.357 load in .38spl case for .357 carbine rifle.

[Demi-human]

Save, of course, if one didn't have any.
I don't own a levergun. A tenth over ten rounds is one inch. A three fifty seven is more than an inch and a half, would this get more rounds into said rifle?

 

[Walkalong]

ould this get more rounds into said rifle?

I don't know if that is what the OP is trying to do, but it's not worth it IMHO.

 

[Sistema1927]

My Marlin 1894C will hold 10 .38 Special and only 9 .357 Magnum in the tube. It also functions quite well with .38 Special.

However, I wouldn't use .38 Special brass with .357 loads, for many of the reasons cited above. One additional reason is due to the fact that I am old enough that I encounter ammo that I have loaded years ago, and don't remember loading it. With the exception that I load some .45 Colt to "Ruger only" levels, and mark this fact well, I stick to keeping loads matching the brass.

 

[buck460XVR]

I don't know if that is what the OP is trying to do, but it's not worth it IMHO.

Same here....and a lighter weight bullet or a different profile bullet in an appropriate .357 case, may give more capacity because of a shorter OAL, while being safer overall. There's a good reason most cartridge cases have their caliber stamped on them and good reason most folks take it for granted if it says .38 on the case and fits into a .38 chamber , it's safe to shoot from a .38. Anytime one deviates from this SMO, there's a chance, even tho it may be quite slim, that someone will get hurt, somewhere down the line. I wouldn't want it to be me that created that risk, but that's me.

 

[kwallace]

Thanks everyone for all the great information and replies! The most common question, which I should have mentioned in my original post: WHY even do this? And some of you called it!

I have a TON of .38spl brass, and not a lot of .357. I am thinking of loading this for a light .357 charge strictly for a case or two of ammo. The ammo can I would put it in would include DEATH STICKERS (hazmat warning labels) on all sides, and a note, in BIG RED LETTERS in the can stating it's a light .357 load, NOT a 38 spl load.

No one but me will ever use it, and even then only as a backup.

There is, of course the possibility that I DIE and this stuff gets sold in an estate sale, but then, the very glaringly obvious warning labels.....

But I do understand. You can stick all the warning labels you want on the can, and some people will just not READ them no matter how obvious you make it. Part of me wants to take satisfaction in the potential Darwin Award that could result..... But, yeah, that might be dick thing to do.

So, advice taken. And thanks, guys! I think what I will do is just load them AS .38spl +P, using a maximum PUBLISHED .38 +P load from a reputable source (ie, my Hornady, or Lee reloading data book), and then just use them as plinkers.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I would just buy 1k pieces of new brass from Starline and be happy.

 

[RealGun]

Make no mistake that 38 +p in a 357 rifle is not pop gun ammo.

 

[WelshShooter]

You don't need max loads for plinkers really. If you really wanna push the boat out, just go ahead and buy a batch of Starline brass as ColtPythonElite mentioned and go for magnum loads. I shoot 357mag in my Marlin and it's great fun.

 

[mstreddy]

Kwallace,
Where are you located?
I think you have gotten the point of most posters here as to why it's a bad idea. I'm not going to pile on, but I'll do one thing.
Send me your address via PM, and in the spirit of the season, I will send you some 357 brass. I have more than I would use up and can spare some. So, I'll box some up in a USPS Small Flat Rate Box and I'll send it to you. May not be able to make the PO until next week, but it's yours.

 

[otblue]

Sample QL calc.
For a powder charge that generates full .357 mag pressure (35,000 psi), reducing the volume to a 38 Special case (0.1" shorter) would raise the pressure by about 10,000 psi to 45,000 psi due to the smaller volume of the case (+9 to +12,000 psi depending on the powder)

Now if you seated the bullet to where the OAL is the same for the 38 Special case as it is with the .357 magnum load (0.1" longer), you would get the same performance and same pressure as the .357 load in a .357 case. Yes, you lose a little neck tension because there is now less brass to grip the bullet while the powder ignites, but it's not much. However, you are likely not seated to where you could put a good roll crimp on the bullet which you would still need to prevent bullet setback in a tube magazine.

Best to stick with 38 +P loads if you're resigned to only use 38 special cases. Otherwise spring the bucks for some .357 brass.

My preliminary experience using 357 data for 158gn projectiles in 38 cases but loaded to 357 OAL is that velocities are much LESS than the same load in 357 cases. My crimps are good and my presumtion is that pressures are lower for the last 1/10 inch of travel when the cylinder wall rather than the longer case acts to determine defacto case capacity.

I have a batch of 38 and 357 cases loaded up with several loads of 4227 with OAL lengths in 1mm increments between 38 and 357 ready to test over the Labradar over the next couple if weeks. Will get back with definitve results.

On the topic of case confusion; Let's not be too concerned. Simple rule. NEVER shoot anyone else's reloads. Label your own carefully.

Many a case has been converted by squeezing or expanding or shortening to something entirely different to that shown on the headstamp. Sure, many no longer will chamber in the original firearm but lots still do.

