.38 Special vs .380

[355sigfan]

This brings up an interesting point ...

... While the 9mm parabellum is significantly superior to the .380ACP, when facing three badies, would you be better serves by being able to fire 2-3 rounds of 9mm at each one of 4-5 rounds of .380ACP at each one? Factoring in the "miss" factor ... is 1-2 hits with a 9mm as effective as 2-3 hits with a .380ACP?

I honestly don't know. Anybody?

Give me the 9mm any day. The 9mm has sufficient energy and momentium to drive bullets 12 inches deep and expand to over .70 caliber. That means I would have to fire far less into each bad guy compared to the .380. Compare the 380 to the 9mm is a joke. The 380 can not expand and penetrate 12 inches. It does one or the other but not both. Its stopping power is sub par. I would rather have 5 38 +p rounds from a snubby than 13 380's from your Beresa.
Pat

 

[TimboKhan]

For me, the .38 special. I own a variety of calibers, and I won't lie to you and say the .38 is my favorite, but I do happen to think that as a cartridge, it gets a bad rap. First off, lets all just agree that historically the .38 has proven itself more than capable of being a good self-defense round. Again, its not perfect, but it does have plenty of notches on its belt. Second, the .38 is pleasant to shoot and easy to control. Third, between the two cartridges specified, the .38 is the more powerful of the two. For me personally, I just like the round, and I don't feel undergunned when I use it.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I carry both My S&W Bodyguard J frame fits my Wal mart Jeans in a Don Hume pocket holster perfect. but most time its My PPK/S in a DH pocket holster.
I would like to know what 380 that holds 12 rounds you can pocket carry but J frame to big in same pocket. You don't pocket carry the Beretta of Browning. Their bigger than a J frame.
Bersa hasn't imported a 12 round 380 since the 10 round mag law Clintion days. Today Thunder handles job and at best its a 9+1

 

[Alan Fud]

Their bigger than a J frame.

Depends on how you look at it ...

... definitely too big for pocket carry.

 

[unspellable]

This caliber vs that caliber

All this discussion of this caliber vs that caliber is wonderfull, but for me it's generally a case of cocealability trumps all. I simply carry the most potent round that's on a platform I can conceal that day. Sometimes its a 32 ACP. Sometimes its a super compact 380 or a supercompact 9 mm. Rarely its a service sized piece.

If concealability were not an issue I'd simply pack a 357 mag or a 10 mm and be done with it.

Those of us not affiliated with law enforcement cannot afford to print or flash. It can lead to all kinds of hassles.

 

[MCgunner]

Depends on how you look at it ...

... definitely too big for pocket carry.

My 9mm is smaller than either of those.

 

[mbt2001]

I keep hearing people depending on a meaningless ballistics chart and penetration tests on ballistics jelly. Frankly speaking these are meaningless.

When engaging a target ARMED OR NOT seek cover, and fire 2 hits to center mass and evaluate in the weaver ready then 1 to the head if there is ANY DELAY in the incapacitation of the target. In fact, fire two to the chest and then immeadiatly sight the head and fire.

I don't care what gun you have, he is going down. If the fight is protracted, you have sought cover and delivered two shots on target.

Do not worry about idiotic reports of penetration. Those are ideal at best.

The Red Baron took a round from one of those .50 cal airplane guns RIGHT BETWEEN THE BLOODY EYES and he lived. He had headaches for the rest of his life, but the bullet rode up his scalp and he lived, no big deal!!!!!!!

Keep firing. Seek Cover. Bring 2 spare mags. Retreat for your long gun unless you have a compelling reason not to. Get your long gun. Find cover. Keep firing. Reload. Continue to fire. Use cover. Call for backup.

 

[355sigfan]

I keep hearing people depending on a meaningless ballistics chart and penetration tests on ballistics jelly. Frankly speaking these are meaningless.

When engaging a target ARMED OR NOT seek cover, and fire 2 hits to center mass and evaluate in the weaver ready then 1 to the head if there is ANY DELAY in the incapacitation of the target. In fact, fire two to the chest and then immeadiatly sight the head and fire.

I don't care what gun you have, he is going down. If the fight is protracted, you have sought cover and delivered two shots on target.

Do not worry about idiotic reports of penetration. Those are ideal at best.

The Red Baron took a round from one of those .50 cal airplane guns RIGHT BETWEEN THE BLOODY EYES and he lived. He had headaches for the rest of his life, but the bullet rode up his scalp and he lived, no big deal!!!!!!!

