.40 S&W the bullet of the new millenium

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So, first of all I love .40s/w infact my next gun purchase will be the Springfield XD in .40cal, an old timer told me that a .40 was a necked down 10mm because 10mm is a propriatary caliber owned by Glock. Reading this thread I think he may have been wrong but I still have only seen 10mm in Glocks, does anybody else make 10mm guns?
Click to expand...

Look up at my post. In addition to my Glock 29 10mm I have a Kimber Stainless Target II 10mm and just bought a S&W 610 10mm revolver. Other 10mm include the Colt Delta Elite, EAA Witness, the Bren Ten, Dan Wesson Razor Back, and a number of S&W models.

Here is a link with many more:
http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mm06.html

Here is a link with detailed info on the creation of 10mm:
http://marina.fortunecity.com/harbour/347/10mm01.html

The .40 isn't "necked down." The 10mm and .40S&W both use a .401 diameter bullet. The casing for the .40 is just a little bit shorter than the 10mm's casing, much like the .38spl and the .357 magnum. The major benefit that came from using the slightly smaller .40S&W casing with less powder charge than the 10mm was that the 40S&W could be designed on a 9mm platform frame. This resulted in a round more powerful than 9mm (in many cases close to .45acp) with a magazine capacity almost as great as the 9mm.
 
I rely on my three .40's because they have more rounds than comparable .45 guns and I can shoot heavier bullets than any 9mm.
 
We gunowners are a fickle bunch. It's quite amazing that the .40 S&W enjoys such popularity. It is truly the new kid on the block along side of the 9mm Luger, .45 ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum and .380 ACP--which are all rather aged old farts compared to this teenager.

The search for how to cram a .357 Magnum into a 9mm casing has been afoot for 20 years--maybe more. 9mm +P+, 9mm AE, .356 TSW, .357 SIG, and 9x23 are some of the efforts. IMHO, the .356 TSW probably came closest to actually doing it.

Eventually, it simply became a matter of size and filling in the blank. The 9mm Mama Bear and .45 ACP Papa Bear led to the .40 S&W Baby Bear.
 
Both the 9mm and 40S&w are fine. They offer low recoil and are suitable for woman LEO and FBI to be able to qualify....Real men use the 10mm....
 
I own several 40 cal Glocks which I really like but I see a trend especially by LEO's to go to 45 cal. I like mine but I also feel more comfortable with a 45. Steve 48
 
If I had to choose one caliber that had to serve recreational and defensive purposes, I would choose .40. 9mm would be second choice.

K
 
Can't speak to "cartridge of the future" stuff; can only talk of my own experience.

When I decided to pursue a defensive handgun, I first decided that I wanted a semi-auto. Then I started reading up on cartridges. I was biased against the 9mm by my next door neighbor, a MD State Trooper, who didn't like the "wonder nine," claiming it was underpowered and citing stories of bad guys taking lots of 9mm hits and still carrying on the fight. I don't recall him ever saying what he would prefer, just that he didn't like the 9mm.

So I started reading. Read all about the development of the 10mm, and then the .40 S&W (10mm Kurz?). Sounded right, so I bought my first dedicated defensive handgun in .40 S&W. It's still my preferred CCW and training round. But I will admit to owning a Kahr PM9 (9mm), as I like it's diminuitive size. I even carry a Kel-Tec P32 in some circumstances. Don't know why I never really considered the .45 ACP. Still don't have one in the safe.

At this point, since I'm happy with what I have, I don't see the need to keep looking ...
 
I have one (Beretta 96) and it's my least favorite pistol. Snappy recoil. Much more pleasurable to shoot my Glock 20 or Dan Wesson Pointman 10mm.
 
.40S&W to me is a good trade off round, it packs more punch than a 9mm and has less recoil than a .45acp. But for what it's worth I got rid of my Ruger .40 and then latter got rid of my Glock 10mm, then bought and sold a Glock 22 when I missed the .40, for now I'm just to staying with 2 pistol calibers - 9 & .45

The Glock 20, a 10mm, will reliablely feed, chamber, shoot and eject .40S&W, from the same mags with the same 10mm barrel; I'm told it's a better Idea to buy a 22 .40S&W barrel when doing this, but it never gave me a problem, and served as a dual caliber weapon. The M20 is a full sized gun, I don't know if there's a midsize or compact version of it, been away from the Glocks for some time now.

