308 Brass depth in reloading die.

[AgentOrange2004]

Have noticed that when I decap fired brass, the brass will not go all the way up into the die and seems to hit a specific spot and stops. This is usually about a 1/2 inch from the bottom of the case generally speaking. Yet, other fired brass will go all the way up into the die. The 1/2 inch from the bottom brass spot correlates with the same spot that the brass will stop when chambering the round. How Come? It this normal or do I need to be doing something more than just cleaning and reloading the brass. I do clean out the primer pockets most of the time and will even campher the inside of the case mouth, but regardless, the brass still hangs up when being chambered at the same spot that the die stops. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[rcmodel]

Just guessing?

But it sounds like you might have your sizing die screwed in the press WAY to far.

Back the die out a few turns.
Run the ram & shell holder up full stroke until the handle stops.
Now, screw the sizing die in until it stops against the shell holder.

Now, lower the ram.
And screw the sizing die in another 1/8 turn & lock the lock ring.

Lube a case, run it in the die to size & de-prime it, and don't stop on the handle until it hits full stop again.

rc

 

[JimKirk]

Adjust your die like RC says .... just make sure the decapping rod and pin is not sticking too far down out of the die ... you can break/bend it if it is...

 

[AgentOrange2004]

I run the die down until the of the shell holder barely touches the bottom of the die and then back the die off a quarter turn and when needed, will adjust the decapping pin down up or down. Using an RCBS die now with the adjustable pin and lock nut on top. The pin on that model is very long in comparison to the Lee die I was using. Back to the drawing board I guess. Thanks for trying to help.

 

[Blue68f100]

Sounds like you have the decapping pin (internal neck sizing) not set right. With all of the dies I see the pin must clear the die's body by 3/16-1/4". If set to long you bottom out with the base. If too short you can have problems pinching the neck so some.

RC gave the proper instructions for setting the sizing die body.

Are you using lube? If not things get very hard (stick) without getting a full stroke.

May want to check for Beridian primers if mil brass. This will stop you every time.

 

[Legionnaire]

... regardless, the brass still hangs up when being chambered at the same spot that the die stops.

This is what's puzzling me. Sounds like some of your brass correctly sizes and subsequently chambers easily, whereas some other cases (1) don't go all the way into the die, AND (2) don't chamber correctly in your rifle. Is that correct? When the brass stops on its way into the die, is it a hard stop like one flat surface hitting hard against another, or does it feel more like something is wedging in place?

May want to check for Beridian primers if mil brass. This will stop you every time.

Blue68f100 is right about Berdan primed cases; this could explain the problem sizing the case ... but it doesn't address the problem of chambering.

Can you post pictures of one of the problem cases, showing length, neck, and headstamp ... preferably with primer pocket empty? A puzzle to be sure ...

 

[ironworkerwill]

Might bredan brass be hard to chamber if its not fully sized? What does the flash hole look like?

 

[rcmodel]

It doesn't have a central flash hole.

It has two tiny ones off center with the central anvil in the primer pocket.

You normally can't deprime it with a reloading die because there is no hole for the decapping pin to go through.

rc

 

[Legionnaire]

I'm guessing that a Berdan-primed case would not be decapped, which means it could not be reprimed and reloaded.

 

[ironworkerwill]

What I'm suggesting is that if its berdan then the die will stop sizing as the pin hits the solid part of the head.

 

[Legionnaire]

Understood. I may have misread the OP's original post when he said, "... the brass still hangs up when being chambered at the same spot that the die stops." If he's simply trying to chamber a fired case to test fit, this would suggest that the case is bulged above the head. Still wondering if he is feeling a "hard stop," like the pin hitting the web, or a soft compression, like the case is being wedged into the die/chamber.

 

[TommyD45]

The questions about Berdan primers, decapping rod, and lube are good ones.

Is this brass from ammo you have fired from your rifle before, or is it "once fired" military machine gun ammo? I have read that the cycle time on machine guns can be so fast that it unlocks while the pressure is still quite high and bulges the base. M14/M1A rifles are also very hard on brass in this regard as well.

What kid of die are you using? Is it a full length resizing die or just a neck resizer?

Do you use a headspace gauge?

What rifle are you using? Is it an M14/M1A? Some shooters of that rifle system prefer small base resizing dies for more reliable feeding. Others say it's not necessary.

Tom

 

[AgentOrange2004]

brass depth.

The brass I am using is Hornady Match. The whole problem was with the Lee Die and the pin that is crimped in the nut, so I began using the RCBS die. I have a 308 Savage Long Range hunter that will normally take just about any round I reload and the same with the M-14A1. But for the 308 Savage Palma, it is really tight when it comes to fired brass requirements. If everyone can wait a bit, I will try to take some pictures of a case in the die and where they stick. I have some factory brass, Hornady Tap 308 that I have yet to clean up and will use it for pictures and such.
When it comes to stopping in either the die or chamber they seem to be a soft, but once I get to that certain spot, you can forget going any further but I can force the round into the chamber if I put some muscle behind the bolt a little bit. Believe me gentlemen, I do everything according to the book when it comes to reloading, lubing etc., but this stopping thing has me at wit's end.

I do sort my brass, have the Hornady Match brass and then a box of Winchester Brass and then the Mil Spec Brass which I only use in the M-14. If nothing else, will just scrap the old brass and only shoot new brass, but you know how that hits the pocketbook and then the problem of finding brass to buy.

Should mention that I did take the pin out of the Lee Die and wanted to see if I could get the brass to go all the way up in the pinless die. Same problem. Will be posting some pics later today I hope. Thanks for hanging in there with me.

