308 win vs 30-06 for hunting

[Kachok]

^^^craziest exit wound i've ever seen.
ok, so that was a 30-06 165grain Sierra Game King. I'm curious as to the range that shot was at roughly, and what is the estimated FPS of your load?

57gr IMR 4350 loaded to 3.290" with a CCI primer and Remington Brass aka the "Bryan Special" because my brother wanted something that leaves big exit wounds I load them just for him. Speed is supposed to be 2830fps but I have not tested in that rifle, range was only about 45yds. Absolutely the most devastating thing I have ever loaded, probably much better suited to mule deer or big bodied northern bucks but simply too much damage for a 120lbs southern whitetail IMHO, as is the 30-06 in general.
The only thing that makes that even remotely suitable for meat hunting is that the impact speeds are almost reasonable so we get very little gunshot meat around the actual hole, problem is the actual hole is the size of a bowing ball, Game Kings seem to go in about 3" before expanding violently so if you shoot them at the base of the neck the onside shoulder won't loose anything, with the offside shoulder you can write it off if it is in the path of this monster. As violently as these expand I am a little surprised I have not recovered one from an off angle shot yet, all have exited with an authority, still no sign of any core/jacket separation, these appear to be a little tougher then their internet reputation would imply.

 

[sargents1]

Finally got it working, this is why I say the full powered 30-06 is excessive for whitetail.
If this were a unique case of striking heavy bone on exit that would be one thing, but every time this leaves a crater in it's wake on our smallish southern whitetail.
Caution Graphic.
Lengthwise that is the size of my size 9 1/2 boot, that should give you some scale. On the upside we have not needed to track anything this year but the freezers are still a little empty. LOL

Great Googly-moogly! It looks like you shot that thing with a .50 BMG!

I shot a skipper (maybe 90lbs) a few years back with an '06 quartering at about 50yds and the exit wound was almost the size of a baseball. I thought that was pretty impressive...but that photo of yours takes the cake.

 

[Abel]

Looks like you're loading those Game Kings real hot. 2750-2800 is their sweet spot. Looks like you're at 2950 or so?

 

[Kachok]

Looks like you're loading those Game Kings real hot. 2750-2800 is their sweet spot. Looks like you're at 2950 or so?

With 57gr of 4350?!?!? No way! That is a 2800fps load in any manual I have seen. I CAN get them just north of 3,000fps with a compressed load of RL22 but as you can see I don't think that is needed, not even a little bit.
The fastest I ever push Game Kings is 3160ish fps in the 270 WSM and I only time that one comes out the case when I know I am going to be shooting 200yd+

 

[H&Hhunter]

kachok,

I've seen similar exit wounds with a .25-06 or a .270 heck even a .243 will blow them up like that if hit major bone on a small deer with an explosive bullet.

 

[Art Eatman]

Aw, you get that 165 HPBT cranked up, and yeah, it will make a mess. Any of the Sierra flat-based bullets are a bit tougher construction. They expand nicely, but don't come all apart.

The 165s work okay after they've slowed down a bit; good load for way-out-there deer.

The Federal Premium High Energy cartridges use that 165. 3,150 from a 26" '06 barrel. I made a 40-yard cross-body chest shot on a coyote, one time. Yuck. Instant three-pound weight loss.

 

[303tom]

Good luck finding .308, but the shelves are full of .30-06...............

 

[Rem700CDLSF3006]

had both I just feel the favor the 30-06

 

[Andrew Leigh]

It should be noted though that at full power the 06 can be simply too destructive on deer at close range, I have pictures of what mine does to whitetail that I am having fits trying to upload. Have a good 7"x10" chunk of shoulder/back/neck blow off that deer. I like venison alot so I don't deer hunt with the 06, I could if I would make a reduced load for it, but I have other rifles that fill that bill better anyway such as the 6.5x55 and 7mm-08.

I have the opposite experience with my 30-06. Kudu at 60yds taken behind the should and a .75" exit wound, same with Impala. I use 180gr. Accubonds and chase the bullets at 2615 fps.

The 6.5X55mm would be a real sweet choice though, especially if you reload.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Andrew,

Same here. I also use a quality 180 gr bullet at about 2650 in an 06. I get almost zero meat loss. Brusing is very minimal.

