My personal 30-30 is a pre-64 Winchester that happens to have a superb trigger. With a 4x scout scope, I've routinely shot 1.5" groups at 100 yards and 3-4" groups at 200 using LeverEvolution ammo. Ballistics tables based on my actual chrono'd MV tell me that 160 grainer is still packing over 1K ft. lbs. darn near to 300 yards. I won't take a shot that far with my rifle, but I wouldn't hesitate to take a 200 yard shot at a deer, or even a 300 yard shot at a feral pig.

That gun has accounted for literally hundreds of feral pigs and I have no idea how far the farthest shot I made with it actually was, but if I had to guess, I'd say somewhere in the 250-yard range. And usually they were running full tilt too. LOL

I agree. I put a Wild West Happy Trigger in my Marlin 336 and loosened the barrel band. It’s pretty accurate.

 

[SamT1]

When I was in high school I had a 30-30 with a red dot on it that had Velcro to stick to my dash so it wouldn’t slide around. Shot lots of pigs. The old timers made fun of that red dot, but it was the perfect budget truck gun.
$200 at pawn shop
$5 soft point ammo at academy
$40 red dot.

I’ve just shot a 44 rifle at targets. When I had a 44 revolver in never shot a pig past 40 yards.
I’ve shot a few animals with the 480 Ruger and it smacks them down. Light bullets loaded hot can hit 30-30 velocity from a 16” at +100 grains! Or heavy bullets at mild 45-70 levels.

 

[Don McDowell]

Well I guess my experience with both the 44 and the 30-30 go back to a time when I was raising and feeding my kids game meat, mostly elk and deer. The 44 certainly has it's place, but the 30-30 will out shine it just about every time, and that's probably why that grand ol cartridge instantly turned a bunch of great old cartridges obscolete almost instantly before 1900, and continues to thrive to this date.
While the 44 does benefit greatly from the ballistics gained when fired from a rifle, due to the short and not to terribly aerodynamic shape of it's bullets , the terminal ballistics down range drop dramatically. And when you compare the ballistics from that handgun you shot that ol milk cow with, there is nothing you can safely run out of that hogleg that will give you the same fpe at the muzzle that a 30-30 bullet will have at 200-250 yards.
And speaking from the long experience with both the 44 in handgun and rifle, and the 30-30 rifles, the 30-30 will put the bullet where it needs to go much more reliably when the distance gets long or the winds get cranky than that short fat little 44 bullet. I like them both but the 30-30 is my the one I pick to be the best, and obviously your mileage may vary.

Actually, quite the opposite is true. The .30-30 has to expand to be effective, which means that SD goes away. The .44 does not. As I pictured above, I've taken critters with the .44 I'd never dream of shooting with the .30-30.

 

[Walkalong]

The thread has been heavily pruned, please stay on topic with your opinions and why, and keep the personal crap out of it.

 

[Varminterror]

I've taken deer with the 30-30 out to 250yrds, and the 44mag to 200 - with the excessive drop of the 44mag being the driving force between the two.

I'd also caution folks to be aware of what the ACTUAL BC of their bullets are, before they assume all 30-30 bullets have better ballistic coefficient than all 44mag bullets.

 

[Robert]

The next off topic or snarky comment, by anyone, will get this closed and earn that lucky person some time off.

Attack the argument, not the person. Have some tact and act like the damn adults we assume you are.

 

[Wishoot]

Guys at my deer camp use both to harvest game. Both work just fine for our ranges (between 50-150 yards typically). I have a Winchester 94 44mag with a Weaver K4 on it. I would have no problem taking a 100 yard shot.

Personally, I love the fact that I can pair my rifle with a 5.5" Ruger Redhawk in the same caliber.

 

[BigBore44]

if you need 11 rounds to kill a deer, a trip to the range is in order. with the new 30-30 ammo with plastic tips pushs the range the 30-30 can be used. eastbank.

I whole heartedly agree. No one should need 5 rounds (30-30 capacity) to kill a deer either. But, when you live in prime pig country, and sounders of 30+ are not uncommon, those 11 rounds are nice to have. My avatar was from a day when a sounder over 500 yards long nose to tail was observed. I don’t remember how many we killed that day.

Better to have and not need than......

 

[SamT1]

I whole heartedly agree. No one should need 5 rounds (30-30 capacity) to kill a deer either. But, when you live in prime pig country, and sounders of 30+ are not uncommon, those 11 rounds are nice to have. My avatar was from a day when a sounder over 500 yards long nose to tail was observed. I don’t remember how many we killed that day.

Better to have and not need than......

Yea I have used 60 rounds through an AR on a big group of Hogs. When you walk into 100+ at night 60 may no be enough!

 

[adcoch1]

Yea I have used 60 rounds through an AR on a big group of Hogs. When you walk into 100+ at night 60 may no be enough!

The idea of that many legal to shoot game animals all in one spot is the stuff of my dreams! No hogs here in Western Washington thank God.
To the OP, I went with the 44 mag. Pairing it with handguns I already own made sense, and I'm already heavily invested in 44. The 30-30 is a great cartridge, but having twice as much ammo in the gun is a plus to me. And I use 7.62x39 for all the stuff most people use 30-30 for. I have had a few leverguns over the years, but I prefer my 44

 

[MTNSTRYDER]

Having more than one lever gun is the best way .I have them in 22/44/460 and 30/30. The old winchester 30/30 might not be the best choice but it just fills like it handles better than the others.Might be my age .

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I got a 30/30 and it all I need for Now. But I want a 357 or a 44 some day!

 

[someguy2800]

The majority of deer hunters don't know anything about trajectory, can't range deer, never test there rifles at different ranges, and are rather mediocre shots. Because of this the generally more accurate and flatter shooting cartridge that is cheaper and more available (30-30) is probably the better choice for the masses. It's a moot point as there are barely any in the stores anymore and a savage axis or the like is the new default beginner deer gun for better or worse.

 

[d2wing]

I went with 30-30 rifle and 44 mag pistol. You don't need a rifle for the 44 mag and to me it doesn't make sense. A 30-30 has considerably more range and an expanding bullet has more killing power as determined in the 1800's. That is why non expanding bullets are required for war and have been since the late 1800's. But either will do so suit yourself depending on your hunting range. I could see using the same cartridge for both, especially for handloaders.