45 acp large vs small primer question

[bangswitch]

I make no distinction between large and small primer in my .45 Auto loads. Powder type/amount and case length make it unnecessary. I do separate my loaded large/small primer ammo, to make it easier when sorting and cleaning for reloading, but use the same data.

 

[JJFitch]

https://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/small-pistol-primers-vs-large-pistol-primers/

Large, more velocity

Very interesting data. Contradicts some previously published information! To be sure your specific recipe will have to be measured to be absolutely sure!

 

[dannyd]

Very interesting data. Contradicts some previously published information! To be sure your specific recipe will have to be measured to be absolutely sure!

It does really contradict the data, because it depends on the load. Mouse Fart act differently then so called real loads. The difference in velocity actually helps when shooting at Paper and Cardboard, because the recoil is even less.

My SIL is the 45 acp guy in the family, he as revolvers and semiautomatic. He shot these today with his S&W wheel gun. Those are the Argentina primers.

 

[.45Coltguy]

I'd be happy to send my small's to you for free. Cursed as they are.

Well, heck. I'd take 'em. I just shoot empty cans and dirt clods in the desert. Nothing fancy.

 

[Dan-O]

I'd be happy to send my small's to you for free. Cursed as they are.

I’ll pay the shipping

 

[Blue68f100]

I've crony the LP vs SP in the past. The LP will give you ~15-25 fps more over a SP. I can not feel the difference shooting them but there is a small difference.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Whoever choose to make large and small primer 45 acp needs to be cursed forever with mixed small and large primer brass. As far as I can tell there is no real difference. Don’t call me an expert. Just know the impact of this curse. Trying to stuff a large primer into a spot designed for a small.

Yep, a special place in hell for whoever came up with this. Especially since I've a big stock of standard brass and large primers. Any small pistol cases found when loading go straight to the scrap brass. Grrrrrrr.
Moon

 

[9mmepiphany]

a special place in hell for whoever came up with this. Especially since I've a big stock of standard brass and large primers.

That is how i built up my stash of SPP cases. I think I have about 5k now divided between Blazer, Federal, and Speer. I still save W-W and Starline LPP cases

Folks who only loaded LPP would give me any SPP cases they found while processing. I used to offer to trade LPP cases for SPP cases at 1:2 but most would just give them to me. My biggest haul was someone who bought 3k "once fired" .45ACP cases and about 30% turned out to be SPP...I do now give him various LPP cases I pick up at matches

 

[halfmoonclip]

That is how i built up my stash of SPP cases. I think I have about 5k now divided between Blazer, Federal, and Speer. I still save W-W and Starline LPP cases

Folks who only loaded LPP would give me any SPP cases they found while processing. I used to offer to trade LPP cases for SPP cases at 1:2 but most would just give them to me. My biggest haul was someone who bought 3k "once fired" .45ACP cases and about 30% turned out to be SPP...I do now give him various LPP cases I pick up at matches

It makes me crazy to ignore nice, shiny range brass with small primer holes. We do have brass buckets at our range, and I do try to toss my unwanted .45 brass there.
BTW, during the great primer famine, brass has remained in the buckets more than usual.
Moon

 

[Charlie98]

i'm sorry but I will never understand the need to have two different sized primer pockets for the same brass no matter how they try to explain it.

All well and good but benchrest guys don't load the volumes at a time on progressive presses. And they meticulously prep each round of rifle brass to be as identical as possible. I doubt any of them need to be concerned about two different primer sizes getting mixed up.

You are missing the point. In some circumstances, there IS a difference between small and large primers... and a reason why manufacturers like Lapua and even Starline offer small and large primer brass in identical cartridges. Does it matter in the handgun world? Probably not, in 99.9% of the cases.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

You are missing the point. In some circumstances, there IS a difference between small and large primers... and a reason why manufacturers like Lapua and even Starline offer small and large primer brass in identical cartridges. Does it matter in the handgun world? Probably not, in 99.9% of the cases.

I don't believe I was missing the point but I think you were missing mine. The original post was talking about 45 ACP not benchrest rifle cartridges. I was merely complaining about how easy it can be to mix small and large when sorting big batches of brass as is often done with handgun brass. I can certainly understand the potential differences in benchrest rifle cartridge. But as I said those folks are not likely to have sorting problems. Maybe I wasn't clear enough with my complaint.

 

[Palladan44]

Rumor has it that there are now 10mm SPP. *sigh*

 

[CQB45ACP]

There's small primer 10mm out there as well. They probably save a fraction of a penny per round; make a few million or billion rounds and it adds up.

Don’t forget your time. Just kidding of course.

I thought all mfrs were moving to small and in any event I’m keeping plenty SP cases for that time.

 

[Soonerpesek]

The original post was talking about 45 ACP not benchrest rifle cartridges

It is my feeble understanding that the Bullseye folks like the SP brass for the more consistent ignition..........
I do not shoot Bullseye, just an observation I heard/read........

 

[Bill_in_TR]

It is my feeble understanding that the Bullseye folks like the SP brass for the more consistent ignition..........
I do not shoot Bullseye, just an observation I heard/read........

