CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Which serves what purpose, other than burning more powder and producing more recoil?
308 win vs 30-06 for hunting
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Pointshoot
Member
CB900F said:
"Fella's;
I vote .30-06, no question. I live in Montana & just happen to hunt elk here also. When I encounter a deer at 45 yards, I just rise up & shout BOO!! at it. Usually scares 'em to death right there. Or neck shoot 'em. . . .
900F"
Gotta agree with 900f when it comes to deer. I don't even bother to load the rifle when going after those puny things. I just club them with the empty rifle (old milsurp rifles are great - very tough, heavy, & cheap to replace. Perfect as clubs.) Even more challenging than bowhunting.
Either 308 or -06 will do fine on deer. If you dont reload, in our part of the country 30-06 ammo still is plentiful on the shelves. Less so for all kinds of 308. They only seem to have the stuff that must be gold plated for what they charge for it. That might make a difference for some people.
"Fella's;
I vote .30-06, no question. I live in Montana & just happen to hunt elk here also. When I encounter a deer at 45 yards, I just rise up & shout BOO!! at it. Usually scares 'em to death right there. Or neck shoot 'em. . . .
900F"
Gotta agree with 900f when it comes to deer. I don't even bother to load the rifle when going after those puny things. I just club them with the empty rifle (old milsurp rifles are great - very tough, heavy, & cheap to replace. Perfect as clubs.) Even more challenging than bowhunting.
Either 308 or -06 will do fine on deer. If you dont reload, in our part of the country 30-06 ammo still is plentiful on the shelves. Less so for all kinds of 308. They only seem to have the stuff that must be gold plated for what they charge for it. That might make a difference for some people.
Kachok
Member
Why would I want my 180s at 2800fps rather then 2700fps? Mabey I want a little flatter shooting highly versatile 180gr load that expands better at range and drifts less, sure it is no 2950fps 300 Win Mag but it kicks alot less too, bottom line is it is still a great compromise, not ideal for anything but really good at everything. I could make a good case for the 308 too, but I can make a GREAT case for owning both
Kachok said:
As someone who owns five rifles chambered for .308 Win I've never been that interested in a .30-06. I figured that .300 WSM and/or .300 Win Mag makes the .30-06 redundant so I went that route along with .338 LM, .375 H&H and .458 Lott to fill out the top end.
That is a very accurate statement. The problem is that I started with a 30-06 and got into the 308 late in my shooting/hunting career. Truth is there is nothing I'd hunt with one and not the other. But I already have several 30-06 rifles that have too much sentimental significance to part with.
With my 308 handloads I can duplicate 30-06 factory perfrormance, and do it with better accuracy, less recoil and with a lighter trimmer rifle. I've really come to appreciate the 308 round.
As well as the new 300 WSM. I think it is a great round. It gives me 98% of the 300 Win mags velocity from a 308 sized rifle with recoil comparble to hot 30-06 loads.
I ain't selling my 30-06 rifles, but if starting over today probably wouldn't buy one.
savanahsdad
Member
Hey .. jmr40: put a muzzle brake on that 300WSM and you will forget it's not your 308, I put a brake on my 7mmWSM and it feels like my 270's,
Kachok
Member
I don't think owning a 308/30-06/300 magnum would be redundant, in fact I plan on doing just that eventually. 308 for hunting in the woods, let's face it you don't need more then 2800fps inside 200yds ever. 30-06 for hunting larger food plots or slightly more open country the heavier higher BC bullets come into play here without being too drastically overpowered for 80yd shots should they walk out on you up close. And the 300 for throwing heavy lead across a large peanut field. Besides you can never own too many good rifles IMHO. I am not a diehard 30 caliber guy but I do like them alot, and despite the fact that my favorite rifle is a sissy kicker I can comfortably handle quite a bit of recoil. Could you get by with the 308 and 300 skipping the 06....sure but it makes for a dandy rifle so why if you have the $$$ and to be quite honest I have never taken a deer that I could not have taken with my 308, so you could say anything else is "redundant"
MCgunner
Member
Non-issue for me. I've never bought, nor have I ever fired a factory load in my .308. And, when times get better (if Hillary ain't elected), that very popular .308 will be back on the shelves.
MCgunner
Member
Cars can kill deer, so long as they can run 55 mph and have a horn and headlights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdApyFlf6DU
Kachok
Member
Great thing about both 30-06 and 308 there are a WHOLE BUNCH of people who don't reload for them, I get all the 06 and 308 brass I could ever use for free. Get plenty of 270, 7mm Rem Mag and 243 too just not as much as 308 and 06.
Kachok said:
If you feel that there's enough of a distinction between the three then why not. We all like rifles and surely wouldn't begrudge someone for adding to their collection. Personally I don't think there's enough daylight between the three cartridges so would rather add rifles either side of .308 Win and .300 Win Mag. I have a .375 H&H and am looking at the possibility of adding a .257 Roberts. If I had to pick one rifle/cartridge combination for all around hunting it would be a Kimber Montana in .308 Win ... done!!
