.308ARs, Armalite/DPMS

[Matt.Cross]

The OP comes in and creates a thread as a retort to another thread, immediately starts slinging mud at manufacturers and rifle builders, professional and amateur, points out generic mistakes some home-builders have made, then cites “THE” parameters which work... or at least worked that one time for him... forgive me for inferring an inflated ego and a lack of understanding of basic physics and engineering design behind the AR reciprocating system in the OP...

You have taken a lot of license with regard to your "inferring", perhaps you would find it much less offensive to take simply what is said rather than what your prefer to believe is implied, or not... It's a free country.

 

[Matt.Cross]

Link to that test?

I don't understand your question, the test in question was a function test performed by an actual person. If you want a link to documented results, I don't have that to give you.

 

[silicosys4]

I don't understand your question, the test in question was a function test performed by an actual person. If you want a link to documented results, I don't have that to give you.

So is that your answer? A function test was done by some person on some rifle and it worked, and that's enough for you to consider it safe across the board? Well its a good thing AR 308's are standardized and nobody ever swaps parts like adjustable gas keys, BGC's, stuff like that...
Oh. Wait.

 

[someguy2800]

Well this thread is a dumpster fire

 

[Matt.Cross]

So is that your answer? A function test was done by some person on some rifle and it worked, and that's enough for you to consider it safe across the board? Well its a good thing AR 308's are standardized and nobody ever swaps parts like adjustable gas keys, BGC's, stuff like that...
Oh. Wait.

No, the function test was done on a specific rifle by a specific person with specific results. Due to the fact that a specific model can generally be expected to have a uniformity of factory construction, general problems will tend to have general solutions in terms of component solutions to issues.

Still, for all your naysaying you've found plenty of utility for the information you've found over at the 308AR site, as evidenced by your solutions to problems with your own build documented here. So you're welcome for that.

 

[silicosys4]

No, the function test was done on a specific rifle by a specific person with specific results. Due to the fact that a specific model can generally be expected to have a uniformity of factory construction, general problems will tend to have general solutions in terms of component solutions to issues.

Still, for all your naysaying you've found plenty of utility for the information you've found over at the 308AR site, as evidenced by your solutions to problems with your own build documented here. So you're welcome for that.

Lol, actually, I made my decisions prior to reading anything on AR308.com, thank god. That place is a low traffic peanut gallery. I can't recall ever seeing as much obviously incorrect information go unchallenged as I have in the PSA section of AR308, so many untested theories being supported as fact, and its your fault for running it like a clubhouse, letting a few of your "bro's" dominate the discussion at the expense of facts, bullying dissenting views...etc.

AR15.com is a much better resource and has much more open discussions that goes a lot more places, has pretty much all of the same good info PLUS honest discussion about it that tends to weed out the bad, and unlike AR308, the factory rep from PSA is still actively involved in forum discussions, and that's a great resource. Too much B.S. for him at AR308, I'd imagine.

 

[Matt.Cross]

I can't recall ever seeing as much obviously incorrect information go unchallenged as I have in the PSA section of AR308, so many untested theories being supported as fact, and its your fault for running it like a clubhouse, letting a few of your "bro's" dominate the discussion at the expense of facts, bullying dissenting views...etc.

You have yet to refute anything you've seen there in my reading of your post history. Good info or not, you haven't made any substantial contradictions in terms of actual facts, so there's that.

AR15.com is a much better resource and has much more open discussions that goes a lot more places, has pretty much all of the same good info PLUS honest discussion about it that tends to weed out the bad, and unlike AR308, the factory rep from PSA is still actively involved in forum discussions, and that's a great resource. Too much B.S. for him at AR308, I'd imagine.

Imagine away, it's pretty inconsequential to me what goes on in your imagination. You seem to rely on it a great deal, so more power to you.

