4” or 5.5” and what carry strategy?

[thomas15]

I think a better question is which of the two is more fun to practice regularly. Because of the two skills, that's the one that will most likely get more attention.

Fair enough.

I think you are saying, "buy the 44 magnum revolver, practice a lot, be protected from the bear"?

Is this is not consistent with what I've been saying? That being practice, and lots of it, is the key?

Further, given the concerns from the OP and others, the cost of the handgun and ammo is not really a factor if your having sufficient fun, which will also carry the shooter over the hump as far as budget is concerned especially given that the woods gun and the CCW gun are two different guns?

 

[WrongHanded]

Fair enough.

I think you are saying, "buy the 44 magnum revolver, practice a lot, be protected from the bear"?

Is this is not consistent with what I've been saying? That being practice, and lots of it, is the key?

Further, given the concerns from the OP and others, the cost of the handgun and ammo is not really a factor if your having sufficient fun, which will also carry the shooter over the hump as far as budget is concerned especially given that the woods gun and the CCW gun are two different guns?

I'm not necessarily advocating for a .44 magnum, but that was part of the basis of the OP. I mearly mentioned a SA vs a DA because he mentioned a thumb issue and a concern with shooting magnum loads because of it. The SA grips are designed differently, and I suggested he might try one and see if it makes a difference.

I'm not suggesting that you haven't been advocating practice. Nor do I believe I've ever said such. I was simply commenting that practicing something fun is always easier than something that's not, which makes it more likely an individual will actually undertake practice regularly. Also, I believe there is an advantage to be gained by practicing will ammo that closely mimick the behavior of the intended carry ammo (especially where heavier recoiling loads are concerned). So if an SA gun allows him to practice with magnum loads which the DA prohibits due to his thumb issue, I see that as a benefit. That does not mean I don't see benefits to a DA revolver, or indeed a semi-auto pistol.

And as far as practicing clearing a jam goes, I think we all know a jam is an unlikely occurrence in the first place. And I think we also can imagine that a semi-auto jamming during a bear attack is not likely to result positively for the shooter, even if they practice clear a jam regularly.

 

[thomas15]

Also, I believe there is an advantage to be gained by practicing will ammo that closely mimick the behavior of the intended carry ammo (especially where heavier recoiling loads are concerned). So if an SA gun allows him to practice with magnum loads which the DA prohibits due to his thumb issue, I see that as a benefit. That does not mean I don't see benefits to a DA revolver, or indeed a semi-auto pistol.

It's not that I'm trying to pick a fight or anything. The OP makes mention of a budget issue. That being implied that he wants to accomplish many things with 1 or 2 firearms. That is the environment of this particular discussion.

 

[stingray4540]

This thread sure did get a lot more interesting than I anticipated it being.
Lots of good opinions and insites. Lots for me to think about.

 

[WrongHanded]

It's not that I'm trying to pick a fight or anything. The OP makes mention of a budget issue. That being implied that he wants to accomplish many things with 1 or 2 firearms. That is the environment of this particular discussion.

I'm not trying to pick a fight either. Just throwing out some options. I think a 10mm semi-auto is a versatile choice and would consider it myself for daily carry in such situations. But whether I'd go that route would depend on the nature of the "town". Frequent visits to a big town with lots of people would lead me to the 10mm. Fewer visits to a smaller quiet town would point me to a revolver. But that's just me.

 

[joe2golf]

I live in SW Montana and here's what works for me. 4" 629 in a Tucker Gunleather OWB and a Tucker 1.5" leather gun belt. Very comfortable all day. If I'm going somewhere that requires more concealment, I leave the 629 locked in the truck and put a .38 S&W 642 in my pocket while keeping the holster (empty) on my belt. I'm also fond of my Dan Wesson 10mm 1911 in stainless with Buffalo Bore flat nosed bullets. I wear it IWB and can go anywhere. For the carbine, a Marlin 45-70. Lots of money up front but my marriage has survived it

 

[stingray4540]

I live in SW Montana and here's what works for me. 4" 629 in a Tucker Gunleather OWB and a Tucker 1.5" leather gun belt. Very comfortable all day. If I'm going somewhere that requires more concealment, I leave the 629 locked in the truck and put a .38 S&W 642 in my pocket while keeping the holster (empty) on my belt. I'm also fond of my Dan Wesson 10mm 1911 in stainless with Buffalo Bore flat nosed bullets. I wear it IWB and can go anywhere. For the carbine, a Marlin 45-70. Lots of money up front but my marriage has survived it

Well, hey, you aren’t too far away then, I’m in far north idaho.

 

[joe2golf]

Beautiful country. I get over there once in a while. Been a pretty sporty season for bears this year. Glad I gave up bow hunting. Stay safe.