For now in my youthfull age, I carry a 4" 1911 .45acp - I am a sick bird, and usally CCW wearing a sweatshirt or light jacket, printing will equal a felony. The High Cap issue doesn't really entertain me, with 8 rounds of 230gr +p Corbon.

Grandpa said "you stick a forty-five round in a man, he's going down".
 
I have a 9mm, I have a .40S&W and I have a .45ACP. I carry the .45ACP.

Why?? Performance is everything (hmmm... I think that's Les Baer Custom's sig line) and the .45ACP outperforms both the 9mm and the .40S&W.

Just last night, I shot a pumpkin in my back yard with a Federal EFMJ .45ACP
+P 200g. load, launched out of my Glock 21 (4.4" barrel). The results? Exit "wound" dimensions were 1/2" x 1", bullet retained 100% of original weight and expanded to .75" Now THAT'S impressive. And my Glock 21 will carry a full load of 14 of these rounds.

I would expect this round to be more effective at stopping an attacker than either a similar round in 9mm or .40S&W. With the Glock 21 and the Springfield XD45, you have the performance of the .45ACP and the high capacity of a wondernine - the best of all attributes. Given that, I can see no benefit to carrying a pistol chambered for a smaller round.
 
Let me add something about the 10mm. As a 10mm reloader one can always reduce the powder charge in 10mm rounds to achieve ballistics very similar to the .40S&W with (thanks to the larger 10mm frame) very low, and in some cases hardly any, recoil. If your goal is a pint sized highly concealable pocket pistol or IWB pistol then .40S&W is great (hince my Sig P239, Glock 27 and Kahr PM40). On the other hand, if you want a reasonably concealable versitile gun that can be used to push hot loads as powerful as a .41 magnum for hunting or with just a quick change of magazines push reduced loads with very litlle recoil for range shooting or plinking, then the 10mm wins hands down.


* As a side note. I have always been a big .45acp fan but after falling for the 10mm I find very few reasons for carrying a .45acp. Don't get me wrong, I still love the accuracy of a well tuned 1911 as range gun, but for carry purposes a 10mm is much more powerful with a higher magazine capacity.
 
.40 s&w is a good round. it wasn't highly welcomed at first, but its grown quite popular in recent years. 10mm would be great, however, factory loads are almost equal to .40 s&w and cost twice as much. if i could buy 100rds of 10mm at walmart for $17 then id say it was a good alternative. 9mm is probably more popular then .45, and if you look at its history, it was the NAZI round.
 
9mm is less "jumpy" in terms of recoil than a .40 (to me anyway). I started off with a full-size 1911 .45ACP as my primary carry gun, then down to a compact .40S&W. The .40 was too jumpy, and I found that I can put 5 or 6 rounds of 9mm on target faster than I can put 2 or 3 rounds of .40 on the same target.

Think, when confronted by a threat in a dark alley, would you rather shoot your .40 "pow", realign sights, "pow" again...

Or pull out your puny 9mm "Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow Pow" in a 3" circle COM?

Shoot whatever you're more accurate and effective with. I figue if it's worth shooting, it's worth shooting more than once.
 
I started out with a SIG 229 in .40. At first, I thought it was a little too "punchy." Then, a funny thing --- I re-acquired an old WWII 1911, and got a new SA one. I found that the .45 got me shooting the .40 better. Different kind of felt recoil, and the .45 seemed more like doing slow weight-lifting.

Long story short (oh, sure!): Now I'm back "in love" with the 229. It can rapid-fire holes into a satisfactorily small circle. (With a LaserMax it becomes uncanny.)

My SA XD sub in 9mm seems like too much density for the number and caliber of cartridges; it shoots great, but now it feels like a popgun. Probably marginally more controllable. I have a good friend with the same gun in .40, and he swears it's a puddy-tat to shoot. (He's also a pretty large guy.)

My paws are all palm. A 229 packed with .40's fits; a high-cap .45 does not (at least, not comfortably). The 229 carries 11 rounds (in jolly NY); the 1911 carries 8 (cocked & locked, which I'm not a fan of).

So, I've come full-circle. The last one I'd ever get rid of is the 229 (.40).
 