I don't doubt there are some folks that have good reason for liking small primer brass. Under different circumstances I might not care myself. But with a substantial inventory of brass and large pistol primers it would be cost prohibitive to change over. I imagine there are a lot of us folks around who started accumulating stuff before the small primer situation came about. I have so far not seen any significant evidence that small primers give any advantage to shooters over large primers. The only edge I see for reloaders is being able to stock a single primer size and perhaps that is important to some people.

 

[buck460XVR]

Trying to sort through your brass is a PITA and it is easy to miss something.

I mark mine with a black sharpie when I reload them and clean and process them separately from my LP brass. Have yet to get them mixed up. Bought a thousand once-fired SP cases a few years back during one of the previous primer shortages, just in case. Lately, while SP primers are easy to find and have gotten below the $90 a thousand mark, LP are still hard to find and more monies when you do find them. The SP brass has meant I can still shoot as much as I want and save my LP primers for .44 mag. Like most here, I have yet to see any noticeable difference in accuracy/velocities between the two. Some brands of brass have a different headstamp for their SP brass, but even those that don't, it isn't that hard to see the difference.

 

[ballman6711]

Does the size of the primer affect your recipe for a round?

I recently did a test of LPP vs. SPP in 45acp, and what I found was that my SPP wouldn't cycle my 1911 consistently.

My test was done using a light (maybe very light) target load of W231 and 185gr SWC in cold temps, 30's and low 40's.

I didn't notice any difference in accuracy or recoil.

So my answer to your question is yes, at least in lighter rounds and colder temperatures in my guns.

Everyone should do their own testing to see if it makes a difference in their guns.

chris

 

[Mark_Mark]

NOPE! I shot both SPP & LPP thru my Coot Defender. They both throw hot brass at my forehead

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have so far not seen any significant evidence that small primers give any advantage to shooters over large primers. The only edge I see for reloaders is being able to stock a single primer size and perhaps that is important to some people.

That advantage you see is an important one of availability. Here are a few more advantages for reloaders:

1. It is much easier today, and for a while, to find SPP than LPP and they are usually less expensive...so now you can find them and it cost less.
2. When importers enter the market, they usually start with SPP...due to the larger market...so that increases availability again
3. SPP are easier to set off than LPP. Using Federal primers in my competition revolvers, I can go with a lighter mainspring when shooting SPP .45ACP than when loading LPP .45ACP in my S&W 625
4. SPP are easier to fully seat than LPP. That is just based on physics...an amount of force applied to a ram of smaller area will transfer more force than that same amount of force applied to a ram with a larger area

 

[Bill_in_TR]

That advantage you see is an important one of availability. Here are a few more advantages for reloaders:

1. It is much easier today, and for a while, to find SPP than LPP and they are usually less expensive...so now you can find them and it cost less.
2. When importers enter the market, they usually start with SPP...due to the larger market...so that increases availability again
3. SPP are easier to set off than LPP. Using Federal primers in my competition revolvers, I can go with a lighter mainspring when shooting SPP .45ACP than when loading LPP .45ACP in my S&W 625
4. SPP are easier to fully seat than LPP. That is just based on physics...an amount of force applied to a ram of smaller area will transfer more force than that same amount of force applied to a ram with a larger area

All very good points. But none of it negates the fact that for me personally, and many others, I have a large quantity of both brass and primers of the large pistol variety. It would cost a lot to changeover. And although your physics argument is technically correct I have never had any difficulty seating large pistol primers so I really don't see any real world advantage there.

 

[lightman]

I can't tell any difference but I don't shoot a pistol over my chronograph to see if the velocity changes. If it does its not enough to affect the point of impact.

 

[JohnMc]

Rumor has it that there are now 10mm SPP. *sigh*

I've heard the same rumor but haven't actually seen one... yet.

 

[Palladan44]

I've heard the same rumor but haven't actually seen one... yet.

And I hope the first time we find one isn't when we're trying to reprime it with a LPP

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have a large quantity of both brass and primers of the large pistol variety. It would cost a lot to changeover.

You're lucky that you planned ahead. I've heard from many 1911 shooters who are growing concerned because LPP are so much harder to find...many are down to their last 5k

For newer reloaders who don't have a large stash set aside, SPP case make it easier to build up stocks

although your physics argument is technically correct I have never had any difficulty seating large pistol primers so I really don't see any real world advantage there.

I wouldn't think you'd have much difficulty, but I think you'd agree that it does take more pressure.

That additional pressure could easily be enough to make a shooter have to convert from a hand primer to a bench priming toll...due to their hands tire sooner. It could also increase the chance that a reloader loading on a manual progressive might be more likely to have a high primer...which they hopefully catch when case gauging

I noticed you didn't address my third point of SPP requiring a lighter strike to ignite...in essence, making them more reliable.

I should likely add the disclaimer that I'm not bias against LPP...I have 10K+ Federal on hand for use in my Starline brass. I'm just making the case that there are valid reasons for SPP .45ACP...beside the fact that it would be more production efficient for manufacturers convert all their production to SPP

 

[OS/N]

The only thing worse than trying to put a LP in a SP hole is trying to make a SP stay in a LP hole.

Took me about 5-10 mins to figure out WTH was going on one time. Took my priming tool apart and everything before realizing the brass had a large pocket - DA.

About the only way I can sort them is to use a lee pocket cleaner on the large end and do it that way. After 5 or so mins my eyes can't tell the difference.