45 acp large vs small primer question

[ASP]

Does the size of the primer affect your recipe for a round? Ex. 230gr xtp 45 acp with 6 gr unique. ((large pistol primer ) Winchester case. Vs 230 gr xtp 45 acp with 6 gr unique ( small pistol primer ) Winchester case. Would these two rounds perform basically the same ?

(This is a hypothetical question…I don’t think that Winchester even makes a small primer 45 acp case )

Thanks

 

[Bill_in_TR]

I don't know the answer to your question since I only use large pistol primer brass. But you might try posting in the handloading and reloading forum.

 

[Dan-O]

I personally don’t think it makes a difference at least for weak to middle of the road rounds. If i were going wild and close to max, I’d maybe back it off 10%

 

[dh1633pm]

Whoever choose to make large and small primer 45 acp needs to be cursed forever with mixed small and large primer brass. As far as I can tell there is no real difference. Don’t call me an expert. Just know the impact of this curse. Trying to stuff a large primer into a spot designed for a small.

 

[dannyd]

You can't tell the difference unless someone tells you, this is nothing new 357 magnum in 1935 started off with large primers and changed to small as primers improved. Now the same with 45 acp and there will be others joining in the future because of new manufacturing.

Loaded 1200 in 2023, they were shot from 1911's and revolver's.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

You can't tell the difference unless someone tells you, this is nothing new 357 magnum in 1935 started off with large primers and changed to small as primers improved. Now the same with 45 acp and there will be others joining in the future because of new manufacturing.

Loaded 1200 in 2023, they were shot from 1911's and revolver's.

I can tell the difference when I am reloading. It is not fun when you have large pistol primers in your load tube and a case with a small pistol primer pocket gets to the priming station. Trying to sort through your brass is a PITA and it is easy to miss something. I have 5 gallon buckets of 45 ACP brass I have accumulated over the years collected at ranges I have shot at.

 

[dannyd]

I can tell the difference when I am reloading. It is not fun when you have large pistol primers in your load tube and a case with a small pistol primer pocket gets to the priming station. Trying to sort through your brass is a PITA and it is easy to miss something. I have 5 gallon buckets of 45 ACP brass I have accumulated over the years collected at ranges I have shot at.

I got ride of all the large brass and now only have small primer. Easier on me too, because small pistol seats easier too.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Another vote for no difference. LOAD N GO!

 

[gudaki]

Does the size of the primer affect your recipe for a round? Ex. 230gr xtp 45 acp with 6 gr unique. ((large pistol primer ) Winchester case. Vs 230 gr xtp 45 acp with 6 gr unique ( small pistol primer ) Winchester case. Would these two rounds perform basically the same ?

(This is a hypothetical question…I don’t think that Winchester even makes a small primer 45 acp case )

Thanks

I make no changes to my loads and can't tell the difference between the two.

 

[JohnMc]

There's small primer 10mm out there as well. They probably save a fraction of a penny per round; make a few million or billion rounds and it adds up.

 

[243winxb]

https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/small-pistol-primers-vs-large-pistol-primers/

Large, more velocity

 

[9mmepiphany]

It is not fun when you have large pistol primers in your load tube and a case with a small pistol primer pocket gets to the priming station. Trying to sort through your brass is a PITA and it is easy to miss something.

The obvious solution is to only load SPP .45ACP. When a LPP case sneaks in, you can feel the difference (lack of resistance), The good thing is that you haven't smashed a primmer because the SPP didn't touch the walls of the primer pocket at all

 

[Bill_in_TR]

The obvious solution is to only load SPP .45ACP. When a LPP case sneaks in, you can feel the difference (lack of resistance), The good thing is that you haven't smashed a primmer because the SPP didn't touch the walls of the primer pocket at all

The problem with that approach, for me anyway, is that I have a lot of brass almost all of which was gathered with large primer pockets. The number of small pockets is miniscule but enough to cause the aggravation. And I am not going to throw away all that brass. I try to be very careful about looking closely at my brass as I put it on the shell plate. And I also try to carefully inspect my brass after tumbling. But sometimes one of those small pockets slips through. I haven't yet caused a primer to go off because I have noticed the extra resistance during the priming stroke on my LNL. i'm sorry but I will never understand the need to have two different sized primer pockets for the same brass no matter how they try to explain it.

 

[dh1633pm]

I got ride of all the large brass and now only have small primer. Easier on me too, because small pistol seats easier too.

