.38 Special GP-100

[Elm Creek Smith]

Well, one of the LGSs has a fixed sight, 4 inch half-lugged, blued GP-100 that has .38 Special on the barrel with a cylinder chambered to match. From the wear on the grip, it looks like it was carried in a Safariland 6280 duty holster. They want $379.00 for it. I'm thinking I need it.

What say you?

 

[Alec]

I had no idea they made them in .38 special only. I wonder why, if the frame and cylinder are identical in size and metal composition-- but then again, they might not be, have you compared it side-by-side with a .357 GP-100?

 

[Sunray]

Supposedly a Ruger LEO/Security product. Likely carried much but fired little. Lot of discussion about 'em on rugerforum.net from 2012.
Alleged to be not +P rated, but another guy says they are. Also alleged to only have been made in 2006. Apparently they were $350ish BNIB.

 

[PJSprog]

I didn't know they came in .38 only either. Interesting.

My thought is, if it's a GP-100 and it's in good shape, then that's a fine price for it.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I would be VERY, VERY surprised if there was any difference between the .38 and .357 GP-100 guns beside the chamber depth and markings on the barrel. Just for production line continuity, the metallurgy and heat treating should be exactly the same.

 

[sgt127]

The general consensus on the Ruger Forum is that they are identical except the depth of the shoulder in the chamber.

I would be shocked if there were any difference. Too much work to set up a separate line just to make one or two runs.

Remember when the SP-101 first came out in .38 Special. People immediately started reaming out the chamber to take .357 Magnums. It worked so well that Ruger brought that gun out in 125 GR loadings only. (that's all the room in the cylinder) And, sold it that way for awhile. They then stretched the frame and the cylinder just a little and it was a .357 Magnum (any grain or length).

Ruger still makes runs of .38 Special SP-101's but, its on the new longer (magnum) frame.

 

[Steve C]

I would be VERY, VERY surprised if there was any difference between the .38 and .357 GP-100 guns beside the chamber depth and markings on the barrel.

I would be shocked if there were any difference. Too much work to set up a separate line just to make one or two runs.

There probably isn't any dimensional differences other than the chambering but 27 years in manufacturing tells me that they probably didn't heat treat and harden the cylinders to with stand .357 mag pressures as that is a costly process and easy to leave out or shorten duration to meet .38 spl spec's only. This would be a typical production cost savings used by any manufacturer to comply with a product to meat lower use standards than they may typically build to.

Now you can fire .357 mag pressures in .38 spl guns and likely will not have it come apart on you right away being that the magnum pressure is about what they use for .38 spl proof loads but who in their right mind would shoot proof loads as regular ammunition? Don't get overconfident and load ammo heavier than the manuals +P .38 spl. because there's more than a good chance the cylinders are not .357 mag capable and don't let anyone other than the factory talk you into reaming out the cylinders to .357 mag dimensions.

I wouldn't have any worry about using .38 spl +P ammo in a firearm built as heavy as the GP100. The issue with +P isn't that it will blow up the gun but that the extra velocity and heavier pressure may cause damage such as frame stretching in alloy frame pistols or loosen up lighter frame handguns. Not an issue with a full size revolver chambered in .38 spl. be it a Ruger GP, S&W K, L, or N frame or Colt E, I or J frame.

 

[dickydalton]

I had one in DAO marked GPNY full lug made for New York Police but never issued due to them switching to autos. They will shoot +P+ and can even be reamed to 357. Mine had a 5lb 2oz super smooth trigger.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

Thanks for the responses. I wasn't thinking about "magnumizing" it; more like ".38/.44 Heavy Duty"ing it. Do y'all think $379.00 is a fair price?

On the "why" front, I remember when Colorado limited armed security officers to .38 Special revolver, and I know some security companies were leery of issuing .357 Magnums or semiautomatics.

 

[dickydalton]

Thanks for the responses. I wasn't thinking about "magnumizing" it; more like ".38/.44 Heavy Duty"ing it. Do y'all think $379.00 is a fair price?

On the "why" front, I remember when Colorado limited armed security officers to .38 Special revolver, and I know some security companies were leery of issuing .357 Magnums or semiautomatics.

I believe it's a fair price.

 

[The Alaskan]

Hold on a second here. Someone help me out with this.

How is it that $379 is a "fair price" or a "good price" for a gun that sold for $350 NIB$ (If that is indeed the case)

Guns, with the exception of some collectibles or guns with a proven historical provenance, are consumer items; they shouldn't increase in value.

If the gun was made in 2006, as someone suggested, then, adjusting for inflation, $379 in 2015 is only $30 below the NIB price.

In what market is paying $30 less than new for a 10 year old item a "good price?"

Am I missing something here?

 

[Schwing]

Hold on a second here. Someone help me out with this.

How is it that $379 is a "fair price" or a "good price" for a gun that sold for $350 NIB$ (If that is indeed the case)

Guns, with the exception of some collectibles or guns with a proven historical provenance, are consumer items; they shouldn't increase in value.

If the gun was made in 2006, as someone suggested, then, adjusting for inflation, $379 in 2015 is only $30 below the NIB price.

In what market is paying $30 less than new for a 10 year old item a "good price?"

Am I missing something here?

While I agree, I would be inclined to buy it anyway just for the novelty of it.