 

[Kachok]

I have the opposite experience with my 30-06. Kudu at 60yds taken behind the should and a .75" exit wound, same with Impala. I use 180gr. Accubonds and chase the bullets at 2615 fps.

The 6.5X55mm would be a real sweet choice though, especially if you reload.

Oh I do reload and the 6.5x55 is my baby, I use that one more then the rest of them put together. Minimal meat damage, flat shooting, deadly accurate, does not ring my ears to shoot, and the recoil is so light I get to watch them drop through the scope. If you could dream up a more perfect combination then that you let me know about it

 

[kludge]

For 400 yards on elk I would go a little bigger -- to the .338-06 or .35 Whelen. 300 yards?, yes the .30-06 is fine, and I would use a 200-220gr bullet.

 

[Sav .250]

This same question seems to come up every so often. To me there is no wrong answer. I`d go with the 30-06. Plus, you can get more different loads with it.

 

[Slamfire]

I have been day dreaming about an Alaskan hunting trip and it may come down to a coin toss of whether I take a 308 or a 30-06.

The difference between them, out to 600 yards, not that much.

And I don’t plan shooting at anything past 300 yards.

 

[The_Armed_Therapist]

Any .308 factory load will take Elk fairly easily. However, for hunting, I greatly prefer the .30-06. It's MUCH more versatile, and there are a lot more hunting options available than .308, which is largely a military ball market. I'm pretty sure you can purchase .30-06 from 55 grains to 220 grains. Hard to beat! Also, .30-06 is everywhere, .308 is nowhere. While .308 was slightly cheaper (the hunting stuff was about the same, though) before the panic, I doubt it'll still be cheaper a year from now.

 

[Art Eatman]

A double-ought buck and five grains of pistol powder in an '06 makes a great squirrel load.

 

[moonzapa]

Very impressive photo...I remember hunting wild hogs in the Palo Dura Canyon, Texas, a few years ago. I was night hunting with a Weatherby Ultra Light in .280 Remington loaded with 154 Grain Hornady's. I shot a medium size pig, a quartering angle shot at an estimated 110 yards. When field dressing this pig the entire front end of the carcass was a mushy mess. I only got the back strap and the hams. The load I was using consisted of 51.7 grains of IMR-4831, Hornady 154 SP bullet, WLR primers, seated to the LANS. I didn't think this was a hot load but it sure messed that pig up. I never chronied this load but it should have clocked around 2750 fps or so. This load was taken from the Hornady Handbook. Go figure...

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I vote .30-06, no question. I live in Montana & just happen to hunt elk here also. When I encounter a deer at 45 yards, I just rise up & shout BOO!! at it. Usually scares 'em to death right there. Or neck shoot 'em.

I did take a buck antelope with it once upon a time. I have no idea how that happened though, the range was obviously beyond what the gun can do. Anyway, it was beyond what the Bushnell 800 rangefinder could find. Of course, that 800 yards is with a highly reflective surface, not hair. Later, when it was possible to laze the pickup from where the shot was taken, it said it was 470 yards. But you know how those ole rangefinders lie.

900F

 

[HKGuns]

Flip a coin.....literally.

My primary deer rifle is .308 and my backup is 30-06. My primary is my primary because it is synth & Stainless. My backup is blued. I'd not have trouble reversing their roles based on caliber. I have ZERO issues finding great hunting loads commercially available in .308 or 30-06.

this is why I say the full powered 30-06 is excessive for whitetail.

Huh? #1 That deer looks about as big as my black lab. #2 Why would you take that shot and put it where you did on a deer that size? I've shot deer and seen deer shot with both rounds and never saw damage like that at any time. I'd blame the shooter for that and not the ammunition. But you're right, if you're shootin' lab sized deer you might want to move down in caliber to something like .22 short!

 

[303tom]

Finally got it working, this is why I say the full powered 30-06 is excessive for whitetail.
If this were a unique case of striking heavy bone on exit that would be one thing, but every time this leaves a crater in it's wake on our smallish southern whitetail.
Caution Graphic.
Lengthwise that is the size of my size 9 1/2 boot, that should give you some scale. On the upside we have not needed to track anything this year but the freezers are still a little empty. LOL

What were you using, explosive tip rounds ?