Labels are your friend.

 

[Demi-human]

And a very Merry Christmas to you, @mstreddy ! Well done!

@mstreddy, the spirit of Christmas Brass!

So... Is it Redd or Eddy..?

 

[mstreddy]

Demi-human,
Thanks for the compliment.
It's Mr... though...
either Master Eddy or Mister Eddy
Or just plain - Eddy
The handle came from my second Internet account. Limited to 8 characters all lower case, so had to get creative with the combo of the name to fit the constraint. The first one was mastered, read as Master Ed, but same constraints 8 characters all lower.
Ah, the good old days of the Internet and networks.And when I joined here, I didn't realize I could mix case.

I like that Spirit of Christmas Brass!

 

[mjsdwash]

I have done exactly this. Marlin 94C. Got an extra round which I thought was useful, because I carried it around where there were big bears. They worked fine until I have a head separation. Took tools and time to fix. Did not get to use that rifle for a week in the woods. 38 brass is thinner in the head, and it can happen. Used the load in a Vaquero, and had 2 more case failures. Strongly recommend you don't

 

[buck460XVR]

No one but me will ever use it, and even then only as a backup.

There is, of course the possibility that I DIE and this stuff gets sold in an estate sale, but then, the very glaringly obvious warning labels.....

Ever been to an estate sale where there is reloaded ammo for sale? I've gone to quite a few. Many times the heirs/spouse or auction house will combine mixed partial boxes to make full boxes for easier sales, and ease of displaying/moving. Many don't have a clue as to what they are doing, nor do they care, they just want to get rid of it. I have some reloads for revolver that were made with Lil'Gun. Not unsafe to shoot, but hard on revolvers that I need to get to and pull, just in case someone unknowingly uses them.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have done exactly this. Marlin 94C. Got an extra round which I thought was useful, because I carried it around where there were big bears. They worked fine until I have a head separation. Took tools and time to fix. Did not get to use that rifle for a week in the woods. 38 brass is thinner in the head, and it can happen. Used the load in a Vaquero, and had 2 more case failures. Strongly recommend you don't

I have never ever had a case separation with handgun brass and especially not with .38 Special brass. Before today I have not heard of it happening to anyone either. That is very strange especially in a revolver????

 

[Walkalong]

Enough pressure can do it. When I get home later, I'll post a pic that was posted by a member when (IIRC) he accidentally overloaded some .38 Spl and had case head separations.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Ever been to an estate sale where there is reloaded ammo for sale? I've gone to quite a few. Many times the heirs/spouse or auction house will combine mixed partial boxes to make full boxes for easier sales, and ease of displaying/moving. Many don't have a clue as to what they are doing, nor do they care, they just want to get rid of it. I have some reloads for revolver that were made with Lil'Gun. Not unsafe to shoot, but hard on revolvers that I need to get to and pull, just in case someone unknowingly uses them.

I have also been to many estate sales and the above is extremely accurate. Sometimes things happen outside of our control and we can't prevent it.(especially if we're gone lol)

 

[ATLDave]

As long as we're on the topic of over-max loads in a given cartridge, I cringe every time a loaded 9mm Major round hits the deck at a USPSA match... somewhere out there is some fool who will find one of these rounds and blow up his stock 9mm pistol....

 

[Walkalong]

I find 9MM at the range sometimes, but I always used to break down any ammo I found and salvaged the brass. These days I have enough brass not to worry with 9MM. I still salvage .223.

And it's really a good idea not to shoot any ammo found on the ground at the range, even though often times it would be ok. It's that one time you need to worry about.

 

[Walkalong]

The pic

 

[Havok7416]

And with Starline brass no less... yikes!

 

[Demi-human]

Oops! My apologies, @mstreddy. " I swear, you must see things differently..." my mother would say!
Sorry about that.

 

[mjsdwash]

I have never ever had a case separation with handgun brass and especially not with .38 Special brass. Before today I have not heard of it happening to anyone either. That is very strange especially in a revolver????

it was loaded to near 357 specs, a little bit light because of the reduced OAL, but a lot of Bluedot, and 158 grain bullets. Never had an issue with cases in 357, or light 38 special. Worth noting that I used to get data off Alliants data center, and they used to publish some VERY heavy loads beyond what you would find in a book. This was shortly before they said BD was not a great powder for 357, and lowered the loads on everything. That brass had seen a few loading at the hotter side.

 

[Big7]

NO! :deadhorse:

 

[cp1969]

I didn't read all the posts so I don't know if this has been mentioned as an answer to all of those asking "why do this?"

Marlin lists the max OAL for the 1894 carbine as 1.590". There are a number of cast bullets that exceed this dimension when crimped in a .357 case. Some rifles can still cycle with shells exceeding that OAL, some can't. Among the work-arounds, none of which are good, is using a .38 Spl case.

I recommend NOT doing this. I know of no jacketed bullets which have the problem in the Marlin 1894, so there is no reason to substitute the .38 case if jacketed bullets are used.