I am looking to load 2.5 in 410 shot shells for a taurus judge with #1 shot and I was wondering what are my options for powder as I'm not sure if I should use a fast burning powder for the short barrel or stick with a slow burning. And if so what powder? My next is how much shot in oz is safe? While I'm not new to reloading I am new to reloading 410. any answers will be appreciated thanks to all in advance
410 powder options
- Thread starter samuelcmm
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witchhunter
Member
I use H-110 or W296 in mine, but I only use them in a shotgun with 9 shot.
blarby
Member
h110/296, lilgun, 4227, 4198
I've never used 4227m but it is listed in some older manuals.
I have used H110/296, Lil'gun, amd H4198 when I couldn't find H110 or lil'gun.
I prefer H110.
Stick to published data- and it's hard to go astray.
Shot is shot; birdshot is birdshot and buckshot is buckshot. Buckshot is usually a stacking issue vs a weight issue in most hulls. use the recommended loads for your wad and hull type.
#1 shot, I'm assuming you mean buckshot, not birdshot, is not going to load well. You will have issues creating enough backpressure for reliable combustion due to the way it stacks. Not a lot of room in there !
Buckshot is not birdshot when it comes to load data. Generally, the fewer the number of projectiles, the less pressure results in a given load.
If you want to load buck for 410, there is a lot of data out there for 000- I'd try that.
I've never used 4227m but it is listed in some older manuals.
I have used H110/296, Lil'gun, amd H4198 when I couldn't find H110 or lil'gun.
I prefer H110.
Stick to published data- and it's hard to go astray.
Shot is shot; birdshot is birdshot and buckshot is buckshot. Buckshot is usually a stacking issue vs a weight issue in most hulls. use the recommended loads for your wad and hull type.
#1 shot, I'm assuming you mean buckshot, not birdshot, is not going to load well. You will have issues creating enough backpressure for reliable combustion due to the way it stacks. Not a lot of room in there !
Buckshot is not birdshot when it comes to load data. Generally, the fewer the number of projectiles, the less pressure results in a given load.
If you want to load buck for 410, there is a lot of data out there for 000- I'd try that.
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blarby
Member
Ahh, loading for a judginator, eh ?
Just out of curiosity, what is your source on the #1 birdshot ?
Also...range ? Are you hunting, or ?
The 4" bbls were primarily designed for self-defense loadings of buckshot. Not really designed for long range trap loads, ya know !
Just out of curiosity, what is your source on the #1 birdshot ?
Also...range ? Are you hunting, or ?
The 4" bbls were primarily designed for self-defense loadings of buckshot. Not really designed for long range trap loads, ya know !
gamestalker
member
I've only loaded a few times for ,410, and I used a friends 600 Jr.. I found a published recipe, which was a 296 powder recipe, some #8 or #9 shot.
Just get your hands on some published recipes, then pick the one that uses the components you have in your inventory or can get your hands on. But I wouldn't go devising your own recipe, shots hell is nothing at all similar to loading metallic. No work up / development is recommended, and is stringently just use the recipe as published and you'll be safe, and good to go.
GS
Just get your hands on some published recipes, then pick the one that uses the components you have in your inventory or can get your hands on. But I wouldn't go devising your own recipe, shots hell is nothing at all similar to loading metallic. No work up / development is recommended, and is stringently just use the recipe as published and you'll be safe, and good to go.
GS
Patocazador
Member
Birdshot in a rifled barrel is almost useless past 10-15 feet. My T/C Contender taught me that.
loose noose
Member
I use WW296 as well as H110, I've never heard of #1 shot. Incidentally I use a Mec 600 Jr. press. What type of wad are you going to use? I do believe that #2 shot is basically the same as BB just a bit smaller.