MCgunner
Member
Got a couple hundred rounds of .308 milsurp when i first got the gun and dies. I don't know if I'll ever wear that stuff out, thick as it is.
Haven't seen milsurp brass around for some time, wonder if the commander in chief ordered it melted down so civilians couldn't get it or something? Kachok
Member
I get alot of 7.62x51 from individuals, yeah it is thick and will probably outlast me. I am a brass hoarder, I have a bunch sorted/cleaned stashed away in garbage bags and Folgers jugs. I will probably never wear them all out, guess I keep stashing them away in case a friend ever gets into reloading or something, know a bunch of people who shoot but I don't have a single friend in real life who reloads, had to teach myself.
BTW 1858 I consider anything 100fps or over difference with the same bullets to be a noticeable difference, besides the 06 and 308 have very different personalities, not sure if that is all of them but mine do, 308 likes stubby little 150s at modest (2700ish fps) speeds, which works out great for a woods rifle, and my 06 likes them a little longer, heavier and even poly tipped boat tails at considerably higher speeds (165s at 2832 and 2900fps), very very different shooting rifles
BTW 1858 I consider anything 100fps or over difference with the same bullets to be a noticeable difference, besides the 06 and 308 have very different personalities, not sure if that is all of them but mine do, 308 likes stubby little 150s at modest (2700ish fps) speeds, which works out great for a woods rifle, and my 06 likes them a little longer, heavier and even poly tipped boat tails at considerably higher speeds (165s at 2832 and 2900fps), very very different shooting rifles
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Kachok said:
There probably isn't a whole lot I couldn't do with a .308 Win and a 150gr TTSX at 2,820fps or a 168gr TTSX at 2,680fps .... more than enough for most critters out past 500 yards. If I need the extra range and energy I could step up to the .300 WSM and a 165gr TTSX at 3,130fps ... about the same energy at 500 yards as the .308 Win at 300 yards. That's my idea of a "noticeable difference".
I'm not sure an animal in the lower 48 would know the difference between a .308 or 30-06 at any range. but it may provide the shooter with just a bit more confidence to make the shot. That could be both good or bad depending on the skill of the shooter.
Dr T
Member
Having both, I am in the 6 of one/half dozen of the other group.
My pet load for the 06 is a 180 gr. Hornady FBSP chronographed at 2650 fps out of a 20 inch barrel in a Ruger #1 RSI. It is a reliable, accurate bullet (and not particularly expensive). It is not particularly destructive of meat. However, you do need to hit the deer in the right spot.
I tend to like 165 gr bullets for the 308. My 308's with the 165s tend to kick less than my 30-06 with the 180s.
My pet load for the 06 is a 180 gr. Hornady FBSP chronographed at 2650 fps out of a 20 inch barrel in a Ruger #1 RSI. It is a reliable, accurate bullet (and not particularly expensive). It is not particularly destructive of meat. However, you do need to hit the deer in the right spot.
I tend to like 165 gr bullets for the 308. My 308's with the 165s tend to kick less than my 30-06 with the 180s.
John nailed the single most notable factor, that being, bullet construction.
The deer that I shot this year with Hornady's SuperFormance SST ammunition dropped literally without a step, that from a .308 Win with 150 grain SST, and from a .270 Win with a 130 grain SST. Both deer were shot at just over 200 yards. There was no exit wound on either. In both cases, not only was a follow-up shot not needed, they dropped so fast it wasn't possible. Autopsy of both deer revealed about a 0.5" entrance wound, and minimal meat damage. On both deer, the near-side lung and the heart were literally "liquified". I mean, liquid! There may have been 1, 1" chunk. I mean, liquid. The far side-lung was 100% in-tact, on both deer.
Both of these deer dropped faster than any other game animal that I have shot at similar distances (deer, hog, ram) shot by any of my other firearms cartridges, including 6mm Rem, .257 Wea Mag, .300 Win Mag, .300 Wea Mag, even the .375 H&H, .444 Marlin and .45-70 Gov't. For my purposes, the .308 and the .30-06 are now officially co-equals, thanks to Hornady's SST and GMX offerings. Select the proper projectile, and you're good with either. Use an SST for an immediate "one-'shock'-kill", use a GMX for complete penetration regardless of angle or distance to the target (within reason).
The only other considerations that I might take into account regarding the two, already has been mentioned as being short-action versus long-action, and a 22" barrel versus a 24" barrel. Here too, Hornady's SuperFormance powder has made the barrel length a very nearly mute point. A 130 grain .270 Win SST fired through a 22" barrel has no significant loss of velocity over the same fired through a 24" barrel. Hornady truly has pulled-off a cartridge coup d'état.
