.38 S&W load data.

[Twmaster]

I'm usually a cautious loader. I load a lot of ammo and I like my eyes and hands to be unharmed.

I recently picked up an S&W Model 33-1 in 38 S&W. This week I loaded some 150 grain cast pills with 2.5 grains of W231, loaded to 1.015" COL. My Lyman book called for a max of 2.4 grains of W231.

Anyhow, I shot these this evening. You've heard of Gopher farts? Well these were even quieter than a gopher fart. Stupid soft shooting. No recoil. Very quiet.

What am I doing wrong here? I've been reloading for a couple of years and this just plain does not make sense.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You're not doing anything wrong. The 38 S&W cartridge was anemic at best because of all the weak top-break revolvers chambered in cartridge. The SAAMI Max pressure for the .38 S&W is only 14,500 PSI. Other than the 45 Colt and I think the 38-40 and 44-40 there are no other handgun cartridge with pressures that low... (that's why we needed the .38 Special lol)

 

[hovercat]

2 things to try first. Use a bigger slug. S&W may run as big as .360. Also try a heavy crimp to get the powder burning.

 

[Salmoneye]

I load 158gr cast @ .358" over 2gr of Red Dot in my Albion Motors made Enfield...

Love that load, and so does the gun...

 

[Twmaster]

I'm using .360 hard cast, 150 grain. the factory ammo I've shot has waaaay more bark than these. Crimp was about what I do with .38 SPL. Nice and rolled.

 

[Walkalong]

I am running an X-Treme 158 Gr plated SWC at around 675 FPS in .38 S&W. (Depending on barrel length) Not quite bunny fart level, but they are soft shooting for sure. I also have a load with a 148 Gr HBWC running a hair faster. The 158 shoots closer to POA. (Not as low)

I bulged some brass to the point it did not want to re-chamber when working up loads It goes from OK to too much quickly.

Sounds like you are too light.

I am using 2.7 Grs of N320 with an OAL of 1.075 for the X-Treme 158 and 2.9 Grs N320 with the Berrys 148 HBWC at 1.102


These loads appear safe in my guns using my load technique. Use at your own risk. Start low and work up.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm using .360 hard cast, 150 grain. the factory ammo I've shot has waaaay more bark than these. Crimp was about what I do with .38 SPL. Nice and rolled.

You're probably right the factory ammo has more "bark" bu that doesn't always mean there is more velocity. Some powders will produce different types of recoil so although the round feels like it's hotter it may not be producing significantly more velocity.

Case-in-point, when trying to produce replica loads for practice there are plenty of powders that will duplicate the velocity but only 1 or 2 that will produce the same "feel" of the recoil generated by the original. IMO if the recoil doesn't feel the same it's really not a replica.

You may be right and that load is "lighter" than the factory ammo but I would send both over a chrono before you condemn your load. (if you can) BTW, if you want bark you will get it by using Herco under that 150gr bullet.

 

[eeh]

Buy a. Chronograph let it tell you what you are doing..right or wrong

 

[Twmaster]

I'm fairly sure the velocity is much lower. The holes in the paper targets are more like the tear of poking yer finger through would make. Not round and better defined like a bullet should make.

One thing I forgot to mention. (Sometimes I wonder where my brain is) I got a lot of unburned powder.

Perhaps some day Santa will be nice and bring me a chrono.

 

[AABEN]

I'm usually a cautious loader. I load a lot of ammo and I like my eyes and hands to be unharmed.

I recently picked up an S&W Model 33-1 in 38 S&W. This week I loaded some 150 grain cast pills with 2.5 grains of W231, loaded to 1.015" COL. My Lyman book called for a max of 2.4 grains of W231.

Anyhow, I shot these this evening. You've heard of Gopher farts? Well these were even quieter than a gopher fart. Stupid soft shooting. No recoil. Very quiet.

What am I doing wrong here? I've been reloading for a couple of years and this just plain does not make sense.