Keep firing. Seek Cover. Bring 2 spare mags. Retreat for your long gun unless you have a compelling reason not to. Get your long gun. Find cover. Keep firing. Reload. Continue to fire. Use cover. Call for backup.

Don't pause fire two or more to the chest and go to the head. If the head is not there then go low for the pelvis if its not there the threat is probably on the ground.

The red barren was not hit from a .50 cal rather a 30 caliber machine gun that was most likly fired from the ground. Even if he was shot down the bi planes of the day did not carry .50's they carried 30 caliber machine guns. Also he was not hit in the head but rather the torso.
Pat

 

[Mad Chemist]

Excuse me if this has already been pointed out. But shouldn't a pocket gun be capable of firing from a pocket more than once?
What about coat pockets during the winter?
I'd vote for the revolver on this one even if it was a .380 revolver.
A friend of mine has a S&W 940-1. It's a J-frame in 9mm. It's a very nice pocket gun. I'm kind of jealous since they're not too common around here.

JH

 

[355sigfan]

Excuse me if this has already been pointed out. But shouldn't a pocket gun be capable of firing from a pocket more than once?

JH

Depends on the pocket. Not sure I would want to fire from a pants pocket would you.
I would not make this a qualification. It would be a last ditch move. Because you would have to point shoot and that seldom works.
Pat

 

[Mad Chemist]

Depends on the pocket. Not sure I would want to fire from a pants pocket would you.
I would not make this a qualification. It would be a last ditch move. Because you would have to point shoot and that seldom works.
Pat

Ever heard of or been in the FUT as in "messed" up tangle? This is also known as bad breath distance. NS about the pants, I was editing for clarity while you were pointing that out. My typing is a little slow.
Think "covert weapon presentation" for another application besides the FUT.
Just my $.02.

JH

 

[mbt2001]

The red barren was not hit from a .50 cal rather a 30 caliber machine gun that was most likly fired from the ground. Even if he was shot down the bi planes of the day did not carry .50's they carried 30 caliber machine guns. Also he was not hit in the head but rather the torso.
Pat

Von Richthofen was wounded on July 6, 1917, by a bullet that creased his forehead. He was momentarily paralyzed and blinded and his plane plunged into a dive, but he recovered in time to make a crash landing. His headgear had filled with blood. The wound never fully healed, and for the rest of his life, his head was bandaged. (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1222347/posts)

My point (that bullets do strange things when they hit targets, especially human targets) still stands... Except for the part about the .50 caliber. I could have made a mistake there.

 

[355sigfan]

I just finished watching a show on the history channel talking about the red barren. The show stated he was hit in the lower torso and did crash but bleed to death on the ground. No mention was made of a head wound.
Pat

 

[MCgunner]

Depends on the pocket. Not sure I would want to fire from a pants pocket would you.
I would not make this a qualification. It would be a last ditch move. Because you would have to point shoot and that seldom works.
Pat

Besides, I don't wear a coat much, even in what they call "winter" down here. I have one for riding on a 45 degree morning, but it comes off when I'm working. We just got a "blue norther" in, supposed to be low 40s in the morning, but it'll be in the high sixties by afternoon.

For me, pocket means blue jeans pocket.

 

[mbt2001]

I just finished watching a show on the history channel talking about the red barren. The show stated he was hit in the lower torso and did crash but bleed to death on the ground. No mention was made of a head wound.
Pat

Did they mention the "head wound" he had received that they are pretty sure was the cause of his recklessness the day he was shot down? That was the shot to the head.

 

[DesertFox]

The powder charge I use when reloading 9mm and 38 Special is identical with many powders. The 38 Special case can hold MUCH more powder to create a +P round. The 380 Auto case will max out with a charge before it gets to low 9mm loadings.

IMOHO, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, caliber aside!

 

[355sigfan]

The powder charge I use when reloading 9mm and 38 Special is identical with many powders. The 38 Special case can hold MUCH more powder to create a +P round. The 380 Auto case will max out with a charge before it gets to low 9mm loadings.

IMOHO, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, caliber aside!

The 38 can hold more powder but can not safely use that room. It was designed as a black powder round. The 357 mag is what happens when you use that room for more powder. The 9mm with the hottest ammo out runs the hottest 38 rounds by about 200 fps with all identical bullet weights.
Pat

 

[355sigfan]

Did they mention the "head wound" he had received that they are pretty sure was the cause of his recklessness the day he was shot down? That was the shot to the head.

Not that I remember.
Pat