 

[AgentOrange2004]

You can forget posting pictures. If I can not upload to this site directly then I am screwed. Have no idea of how to post them any other way. So much for my going down and taking the pictures and then even fighting to get the photo's on the computer due to using my cell phone. Sorry guys.

 

[Jim Watson]

Take the decapping rod out of the die, lube well near the base and see what you can do.

 

[Legionnaire]

I have a 308 Savage Long Range hunter that will normally take just about any round I reload and the same with the M-14A1. But for the 308 Savage Palma, it is really tight when it comes to fired brass requirements.

Do I understand from this that you have three different rifles in .308, and that the problem chambering is only with the Palma?

When it comes to stopping in either the die or chamber they seem to be a soft, but once I get to that certain spot, you can forget going any further ...

Okay, that sounds like the brass is wedging into the die/chamber, which is what would happen if the case is over-size.

I do sort my brass ...

Do you keep it separated by rifle? Will a case that won't chamber in your Palma chamber easily in the Long Range Hunter and/or M-14A1?

You see where I'm going here. Could one of the other two rifles have a badly out of spec chamber, resulting in over-sized fired cases?

Still a puzzlement, as most presses have the leverage/power to reform out-of-spec cases. Might the problem cases be steel? (I feel silly even asking that one.)

 

[BigBore45]

Do I understand from this that you have three different rifles in .308, and that the problem chambering is only with the Palma?

Okay, that sounds like the brass is wedging into the die/chamber, which is what would happen if the case is over-size.
Do you keep it separated by rifle? Will a case that won't chamber in your Palma chamber easily in the Long Range Hunter and/or M-14A1?

You see where I'm going here. Could one of the other two rifles have a badly out of spec chamber, resulting in over-sized fired cases?

Still a puzzlement, as most presses have the leverage/power to reform out-of-spec cases. Might the problem cases be steel? (I feel silly even asking that one.)

i agree with this. how hard is hard when you resize the brass? I bought a bunch of lake city nato stuff fired from a machine gun and let me tell you about force to resize those bad boys. i had to do them on a rock chucker. it got to the point i decapped all of them first just for that bit of help. i lubed the heck out of them too. may be the m1a1 is loose and causing the same problem.

 

[Speedster00]

What big bore said. I reload 308 for a semi and it has to be full length resized or it wont seat properly. The LC brass has to be really lubed well to be resized completely because the webbing at the bottom will be really out of spec. I also check all my reloads in a case gauge to make sure they'll chamber. I learned that the hard way a few times with the bolt ramming a reload home and it sticking.

 

[Legionnaire]

BigBore45 makes a good point. While I generally reload on a Lee Classic Turret press, when I decap and full-length size military brass for the first time, I use a Lee Classic Cast single-stage press. Better leverage.

 

[BigBore45]

+1 on the lee classic turret, that is what i was using and i thought i was going to break it with the first round i resized.( im glad i bought a used rock chucker for 30 bucks, lucky steal.) on a side note the lee classic turret press is awesome, my dad is a dillion only guy so he loads on a 650b but for the money i can not see having any other press unless you shoot 1000+ rounds a week.

 

[MEHavey]

1. Screw the depriming screw in/out until the pin emerges ~1/4" from the bottom of the die. Lightly lock it there.
2. Screw the assembled sizing die into the press until firm contact with the shell-holder. Lock it there.
3. Size a case all the way/make sure primer pops out (adjust deprimer screw if req'd)
4. While case is still in sizing die, loosen, then tighten locknut on depriming screw to ensure it's centered forevermore.

You're done. (except for making sure to use good* sizing lube -- NOT 1-SHOT !!! :banghead: )





* RCBS case lube recommended.

 

[30Cal]

Ditto on good case lube and leverage. I can get 30-06 all the way up a 308 die in 2 passes.

 

[AgentOrange2004]

The Palma is the rifle of concern, it is the chamber that is the tightest. The Long range hunter will accept most of the brass that the Palma might reject. Forget the M14 as I only shoot mil spec primers and military rounds out of it.

All the HornadyMatch was loaded and shot out of the Palma. It was all new brass and loaded up fine on the first firing. After that, resizing the once fired brass showed the problems. Same thing with any factory brass shot through the Palma. I have shot some Remington Match Ammo and the same thing when reloading. I did take the pin out of the Lee die to see if that would solve the problem and again, some cases would resize and others would not, meaning that I could not get the brass to go all the way up into the die. I

I may just send the rifle back to Savage and ask them to look at the barrel and such to see if it is all within spec or not.

Thanks guys for your help.

 

[BigBore45]

what ever happen with this? follow up please. maybe a few measurements?

 

[fguffey]

Have noticed that when I decap fired brass, the brass will not go all the way up into the die and seems to hit a specific spot and stops. This is usually about a 1/2 inch from the bottom of the case generally speaking. Yet, other fired brass will go all the way up into the die.

I have shell holders that have a deck height of .125" meaning 'normally' there is no way to size the bottom .125" of the case and all of my dies have a radius opening meaning there is no way I can size my cases the bottom .125" + the radius.

I have cases that have a case head thickness of .200", I also have case heads with a case head thickness of .260" meaning there is no advantage to sizing the chase head if it does not expand. I can expand the complete case head, all is necessary is too much powder or a bullet that is too large in diameter or when I am testing a suspect receiver.

I picked up another one of those, I was told it was a 308 W, the rifle looks like an Argentine Model 91 and then? It gets worst.

If the 1/2 inch refers to the die above the shell holder you are almost neck sizing.

When My die do not make it to the shell holder the case whipped my press because it had more resistance to sizing than my press can overcome. And I determine 'by how much'. I get a stronger press or change the lube. Then there are all those cases that have been fired in a machine gun. I just acquired some WCC 308 W cases with original primers, I am hoping they are a challenge to size.

F. Guffey