I looked it up and it said 3.5 low and 4.0 . This load is for the 38 special ..NOT a S&W 38

 

[FROGO207]

I would try a little Trail Boss if you can get some. Hodgdon's web site has a tutorial about using trail boss with an unknown bullet brass combo. It mimics black powder to an extent and should be safe for use in that low pressure round. I use it for 32 S&W short loads with good success. YMMV

 

[davek32100]

I would try a little Trail Boss if you can get some. Hodgdon's web site has a tutorial about using trail boss with an unknown bullet brass combo. It mimics black powder to an extent and should be safe for use in that low pressure round. I use it for 32 S&W short loads with good success. YMMV

Hey , I'm new to reloading, started with 45acp. then loaded 32 s&with short and long. I just recently got an older iver Johnson 38 s&w. after I shoot up my factory magtech s I'll reload the brass. I'll probably use some 200 grain swc. the powder I'm currently using is BE or TG. when I get close to starting I'll be back on here for some advise

Thanks david

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Hey , I'm new to reloading, started with 45acp. then loaded 32 s&with short and long. I just recently got an older iver Johnson 38 s&w. after I shoot up my factory magtech s I'll reload the brass. I'll probably use some 200 grain swc. the powder I'm currently using is BE or TG. when I get close to starting I'll be back on here for some advise

Thanks david

I'm using W231 for loading the 38 S&W with a 170gr or 200gr bullet that tries to mimic the old British 38/200 load. W231 does a very good job for me and is clean and accurate.

 

[Walkalong]

W-231 is a good choice. BE-86 will probably work well. (Haven't tried it in .38 S&W), but I would hesitate to start with Titegroup as it is fast and can be spiky at the top. Not a lot of room for error in the small case.

 

[davek32100]

W-231 is a good choice. BE-86 will probably work well. (Haven't tried it in .38 S&W), but I would hesitate to start with Titegroup as it is fast and can be spiky at the top. Not a lot of room for error in the small case.

 

[Rule3]

Back to the OP question

Hodgdon data for a 145 gr lead bullet is listed here. In the blistering 38 SW, I doubt the 5 grains of bullet matters that much, but the max they list for FPS is 630 fps. So your 2.5 gr appears to be about right.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

 

[davek32100]

I use bullseye for my 45 acp 200 swc Missouri poly coated around 4.5 to 5.
In my 32 s&w long I started with 2 grns of BE, but backed it back down to 1.5.
The shorts I'm shooting out of an older H&R American I believe us from about 1912, around 1 grn give or take . 001.
By the first of the year I'm hoping to make my own 200 grn bullets for the 38.
I have a friend of the family that's been doing this since the 70's. between this site and Clyde I still have my fingers & my guns in 1 piece
Thanks again

 

[25-5]

I load for Webley and Enfield top breaks. Webley takes a .358 158gr Missouri Bullet and Enfield a .361 200gr Matt's Bullet. I charge both with 2.6gr of W231. Worked up a Titegroup load as well. No issues at all, although these top breaks are sturdier than their US brothers. Though anemic, I would not want to catch them.
A solid frame should have no problem. I do measure rather than dump the loads. All caveats apply.

 

[davek32100]

W-231 is a good choice. BE-86 will probably work well. (Haven't tried it in .38 S&W), but I would hesitate to start with Titegroup as it is fast and can be spiky at the top. Not a lot of room for error in the small case.

Good to know, I'll save the TG for 45 xtp.
I could probably get some red dot if u think that will help. I had just ordered an extra couple lbs of BE before the election .
Guess I need to shoot more so I can order more
Thanks again

 

[Walkalong]

Red Dot is very fast as well. Not that either one can't be used, it's just there is less room for error and since you are new to reloading and the caliber is new to you......

 

[davek32100]

Red Dot is very fast as well. Not that either one can't be used, it's just there is less room for error and since you are new to reloading and the caliber is new to you......

Again, thank you
Didn't realize red dot was fast.
Will start under 2 grns & go up slowly with BE. I have about thirty 200 grains swc.
I'll play with those next week until I can make some.

Again thank you,
I didn't mean to get off track of the original question
My apologies

 

[Sarge7402]

You didn't say how your powder was stored or measured. Several years ago Skeeter Skelton wrote about somethon similar. He'd left the powder in a plastic measuring device and the powder had reacted with the plastic and gotten extremely weak.

In My Regulation Police I use about 2.7 grains of unique and it definitely isn't a mouse fart.

Also my speer manual sets a maximum of 2.6 grains of 231 under a 158 grain .359 LSWC or LRN bulet

 

[Malamute]

I would try a little Trail Boss if you can get some. Hodgdon's web site has a tutorial about using trail boss with an unknown bullet brass combo. It mimics black powder to an extent and should be safe for use in that low pressure round. I use it for 32 S&W short loads with good success. YMMV

Id be cautious with Trail Boss in trying low pressure loads and assuming they are similar to black. The info ive seen for rifles, it definitely was not as low pressure as black and has a sharper spike.