I'd be happy to send my small's to you for free. Cursed as they are.

 

[OS/N]

Biggest difference is smalls are easy to come by and just large not so much I load everything with small pockets with SRP.

In the 45acp if you don't see any difference in shot groups or impact elevation I wouldn't be concerned. If they hit higher or more scattered out reduce a tenth or two and visa versa. If you are loaded max +p you may want to rework the load from scratch.

IMO there is more difference in a make change than in a size change.

 

[dannyd]

I'd be happy to send my small's to you for free. Cursed as they are.

I have a couple of thousand, so I am good. It's the way of the future, so if you shoot a lot (12,696 rounds for 2023) you only have to have one or two kinds of primers on the self. I have use small rifle primers in my revolver for 30 years and usually get a better SD, so now I just look for Small rifle or pistol and I am good to go.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

I have a couple of thousand, so I am good. It's the way of the future, so if you shoot a lot (12,696 rounds for 2023) you only have to have one or two kinds of primers on the self. I have use small rifle primers in my revolver for 30 years and usually get a better SD, so now I just look for Small rifle or pistol and I am good to go.

That is a nice approach if you can do it. But my inventory of brass and LPP has been accumulated over a lot of years and it just isn't in my budget to make a wholesale change. If I shot the volumes you do it might be something I could gradually transition to. But there are a lot of us out here that shoot enough to make reloading worthwhile that accumulated inventory the way I did. Wait until all us old folks are gone and you can live in your small pistol primer world in peace.

 

[Charlie98]

i'm sorry but I will never understand the need to have two different sized primer pockets for the same brass no matter how they try to explain it.

Ask the benchrest rifle guys... there is a reason some rifle brass is made with small primer pockets. As far as pistol brass... there is likely very little difference in a low-pressure round like the .45ACP. Someone mentioned the 10mm, which can operate at nearly twice the pressure of the .45ACP; I'll bet there are certain instances where SPP's over LPP's could make a difference.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

Ask the benchrest rifle guys... there is a reason some rifle brass is made with small primer pockets. As far as pistol brass... there is likely very little difference in a low-pressure round like the .45ACP. Someone mentioned the 10mm, which can operate at nearly twice the pressure of the .45ACP; I'll bet there are certain instances where SPP's over LPP's could make a difference.

All well and good but benchrest guys don't load the volumes at a time on progressive presses. And they meticulously prep each round of rifle brass to be as identical as possible. I doubt any of them need to be concerned about two different primer sizes getting mixed up.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

At any rate I've pretty much said what I have to say on it. But I owe the OP an apology for somewhat hijacking the thread from the intended subject.

 

[dannyd]

That is a nice approach if you can do it. But my inventory of brass and LPP has been accumulated over a lot of years and it just isn't in my budget to make a wholesale change. If I shot the volumes you do it might be something I could gradually transition to. But there are a lot of us out here that shoot enough to make reloading worthwhile that accumulated inventory the way I did. Wait until all us old folks are gone and you can live in your small pistol primer world in peace.

I have a Medicare card, so I don't think your that much older then me and still shooting. I change with the times as far as technology is concerned.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

I have a Medicare card, so I don't think your that much older then me and still shooting. I change with the times as far as technology is concerned.

Well I prefer the idea that if it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[dannyd]

Well I prefer the idea that if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Spoken like a True Old Guy.

 

[dannyd]

Primer definitely change the velocity depending on the load, but in the battle against Paper and Cardboard, I have found out though testing that's it's make little difference between 7 and 50 yards.

 

[entropy]

Biggest difference is I have plenty smalls and just a few large. I load everything with small pockets with SRP.

In the 45acp if you don't see any difference in shot groups or impact elevation I wouldn't be concerned. If they hit higher or more scattered out reduce a tenth or two and visa versa. If you are loaded max +p you may want to rework the load from scratch. If you see some power sparks at the breach in a 1911 you are too hot and working the action too hard - its a blow back and the action is opening before the powder is burned.

IMO there is more difference in a make change than in a size change.

Difference in primer size shouldn't cause the problem you describe, which is correctly called firing out of battery. Difference between Rifle and Pistol primers may cause such, however. If you are playing with rifle primers at max +P loads, there is a chance of winning stupid prizes, as the saying goes. The 1911 is not a blowback operated pistol, it is a locked breech. That's what those rings above the chamber are for.