Here is the shot
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/402707/bpi-steel-shot-1-10-lb-bag
And I thank you all for the information I have also been looking into load data and is a half once of shot the maximum safe load for a 2.5 in shell?
and @blarby Its for rats there everywhere this year at about 10 yards the #4 will roll em but not kill them.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/402707/bpi-steel-shot-1-10-lb-bag
And I thank you all for the information I have also been looking into load data and is a half once of shot the maximum safe load for a 2.5 in shell?
and @blarby Its for rats there everywhere this year at about 10 yards the #4 will roll em but not kill them.
#1 or size B shot is about the optimum size for stacking in a 410 shell. Just like 00 buck is in 12 gauge. You get 3 pellets in a triangle. Depending on the wad and hull thickness sizes between #2 and BB work. You'll probably need to hand stack for optimum fill.
The shot you linked to is steel. Is that intended? I'd be afraid with what steel shot may do to your barrel. It is also ballistically inferior to lead (will perform similarly to #3 or #4 lead shot with fewer pellets). Here's a link to a source of shot from #1 (.16" dia) to super buck (.5" dia): http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Shot-Lead-1-8-lb_jar-160/productinfo/SBK160/
Another powder choice for 410 is 2400.
The shot you linked to is steel. Is that intended? I'd be afraid with what steel shot may do to your barrel. It is also ballistically inferior to lead (will perform similarly to #3 or #4 lead shot with fewer pellets). Here's a link to a source of shot from #1 (.16" dia) to super buck (.5" dia): http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Shot-Lead-1-8-lb_jar-160/productinfo/SBK160/
Another powder choice for 410 is 2400.
blarby
Member
Ahh, #1 steel.
Things just got more confusing !
Things just got more confusing !
The barrel is of no concern as I said the intended purpose is rats. I hoping to get a little more out of steel vs lead shot here is the link I was reading.
http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.steelvslead.html
Would lead give me better range I was thinking the lighter steel would. But I've been wrong many time before
And @ suemarkp that is why I wanted #1 or #B as my educated guess I thought I could stack em in there Im glad to know I was on the right track
http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.steelvslead.html
Would lead give me better range I was thinking the lighter steel would. But I've been wrong many time before
And @ suemarkp that is why I wanted #1 or #B as my educated guess I thought I could stack em in there Im glad to know I was on the right track
Whose #4 load are you using? The federal load made for the Judge is the best #4 load I've found - the shot is harder and their wad makes a tighter pattern than just about anyone else's load. The regular Fedal blue box #4 load is just as mediocre as everyone else's #4 load in the Judge. See the Federal "410 handgun" #4 shot box at this link for what the box looks like: http://410handguns.com/410_federal_ammunition.html
Most of the info in the steel -vs- lead atricle I'd say goes out the window with a judge. Its forcing cone and barrel don't compress anything -- they are larger than the normal .410 bore shotgun (e.g. .451 -vs- .410). Shot deformation doesn't affect Judge patterns, its the darn rifling in the barrel.
About the only payload you can do for .410 is 1/2 oz. Steel would weight less, and I've never seen load data for .410 steel. You need to follow the load manual and a too short or too long shot column won't allow the crimp to be correct.
#1 steel is going to penetrate about the same as #4 lead. The performance of #1 steel -vs #4 lead is pretty much the same. Steel is harder, but less dense, and density is what you want for penetration in flesh. But #1 is larger than #4 so that makes up for the lack in density. You will have less pellets in a #1 load than a #4 load however.
Pattern density is another problem. As the range gets longer, the pattern opens up greatly, especially from a Judge. Smaller pellets mean more hits, but each hit has less penetration. You need to see what the problem is with the rats -- poor hits, or poor penetration. I would think a #4 would penetrate just fine on a rat at 10 yards unless these are the huge one the size of a shoe box.
If you want better performance, try heavishot (there are different densities of heavishot and I think all are more dense than lead by some more so). Heavishot is also harder than lead but not as hard as steel. Heavishot #4 or #5 may be what you need. But what you really need is the wad Federal uses in this #4 410 handgun load as I cannot duplicate their patterns in my handloads. You could also try a .444 marlin case as it will hold more shot (and try with and without a wad). But you're on your own for load data.