I too will echo the fact that I cannot locate .308 Win any where locally. It is dry. Then, I saw this event coming about 3 to 4 years back, and did my due diligence, and made sacrifices in other purchases to afford to stock-up on factory loaded .308 Win, and all other cartridges I own, as well as all of the needed reloading components for each.
Don't get me wrong about the .30-06 Sprg. I wax-romantic for that dear old cartridge, and always will. A few years back I purchased a NIB Model 70 Super Grade. The first was defective. Its replacement was destroyed by a gunsmith about 6 months later. I finally had no option other than a Super Grade on the shelf in .270 Win. I wax pretty romantic for that too what with her having been my first true-love, but she just isn't the .30-06 Sprg. For the pure romance of that ol' .30-06 Srng being cartridge carried into WWI and WWII battles, I would opt for that cartridge. To me, the .30-06 is both Prom Queen and Tom Boy. She'll never disappoint...ever. Is a .30-06 necessary? I can't say it is.
Going back to short-actions and long action, 22" and 24" barrels, Winchester has your back with the "Extreme Weather". I also lust over the Model 70 Coyote Light. But, that doesn't mean I'll break-up anytime soon with my two favorite "girlfriends", my Model 70 Stealth .308, and my Super Grade .270. Choose your poison. Oh, and yes, cartridges that are readily available here today, included the .243, .25-06, .270, the .30-06, 7mm Mag and .300 Mag. Dang .308 is dried-up. Got me a whole military can full-up of Hornady SuperFormance .308 WIn 150 SSTs, and a whole military can, full-up of Hornady SuperFormance, .270 Win, 130 grain SSTs. Can't let my dates go hungry. 8^) Think about it, they can't "reciprocate" if they don't get fed.
Alas, I drift. Happy and safe shooting. By the way, this is one of the best threads that I have ever read at THR! Great thoughts and input fellas! No fan-boyisms, just good reflection and self-controlled discussion. Dang, I have missed THR these past 9 months away.
Geno
The deer that I shot this year with Hornady's SuperFormance SST ammunition dropped literally without a step, that from a .308 Win with 150 grain SST, and from a .270 Win with a 130 grain SST. Both deer were shot at just over 200 yards. There was no exit wound on either. In both cases, not only was a follow-up shot not needed, they dropped so fast it wasn't possible. Autopsy of both deer revealed about a 0.5" entrance wound, and minimal meat damage. On both deer, the near-side lung and the heart were literally "liquified". I mean, liquid! There may have been 1, 1" chunk. I mean, liquid. The far side-lung was 100% in-tact, on both deer.
Both of these deer dropped faster than any other game animal that I have shot at similar distances (deer, hog, ram) shot by any of my other firearms cartridges, including 6mm Rem, .257 Wea Mag, .300 Win Mag, .300 Wea Mag, even the .375 H&H, .444 Marlin and .45-70 Gov't. For my purposes, the .308 and the .30-06 are now officially co-equals, thanks to Hornady's SST and GMX offerings. Select the proper projectile, and you're good with either. Use an SST for an immediate "one-'shock'-kill", use a GMX for complete penetration regardless of angle or distance to the target (within reason).
The only other considerations that I might take into account regarding the two, already has been mentioned as being short-action versus long-action, and a 22" barrel versus a 24" barrel. Here too, Hornady's SuperFormance powder has made the barrel length a very nearly mute point. A 130 grain .270 Win SST fired through a 22" barrel has no significant loss of velocity over the same fired through a 24" barrel. Hornady truly has pulled-off a cartridge coup d'état.
I too will echo the fact that I cannot locate .308 Win any where locally. It is dry. Then, I saw this event coming about 3 to 4 years back, and did my due diligence, and made sacrifices in other purchases to afford to stock-up on factory loaded .308 Win, and all other cartridges I own, as well as all of the needed reloading components for each.
Don't get me wrong about the .30-06 Sprg. I wax-romantic for that dear old cartridge, and always will. A few years back I purchased a NIB Model 70 Super Grade. The first was defective. Its replacement was destroyed by a gunsmith about 6 months later. I finally had no option other than a Super Grade on the shelf in .270 Win. I wax pretty romantic for that too what with her having been my first true-love, but she just isn't the .30-06 Sprg. For the pure romance of that ol' .30-06 Srng being cartridge carried into WWI and WWII battles, I would opt for that cartridge. To me, the .30-06 is both Prom Queen and Tom Boy. She'll never disappoint...ever. Is a .30-06 necessary? I can't say it is.