 

[stingray4540]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/791035837

If it doesn't have to be a magnum, there is one.
The Ruger is plenty strong enough to handle the Skeeter or Keith .44 Special loads, and they are plenty capable.

You sir, are a cruel, cruel, human being.
That is one of the sexiest non-single action revolvers I’ve ever seen. But, it’s an exclusive and currently out of stock. Karma will repay you my friend

 

[Arkansas Paul]

They still pop up on GB from time to time.
I love the look. I've been tempted a few times, but haven't pulled the trigger on one yet.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Then pick up a S&W M69 L frame in .44 Magnum.

 

[luzyfuerza]

If you're not completely bound to the lever action, you could consider a pump shotgun, loaded with slugs, as your long gun. A Mossberg 500 or Rem 870 is considerably cheaper, and, if it were me, I'd be much more likely to take a cheaper long gun beating around with me in the truck, utv, tractor, etc. than a much more expensive Marlin or Winchester.

The long gun IS for bear defense, not hunting, right?

For the handgun half of this question, a 4" N-frame in 45 Colt, 41 mag, or 44 mag, "loaded for bear", carried in a high ride OWB holster under a vest would be my suggestion.

 

[urbaneruralite]

Skip the N-Frames and longer barrels. The big guns are too big to carry all the time. You can get an S&W 69 .44 mag or a Ruger GP100 .44 Special. Hot .44 Special is the same as standard .44 mag. I carry these size guns regularly OWB in a leather holster on a sturdy leather belt. I recommend the snap loop holsters. They make taking the holster on and off quick so you're not stuck wearing a holster with no gun in it.

4" barrels will give you enough velocity without too much. That's the thing about longer barrels. They kick more because of more velocity. And they run slower than the 4". I can run my S&W 69 much faster than a longer barrel Redhawk.

If you have a real and present need to keep something hotter than standard 4" .44 mag about you, carry a carbine.

 

[RealGun]

Skip the N-Frames and longer barrels. The big guns are too big to carry all the time. You can get an S&W 69 .44 mag or a Ruger GP100 .44 Special. Hot .44 Special is the same as standard .44 mag. I carry these size guns regularly OWB in a leather holster on a sturdy leather belt. I recommend the snap loop holsters. They make taking the holster on and off quick so you're not stuck wearing a holster with no gun in it.

4" barrels will give you enough velocity without too much. That's the thing about longer barrels. They kick more because of more velocity. And they run slower than the 4". I can run my S&W 69 much faster than a longer barrel Redhawk.

If you have a real and present need to keep something hotter than standard 4" .44 mag about you, carry a carbine.

I find the big guns carry better as cross draw regardless of barrel length, because the weight is in the front of my pelvis rather than dragging down the rear of my britches. The Alaska shoulder rig is another great option with the gun very accessible at all times in most any position, most notably when seated.

44 Special and 44 Magnum load data do not show an overlap in performance. Magnum can be loaded down, but a Special platform is typically smaller than a magnum platform and has its limits. Specials can be loaded to max, but a true magnum is a different beast.

It does not match my experience and perception to say "longer barrels kick more". For starters, the longer gun has greater mass. If there is any difference in dwell time, I expect various factors cancel out how it feels to shoot. What I believe is that my shorter barrels in powerful guns are more of a handful than the same platform with longer barrel. I don't own one, but a great example is the Ruger Alaskan, which is basically a Super Redhawk with a chopped barrel. Shoot it at your own risk, but it is more packable.

 

[urbaneruralite]

I find the big guns carry better as cross draw regardless of barrel length, because the weight is in the front of my pelvis rather than dragging down the rear of my britches. The Alaska shoulder rig is another great option with the gun very accessible at all times in most any position, most notably when seated.

44 Special and 44 Magnum load data do not show an overlap in performance. Magnum can be loaded down, but a Special platform is typically smaller than a magnum platform and has its limits. Specials can be loaded to max, but a true magnum is a different beast.

It does not match my experience and perception to say "longer barrels kick more". For starters, the longer gun has greater mass. If there is any difference in dwell time, I expect various factors cancel out how it feels to shoot. What I believe is that my shorter barrels in powerful guns are more of a handful than the same platform with a longer barrel. I don't own one, but a great example is the Ruger Alaskan, which is basically a Super Redhawk with a chopped barrel. Shoot it at your own risk, but it is more packable.

General defensive carry is strong side on the hip. If you really want to carry a suboptimal gun, then why not a suboptimal carry method, but you're off in the weeds just having fun. I like my sq. revolver crossdraw with its longer barrel. That works great for sq. hunting, not defense.

You can run .44 Special up to standard .44 magnum. This isn't even a question. You can far exceed .44 Special with .44 magnum. That's why they made the magnum. We're not running that stuff fast on a charging bear. Really, if you need more than heavy .44 Spl, fast, you should have brought something with a buttstock.