 

[Sebastian]

I have yet to read a definitive gas tube depth engagement tolerance into the gas key on the carrier and whether the key location on the carrier is universal in its fore or aft location (disregard height over bore) by manufacturer. Please someone show me where to get this info? (I'm assuming it is but I cannot verify and wouldn't be surprised if it varied slightly) "Centerline of cam pin cutout" is what I have read but I have looked at pictures of, "fixed" gas tube lengths that are past the centerline. So clearly there is a tolerance within AR308 rifles that do not have functionality issues right? On the rifle length tube the difference in length is what 15 3/16 (mil-spec AR-15) to 15 1/2 (Fulton/Armalite)? Doesn't the length even for the AR-15 tube minimally vary by manufacturer even though it is "mil-spec"? Don't other manufacturers use a tube that is the shorter length (AR-15) and does not make it to the centerline of the cam pin cutout in the upper receiver? Certainly not the whipping boy PA-10 only? In the PA-10 the longer tube does not prevent lockup or make contact inside the rear of the gas key.

So "too short" is "bad" and/or "wrong" but it works and the "centerline is correct" but the fix puts it over centerline in at least some instances? So I guess this leads into different gas port locations by manufacturer too right?

What is the effect of too deep of engagement of the tube into the key assuming no physical interference? And too short? And what is the actual tolerance (in depth, forget the cam pin cutout) for functionality?

Saying some "initial design did it this specific way therefore any other way is wrong" is in itself wrong and can be verified by looking at the many other different manufacturer setups that run reliably. There are words that keep ringing in my head as well...those are: "Proprietary" and, "no standardized spec" so someone will preface an argument that a setup is proprietary and then immediately after compare it to a different system and exclaim that the system is all wrong?

 

[Matt.Cross]

Saying some "initial design did it this specific way therefore any other way is wrong" is in itself wrong

That is true. Unfortunately, it's not what was said. That's certainly what some people thought was being said, but reading carefully will show otherwise.

There seems to be a sentiment that if a certain system works in a large enough majority of cases, there's nothing wrong with it, despite what it's failures might indicate.

 

[someguy2800]

Weird, i did like half an hour of reading, bought all my parts from random sources, and it all worked the first time I put it together.

 

[Matt.Cross]

Weird, i did like half an hour of reading, bought all my parts from random sources, and it all worked the first time I put it together.

Gotta love a happy ending.

 

[Siscowet]

Lol, that makes four people who have registered in the last week from over on AR308. You guys travel in packs

A discussion on a gun forum isn't a firefight in your living room, and nobody's life is going to depend on my rounding up or rounding down in a discussion where eeeeeveryone knew what was being discussed.. That is a silly argument.

First, I don’t run around bragging that I am a troll on other forums, which you just have, as how would you know unless you have been lurking on the other forum you mentioned. I have never mentioned other forums on the High Road, and would not out of respect for the people who have put a lot of work on THR. But as you mentioned another forum, although you love to quote from it, I find it humerous that you seem never to have posted on that one, unless of course you might have got banned or chastised for inappropriate behaviour, or you merely lurk, borrowing ideas without contributing. If you want to have a discussion about firearms without getting arrogant and insulting, do so. If, you want to puff yourself up by quoting other forums, I would suggest buying a mirror and do it in front of it. I don’t see where you contribute much except to try to put other people down.

 

[mshootnit]

I swear I mentioned this gun before, here, but I can't find my reference to it anywhere now. I mentioned a DPMS-based receiver set running all-Armalite guts, and it runs like a champ.

I built an Aero Precision M5 receiver set (upper, lower, rail) and only used Armalite AR-10 internals (recoil system, BCG and barrel), and the damn thing runs like a champ.

View attachment 828834
This thread is going to go WAY MORE in detail on things like this. I've seen alot of bad information about .308ARs here - incredibly bad information. I'm going to address it.

98Z could you take a ar10 by armalite with a A2 stock and switch it out with a BCM or Spikes buffer tube kit?

 

[mshootnit]

Weird, i did like half an hour of reading, bought all my parts from random sources, and it all worked the first time I put it together.

Did you or would you list the parts you put together as a good example?

 

[JohnKSa]

If the goal is to provide constructive advice, this isn't how to do it. If the goal is to stir things up and get threads locked, then bravo! Just keep in mind that creating enough cleanup work for the staff will eventually have more negative results than just post edits and closed threads.