Going back to short-actions and long action, 22" and 24" barrels, Winchester has your back with the "Extreme Weather". I also lust over the Model 70 Coyote Light. But, that doesn't mean I'll break-up anytime soon with my two favorite "girlfriends", my Model 70 Stealth .308, and my Super Grade .270. Choose your poison. Oh, and yes, cartridges that are readily available here today, included the .243, .25-06, .270, the .30-06, 7mm Mag and .300 Mag. Dang .308 is dried-up. Got me a whole military can full-up of Hornady SuperFormance .308 WIn 150 SSTs, and a whole military can, full-up of Hornady SuperFormance, .270 Win, 130 grain SSTs. Can't let my dates go hungry. 8^) Think about it, they can't "reciprocate" if they don't get fed.
Alas, I drift. Happy and safe shooting. By the way, this is one of the best threads that I have ever read at THR! Great thoughts and input fellas! No fan-boyisms, just good reflection and self-controlled discussion. Dang, I have missed THR these past 9 months away.
Geno
Kachok
Member
Tried those SSTs both as handloads and factory superformance in my 7mm-08, neither would group, but in my 30-06 the 150s were touching holes with a max compressed charge of RL19 pushing superformance speeds, and my Tikka LOVES SSTs, 129 and 140s shoot like a dream. Have not tried them in the 308 yet, guess it is time to break out the press and powders.
BTW good to have you back Geno
BTW good to have you back Geno
Kachok:
Thanks, feels like being back home. 8^)
For what it's worth, I upgraded my Weatherby Mark V .300 Win Mag to a Bell & Carlson Medalist stock. Then, I tried it out with the 150 SSTs. It groups right around 0.75" at 100 yards, and recoil is quite tolerable. Then I tried the 165 grain GMXs. All three shots were barely (loosely) touching at 100 yards. I was stunned by the accuracy for factory loads with the GMXs! But, the recoil factor is way high. Every time I pulled the trigger, I felt like I was at revival, and the preacher was smacking me in the head, commanding that I be healed of my desire to feel recoil. 8^)
Given the performance, and seeing the ammo shortage coming, I bought up a military can full of the 150 grain SSTs and 165 grain GMXs. They weren't cheap, but if what I am hunting would require a .300 Win, might as well feed it the GMXs. Now, I need to get a muzzle break on the beast.
Geno
Thanks, feels like being back home. 8^)
For what it's worth, I upgraded my Weatherby Mark V .300 Win Mag to a Bell & Carlson Medalist stock. Then, I tried it out with the 150 SSTs. It groups right around 0.75" at 100 yards, and recoil is quite tolerable. Then I tried the 165 grain GMXs. All three shots were barely (loosely) touching at 100 yards. I was stunned by the accuracy for factory loads with the GMXs! But, the recoil factor is way high. Every time I pulled the trigger, I felt like I was at revival, and the preacher was smacking me in the head, commanding that I be healed of my desire to feel recoil. 8^)
Given the performance, and seeing the ammo shortage coming, I bought up a military can full of the 150 grain SSTs and 165 grain GMXs. They weren't cheap, but if what I am hunting would require a .300 Win, might as well feed it the GMXs. Now, I need to get a muzzle break on the beast.
Geno
crabwearer
Member
I used my 06 to take an elk last year with 180gr Remmy Core-Lokt. It was a good sized bull (6x6, 372lbs hanging weight) and took two shots to put down. Had I been using my 308 I'm not sure it would have gone down as quickly. My preference for elk would be a 300 Win Mag. I used mine on a mule deer (overkill I know, but I also had an elk tag to fill) and I'm fully confident it will work great on elk. But, since you only mentioned 308 or 06, I would go for the 06.
You could also shoot heavy bullets for elk, 180-220gr, mid weight for deer, 125-150gr, and as light as you want to go for hog. I've never hog hunted but I imagine around 125 would get it done.
You could also shoot heavy bullets for elk, 180-220gr, mid weight for deer, 125-150gr, and as light as you want to go for hog. I've never hog hunted but I imagine around 125 would get it done.
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splattergun
Member
.308 throwing a .308 dia 180 gr. pill or a 30-06 throwing a .308 dia 180 gr. pill... hmmm. I vote 30-06 because I own one. I don't think the elk much cares.
Ridgerunner665
Member
My 30-06...
BY FAR...the best rifle I've ever owned...that said, it could just as easily have been (and almost was) a 308.
I'd get the 06, less likely to get caught up in an ammo scarcity.
BY FAR...the best rifle I've ever owned...that said, it could just as easily have been (and almost was) a 308.
I'd get the 06, less likely to get caught up in an ammo scarcity.
Kachok
Member
Is that your Model 70? Like that stock
308 and 30-06 are both great, but for what it is worth the two most experienced old deer hunters I have ever known use Model 700s in 270 Win and 280 Rem, they both own numerous other rifles including 30-06s.
308 and 30-06 are both great, but for what it is worth the two most experienced old deer hunters I have ever known use Model 700s in 270 Win and 280 Rem, they both own numerous other rifles including 30-06s.
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