Yes, a heavy gun does counter recoil, but a similar gun with just a longer barrel kicks more and spends more time in recoil. As for how quick a 69 is to run versus other options, I suggest spending some time on that if you're interested.

 

[RealGun]

General defensive carry is strong side on the hip. If you really want to carry a suboptimal gun, then why not a suboptimal carry method, but you're off in the weeds just having fun. I like my sq. revolver crossdraw with its longer barrel. That works great for sq. hunting, not defense.

You can run .44 Special up to standard .44 magnum. This isn't even a question. You can far exceed .44 Special with .44 magnum. That's why they made the magnum. We're not running that stuff fast on a charging bear. Really, if you need more than heavy .44 Spl, fast, you should have brought something with a buttstock.

Yes, a heavy gun does counter recoil, but a similar gun with just a longer barrel kicks more and spends more time in recoil. As for how quick a 69 is to run versus other options, I suggest spending some time on that if you're interested.

Looking at Hodgdon data, for example, and using a 200gr JHP as a common bullet, 44 Special breaks 1000fps on only one powder max, while 44 Rem Magnum is in the 1300-1700 fps range. What some loaders do off the books is not really the basis of a debate.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Make you own holster -- that's what I do.

I make a pancake style holster -- just two flaps of leather sewn together. The holster pouch is between the flaps and there are belt slots on either side of the pouch. It holds the gun high and tight against the body. If you like, you can make Kydex reverse-J hooks and attach then to the holster with Chicago screws (post screws). This converts the holster into a "tuckable" IWB design.

 

[Charlie98]

You can run .44 Special up to standard .44 magnum. This isn't even a question.

Uhhhh... not in my pistol you aren't. I consider that a reckless statement.

 

[stingray4540]

Uhhhh... not in my pistol you aren't. I consider that a reckless statement.

If you go to cheaper than dirt and type in .44 magnum, the first 4 options that come up are 240gr. At 1,300fps, 1,300fps, 1,100fps, and 1,100fps respectively.
Kieth and skeeter were running 250gr at 1,200fps out of the .44 special.
That is right there with standard .44 magnum. Of course you can go much, much higher with the magnum, but if you go to the range, rent a .44 magnum, they will hand you a box of 240gr at 1,100 to 1,300 FPS.
Based on that, I would say it’s a fair statement to say that special can be loaded up to magnum. Buffalo bore even offers 250@1,000 off the shelf for the special.

The 240@1,230 was no fun for me in the magnum, so safe to say I won’t be practicing with that load at all, and would likely only carry it as my bear round. If I’m gonna carry that as my bear round, why not carry it in a special? Seems to me that If I don’t plan to shoot anything more than 240@1,200, I will be fine with either the special or the magnum.
I didn’t have any fun with standard magnum. No way I’m gonna even touch 300gr@1,500fps. I’ll take my chances.

 

[Charlie98]

No way I’m gonna even touch 300gr@1,500fps

I'll have to agree with you on that.

When you say .44MAG loads, I think of what a full-power .44MAG load is... not a hot .44SPC. It's sort of a shell game... loading heavy .44SPC and calling it or comparing it to a .44MAG 'standard' load. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but full-house .44MAG is the 'standard' .44MAG loading... that's what a .44MAG is.

 

[RealGun]

If you go to cheaper than dirt and type in .44 magnum, the first 4 options that come up are 240gr. At 1,300fps, 1,300fps, 1,100fps, and 1,100fps respectively.
Kieth and skeeter were running 250gr at 1,200fps out of the .44 special.
That is right there with standard .44 magnum. Of course you can go much, much higher with the magnum, but if you go to the range, rent a .44 magnum, they will hand you a box of 240gr at 1,100 to 1,300 FPS.
Based on that, I would say it’s a fair statement to say that special can be loaded up to magnum. Buffalo bore even offers 250@1,000 off the shelf for the special.

The 240@1,230 was no fun for me in the magnum, so safe to say I won’t be practicing with that load at all, and would likely only carry it as my bear round. If I’m gonna carry that as my bear round, why not carry it in a special? Seems to me that If I don’t plan to shoot anything more than 240@1,200, I will be fine with either the special or the magnum.
I didn’t have any fun with standard magnum. No way I’m gonna even touch 300gr@1,500fps. I’ll take my chances.

The 44 Special NM Blackhawk is a smaller frame than the 44 Magnum and a smaller frame than Elmer Keith would have been using. I am going to presume that Ruger believes 44 Magnum level loadings are not safe in a 44 Special gun. You can have your theories, but they should be presented fully qualified, or someone who knows no better will choose to load outside data published by powder and bullet companies with responsible testing capabilities. There simply are different classes of 44 Special guns,, so any loading of 44 Special off the books should be fired in a 44 Magnum gun.