Different posters got different points right...the .40 caught on like wild-fire -it was a huge success real quick in LE, especially as the more it got picked up the cheaper it got. Many LE were NOT happy with the 9mm - there was a constant search for the "best" round...115 vs 147 vs +p vs. +P+ vs. subsonic - and there were no clear winners, which meant all were 'subpar' - not much of a wonder after all. Now think about shooting .40 or 9mm in basically the same full-size duty/service gun (using the same holsters), and where recoil is NOT an issue in either case. I couldn't swap my 92 for a 96 fast enough! Yes, the 10mm had climbed a little when the FBI briefly resurrected it, but it still required a full-length grip, the weapons choice was small, the ammo expensive (especially after the recent temporary exodus to 9mm), and departments didn't have time to jump on the wagon before quickly the .40 was spouted as THE round, backed by no less then the F B I. This time though the results met the hype, and the round since has pretty much matched or exceded its expectations.

Along comes the AWB and civilians can have only 10 rounds of 9mm or 10 rounds of .40 - still in mid/large size guns (most subcompacts were .380 or smaller). No wonder so many chose the bigger caliber.

Now with subcompacts, polymers, lightweights, CCWs, ammo improvements, the AWB sunset, etc., the 9mm is hanging in there again, but my dealer STILL says many people won't even look at the 9s (in NY though, so capacity is still an issue). I WAS that way, till I wanted something small, and finally was open minded enough to compare how the recoil is in .40 vs 9mm in similiar smaller pieces. Now I let the platform I want dictate the caliber to shoot it in.
 
I Have 2 .40 cal handguns right now and there are only three other handguns i can see me owning in the consivable future and they all will be .40 cal as well. a taurus pt1911, xd sub compact, and tactical model. those that I own that aren't .40 will be sold or traded in the near future. except the ruger 22/45 of course because it is a great trainning aid and a hoot to shoot. :)

why do you shoot .40 cal? beats me, but i know why i shoot it.

1) ammo economy, it is a little more expensive than 9mm yes but definetly less than .45 price wise and since most of my shooting is done through the xd, i use lead which also cuts down on cost.

2) i like to have as few as calibers as possible so that way i buy only a few types of ammo, and once i start reloading i can have a progressive press for handgun and be set.

3) with a .40 handgun you get more capacity than a .45acp, and more knock down power than, the, 9mm.

4) since i have small hands, it is great that the .40 cal fits into the same frame size as the 9mm handguns which is a big plus for me.

5) the final and most important reason in which i can think of right now is the fact that I am comfortable with the cartridge, and it works for me. I love the .40s&w and plan to shoot it forever!
 
According to the History Channel, the 9mm was not really invented, but was a kludge to slavage most of George Lugers tooling investment after the German Army accepted the pistol but only if made in a larger caliber than the original .30 Mauser round he used initially. He also made a pair of Lugers in .45ACP for the US Army who demanded a .45 but after the German Army accepted his 9mm he had more business than he could handle and withdrew from the US trials. The remaining .45 Luger gun (one was destroyed in testing, and there are Chinese knock-offs) is said to be a "million dollar gun". The 9mm pre-dates the Nazi's and was chosen by the Kaiser before WWI.

All these years I'd though the 9mm was a careful optimization giving about the same muzzle energy as the .45ACP with a cartridge of half the weight. But we all know there is more to it than just muzzle enegry for handguns.

I really like the .40S&W for sub-compacts, prefer .45ACP in full sized guns, and shoot lots of 9mm because its about as cheap to buy as .45 or .40 is to reload. All three work for me.

--wally.
 
The .40 has a place, just like all the other most common pistol calibers. While smaller than the .45, it is faster and can be loaded for some real speed. No, it won't compare favorably to the mighty 10mm, but then nothing short of a magnum will, not even the hallowed .45 (one of my favorites). But 10mm costs more all the time due to a lesser production level. Unless of course, you have the knowledge, skill, time, and money to reload. I don't. I love the 10, and will have another some time (Glock 20, baby!), but I'll stick with 9s, 40s, and .45s for autoloaders. Ammo is and will be much more widely available, no matter where I go, which is important to me. I like the .40, there's nothing "weak" about it. That's like a .500 magnum shooter saying that .44 magnum is weak. But you cannot deny the results of a .44 and NOBODY wants to get shot by one, now do they? Same can be said of the .40 S&W. It's just a choice, and this round has been proven to be effective. So has the 9mm.

And since when does shooting pumpkins prove anything important? I've shot one with an Aguila hyper velocity .22lr fired out of a Phoenix Arms pistol. The exit hole (oh yes, it went right through it) was greater than the diameter of a .38 easily. But you won't see me carrying that around unless it's all I've got...
 
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