 

[Kachok]

^ You would think so, no just regular ol Serrias, 100+ year old cup and core technology delivered with a hella strong punch on smallish Alabama whitetails at close range. That is why I like my sissy kickers they don't do anything like that. 264 cal or 7mm hole in, 2" hole out and about a 6" wide wound track in between, works like a charm, does not make for interesting pictures but it fills the freezer just fine.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Alaska

In my 12 years in Alaska, I saw a lot more aught six hunting rifles than .308.

Aught six with a 220 gr rn is favored by quite a few people up there.

 

[natman]

It should be noted though that at full power the 06 can be simply too destructive on deer at close range, I have pictures of what mine does to whitetail that I am having fits trying to upload. Have a good 7"x10" chunk of shoulder/back/neck blow off that deer.

Could it be that you're using Ballistic Tips / match bullets or some other too fragile bullet?

 

[GooseGestapo]

As a retired game-warden, I can vouch that ANY .308 or .30/06 with a 165-180gr bullet can do such damage to deer. BTW a Hornady 180gr flat-base over 60gr of RL22 at 2,800fps is even WORSE than that !!! Ha! Ask me how I know!!!

I did the exact same thing to the second deer I shot in 1978 with a 165gr GameKing (before they were called that) Boat tail Hollow point. The hunting bullet not the match bullet.
Load was 56.5gr of IMR4350, Fed210 primer, and Norma case. Chrono'd with an old chrono that use the foil and paper screens was 2,775fps. I really liked (and still do) that load from '06's.

FWIW; my younger brother uses a pre-64 Win Mod-70 feather weight in .308.
His load of a 150gr Nosler Partition runs just over 2,900fps m/v from his 22" bbl. Two different chrono's two different occasions....

He's taken over 50 whitetails, a dozen muley's and about the same number of elk with it. He's tried 165's but prefers the "explosive" expansion of the 150's as they do less damage than the deeper penetrating 165's on the smaller animals...according to him
He's only recovered one bullet from an elk, a very large cow... And is was just under the hide.
You can't go wrong with either cartridge. (same caliber, by the way for you non-reloaders).

But, after 50yrs of using both, I still prefer the '06.... I "only" took two deer this year with the '06... a Colt Lt. Rifle w/24" bbl. One was with a 150gr Rem. Corlokt @2,850fps (50.0gr IMR4064) and the other a PrviPartisan 165gr PtSpt over 57.0gr RL17 for just under 3,000fps. It did the same thing as the photo of the 165GameKing results...... Only the bullet cost 1/2 as much. (but only 1/2 as accurate as the Sierra! 1.0moa vs. 0.5moa or better for the Sierra's).
With a similar bullet placement on the photo deer, the 150gr CorLokt bullet did far less damage and was recovered just under the hide, in the classic "deadliest mushroom in the woods"...

I suggest you drop down to a 150gr bullet for less damage.... and slow it down, too... In other words... Make a .308 out of the '06 for "mere deer"...

 

[MCgunner]

I like the .308 for two reasons. First, the handy little Remington M7 I own that came in the caliber. Also, .308 is one of those calibers that just seems inherently accurate, easy to load for. Nothing against the .30-06, has plenty of fanboys out there, but if I'm going to get a long action heavy gun, I'll get it in a belted magnum which costs the same. I have a 7 mag I never use much anymore, though, as I no longer have a lease in the trans-pecos and haven't hunted new Mexico's mountains in 20 years. The .308 is kinda overkill on the woods and brush deer I hunt, but it kills 'em pretty danged dead and it shoots 3/4 MOA. I have confidence in the gun, is about my favorite. It's also a great hog gitter. I've taken a coyote at 370 yards with it, my longest shot.

I shoot 150 Nosler BTs in my .308 at near 2800 fps and have no issues with either meat damage or penetration. Great bullet at this velocity IMHO. When I first got the gun, I worked up a load for the 140 Barnes X bullet, but decided after multiple deer and hogs, I really didn't need worry about the BTs. They work great and they're quite accurate.