Most of the info in the steel -vs- lead atricle I'd say goes out the window with a judge. Its forcing cone and barrel don't compress anything -- they are larger than the normal .410 bore shotgun (e.g. .451 -vs- .410). Shot deformation doesn't affect Judge patterns, its the darn rifling in the barrel.
About the only payload you can do for .410 is 1/2 oz. Steel would weight less, and I've never seen load data for .410 steel. You need to follow the load manual and a too short or too long shot column won't allow the crimp to be correct.
#1 steel is going to penetrate about the same as #4 lead. The performance of #1 steel -vs #4 lead is pretty much the same. Steel is harder, but less dense, and density is what you want for penetration in flesh. But #1 is larger than #4 so that makes up for the lack in density. You will have less pellets in a #1 load than a #4 load however.
Pattern density is another problem. As the range gets longer, the pattern opens up greatly, especially from a Judge. Smaller pellets mean more hits, but each hit has less penetration. You need to see what the problem is with the rats -- poor hits, or poor penetration. I would think a #4 would penetrate just fine on a rat at 10 yards unless these are the huge one the size of a shoe box.
If you want better performance, try heavishot (there are different densities of heavishot and I think all are more dense than lead by some more so). Heavishot is also harder than lead but not as hard as steel. Heavishot #4 or #5 may be what you need. But what you really need is the wad Federal uses in this #4 410 handgun load as I cannot duplicate their patterns in my handloads. You could also try a .444 marlin case as it will hold more shot (and try with and without a wad). But you're on your own for load data.
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I load a lot of steel loads and you need to stay away from the steel in the 410 unless you have the correct wad and powder/load. Steel is a lot lighter than lead, so your perceived 1/2 oz load will probably be less than 3/8 oz. The published loads are for 1/2 to 3/4 oz lead. If you try to stack the volume of 1/2 oz of steel #1 shot into a 410 hull, the lighter weight will make the pressure unpredictable. If you do it, let us know how it worked out,
I use 3/4 oz lead in 3" hulls and have excellent patterns and luck hunting birds with them out of a NEF survivor 410/45 Colt out past 25 yards. Usually I use 7 1/2 shot, but I do load #6 and #4 as well. The survivor has a rifled barrel, but with the 410, you need to use a special choke to stop the wad and shot from spinning. I thought that the contenders came with that same choke, but maybe some do not. I bet without it in a rifled barrel, it would not pattern for nothing!
I use 3/4 oz lead in 3" hulls and have excellent patterns and luck hunting birds with them out of a NEF survivor 410/45 Colt out past 25 yards. Usually I use 7 1/2 shot, but I do load #6 and #4 as well. The survivor has a rifled barrel, but with the 410, you need to use a special choke to stop the wad and shot from spinning. I thought that the contenders came with that same choke, but maybe some do not. I bet without it in a rifled barrel, it would not pattern for nothing!
TimSr
Member
Steel is less potent than lead, which was the big argument against it for waterfowl. Also, when shooting shot through a rifled barrel, the higher teh velocity, teh worse your pattern will scatter. For rats stick with a small shot that gives you a lot more pellets, for a tighter pattern. You rifling makes all the nromal shotgun pattern factors insignificant. Id use #9 (preferably), or #8 which will give you plenty of velocity to penetrate at up to 40 feet, though your shot pattern will likely limit you to about 20'.
Follow standard .410 load recipes. Conventional wisdom says faster powders will work better from a pistol, but conventional experience says otherwise. Pick the lowest velocity loads you can find, with the largest charge of shot, and wads that will accomodate the load.
Follow standard .410 load recipes. Conventional wisdom says faster powders will work better from a pistol, but conventional experience says otherwise. Pick the lowest velocity loads you can find, with the largest charge of shot, and wads that will accomodate the load.
quartermaster
Member
296 has been my .410 go to powder for 20+ years. Never felt the need to look into any other.
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