 

[PJSprog]

Am I missing something here?

Yes. You are apparently overlooking the fact that well-made revolvers generally keep a pretty good resale value. The GP-100 has always been a very well-made revolver. I just checked, and I see that Bass Pro has the 4" GP-100 listed for $699. So, in my opinion, a used gun in good shape at nearly half the cost of a new one is indeed a fair price. Add to that the fact that this is not a common gun, and it becomes an even better deal ... to me, anyway.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Remember when the SP-101 first came out in .38 Special. People immediately started reaming out the chamber to take .357 Magnums. It worked so well that Ruger brought that gun out in 125 GR loadings only.

I'm confused by this statement. It was my understanding that 38 specials and 357 magnums were identical in bullet diameter, case diameter, and rim thickness, but the OAL of 357 was lengthened to prevent it from being chambered in a 38 special revolver.

Why would reaming out the chambers come into play when the cylinder and therefore the frame length be the constricting factor here? Am I not understanding what you mean by "reaming out"?

 

[RugRev]

"Guns, with the exception of some collectibles or guns with a proven historical provenance, are consumer items; they shouldn't increase in value."

The value or price of any commodity is determined by supply and demand and whether there are close subsititutes (economists call it differentiated product). Inflation measured by Consumer Price Index is an average for a large group of commodities. Any one commodity need not move in sync. With the coming of the current administration in DC demand for firearms and things related shot up drastically. One has only to look at the most prolific of revolver manufacturers to see what happened to their prices both new and existing used models.

 

[Monac]

460Kodiak, I think people are assuming that the 38 Special GP-100 is exactly like the 357 Magnum GP-100 except for the location of the chamber steps, which prevents inserting 357 Magnum ammunition fully in the chambers of the 38 Special version. They are assuming that simply machining (or reaming) out these steps will allow the use of 357 ammunition.

I guess there is some argument over whether the steels used, or the heat treatment of the steel, is actually identical in both guns. Sunray, the third poster, even suggested the guns may not be rated for 38 Special +P. I would be astonished if he were correct, but I know nothing about these guns.

You are suggesting that the cylinders in the two versions are of different length, as in the S&W Model 10 and Model 13. As I said, I have no idea.

 

[reddog81]

I think $379 is fair. You could always offer $350 and see what happens. Anything in the $350 to $400 is probably reasonable depending on condition.
You should be able to shoot 38/44 loads without a problem. Like others have said it should be able to handle the hottest 38 special +P loads out there and then some. I would definitely avoid trying to duplicate .357 magnum pressures. It's possible the cylinder is heat treated but I wouldn't test it.
I think you are correct about why some got issued as 38 specials. Certain departments only issue 38's and in order to prevent .357 from getting accidentally used they wanted guns that only chambered 38 specials.

 

[IWAC]

JUMP on that sucker like a Turkey on a June Bug!

 

[Jim Watson]

M. Ayoob's bud Rick Devoid will rechamber an early .38 SP 101 to .357, reportedly with Ruger's blessing. I doubt the GP is weaker. But I would leave this one alone as a novelty. .38-44 HD is about all the fun I want anyhow.

 

[Pilot]

Is there enough case volume in a .38 Spl to load up to magnum velocities? I haven't loaded .38/.357 in years so don't remember.

 

[Jim Watson]

If you look around, you can find what Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton did with overloaded .38 Special. There has been some work on replicating .38-44, too.

 

[GyMac]

I have several .38 specials and enjoy shooting them. For what I do, blowing holes in paper targets and maybe an occasional can, I prefer the .38. The case is already long enough and, for me, the .357 is too long.

 

[BCRider]

Is there enough case volume in a .38 Spl to load up to magnum velocities? I haven't loaded .38/.357 in years so don't remember.

Pilot, it depends on the powder used but with small charge powders such as Bullseye and Titegroup there is more than enough room in a .38Spl casing to not only accept a magnum level charge but to even DOUBLE the magnum charge volume.

A powder such as 2400 is another story. I don't think there would be enough room in a .38Spl case to allow for a magnum size charge. It's been a while since I loaded any 2400 so I'm not sure at the moment.

And certainly if you loaded up a .38Spl case with H110 it would be a very strong charge but not quite into the Magnum muzzle velocity range.... well.... unless you use a compressed charge. Then it would. But that's likely not a wise idea since it sure isn't in any of the books or other data sources. And besides, the world isn't THAT short of .357Mag brass.

 

[PapaG]

We ran a dozen or so of these through our shop a couple years ago selling at $250 plus tax. No complaints from anyone. The Ruger rep said they were not heat treated the same as a 357. Heck for stout anyway. I treated mine like a 38/44.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I would be VERY, VERY surprised if there was any difference between the .38 and .357 GP-100 guns beside the chamber depth and markings on the barrel. Just for production line continuity, the metallurgy and heat treating should be exactly the same.

I agree. Even now there is a smith that will rechamber Ruger Speed Six's that are made in .38 spl. to .357 Magnum.

Word is with the Six series that Ruger used same heat treatment for all of them (cheaper to do it all in one lot) and then just had some chambered to .38 and stamped the barrels. They were export guns for countries where their cops could not use such powerful rounds as the .357 magnum.

I see no reason the GP would not be the same way and thus same heat treatment.

Deaf