.45 ACP Nay-sayers. . .

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MrCleanOK

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I have a young 8 point whitetail buck hanging in the back yard that is proof positive that .45 can be strong medicine for deer. The specifics are:

Gun: 5" Springfield XD-45, Trijicon tritium sights, Springer Precision trigger kit.
Bullet: 230 gr Speer Gold Dot, 1050 fps.
Range: 35-40 yards
Shot: Off-hand from a seated position (hanging stand, 25 feet up in a cottonwood tree), broadside.
Terminal effects: Bullet entered through the right shoulder area. Broke a rib and destroyed front half of right lung. Ruptured several major blood vessels. Passed in front of left lung, but caused hemorrhaging to front 1/3 of the left lung. Broke a left rib, and is lodged somewhere under the left shoulder or skin (to be recovered during butchering).
Tracking: This deer ran 50 yards and left no blood trail that I could find. I was lucky to watch him all the way down. The bullet left the typical entry pucker (though much bigger than the .243 pucker I am used to seeing), but with no exit wound all of the blood (and there was a lot of it!) stayed inside the chest cavity.

My thoughts: Skinning this deer tomorrow morning will shed more light on where exactly the bullet went on entry. As of now, I'm not sure what it went through outside of the rib cage. Did it pass through skin and flesh, or bones too? If the slug never hit a scapula or other bone, I will have to be selective about when I do this again because the lack of an exit wound would have made tracking very difficult if I hadn't seen the deer go down. If the slug did pass through shoulder or leg bones, I believe better shot placement (behind the shoulder) would create an exit wound.

All other things being equal, shooting this deer with a rifle would not have made him any more dead. Only easier to track due to the likely presence of an exit wound.

If you are inclined to try this, know your capabilities with the exact equipment you intend to use and do not exceed them. I limited myself to 50 yards maximum after determining that I could not consistently put rounds into an area the size of deer vitals from unsupported field positions at ranges greater than that.

(This part not particularly hunting related) This experience boosts my confidence in .45 ACP as a defensive caliber with the right ammunition and shot placement. I have no medical training beyond first aid & CPR, but I would say this deer died of asphyxiation (ruined one lung, damaged the other) and traumatic internal bleeding (ruptured arteries). Those may not end a fight immediately (given a highly motivated or drugged aggressor), but they will end it soon. I don't care who you are or what you're on, you can't keep fighting for long if you can't sufficiently put oxygen into a rapidly decreasing volume of blood. A deer is a pretty danged tough animal and doesn't have the "oh man, I'm hit!" reaction humans do, so I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine that the effects would transfer at least generally.

I will take some photos tomorrow when it's light outside and if any of them are germane to the topic and not too graphic I'll post them here. I'm particularly interested to find that slug to check it for expansion and fragmentation.

[ON] Flamesuit [/ON]
 
guess i don't really care what you shoot your deer w/ but as a 'public safety message' it should be noted a 45 acp is not legal in all states (s.d. for one) due to inadequate energy.

congrats on your kill - enjoy!
 
That's a very good point, Dakotasin. In Oklahoma, anything .40 caliber and bigger (including .357 Sig) is legal in auto pistols.
 
Dunno why folks can't see that the real issue is the shooter's skill and judgement, not the cartridge...

Exactly. Sure, I use over-powered Magnums on puny whitetail during deer season. But I can put that bullet spot on within my ranges and never take shots that might be "iffy." Cartridge has nothing to do with skill.

A poor shot with a 300 Win Mag is just as effective as a poor shot with a .22lr. Neither are going to do much. But, a well placed shot with a .22lr or .22 WMR within it's ranges is just as lethal as the same shot with a large centerfire rifle.

Shot placement is key.
 
Eh, .45 ACP is good to go at 50 meters and under if you can hit the kill zone. It won't cause any massive tissue disruption like a typical .270/.308-class centerfire rifle (which might be a good thing to have on dangerous game), but it'll penetrate enough and smash what it hits to cleanly take a deer. I bet you would have seen the same outcome with FMJ, or hey, a .38 Special LRN, 'cause you put it where it needed to go.
 
guess i don't really care what you shoot your deer w/ but as a 'public safety message' it should be noted a 45 acp is not legal in all states (s.d. for one) due to inadequate energy.
The State of Tennessee says: "A centerfire handgun firing a single projectile and having a barrel length of four inches or more." is authorized equipment.

A man's got to know his limitations ~ Dirty Harry
 
daniel, that's kinda like comparing a 50bmg to a 50 mm artillery . One is a handgun of moderate power and the other is a full power rifle. He was talking about deer, so the dangerous game angle is moot.

As to that .38sp - I have seen loads that were legal to hunt with in VA, which requires a 350 fpe or better to be legal.
 
I focus on skill from a couple of things: My father used to talk of a guest hunter who showed up at a ranch. One-armed guy; a 6" K-38 with which to hunt. At the 100-yard range by the ranch house, he proved he could group at some five or six inches at 100 yards. So, the rancher nodded with a grin, "Okay."

My uncle used an old WW II Signal Corps Harley to work his cattle. The deer were accustomed to the putt-putting around the pasture. He carried a GI 1911 in an old GI holster on the handlebar. He killed a few...

Skill...
 
Dunno why folks can't see that the real issue is the shooter's skill and judgement, not the cartridge...
I suppose some folks feel you have to draw the line somewhere...arbitrary or not. A couple of years back our local game warden had a dead 6x6 bull elk in the back of his pick up that was shot at night with the aide of artificial light. Proof positive that a .218 Bee can be strong medicine for Wapiti.
 
Ankeny, I don't see how what you said is at all relevant to what I said. Judgement as to probability of a clean, ethical kill is a major part of the deal, and use of a marginal weapon requires a high level of skill.

I guess if one desires to play word games, "drawing the line" could quite easily mean using good judgement in knowing the limits of one's skill and the capabilities of the weapon of choice.
 
in NC a pistol must be .38 or larger bore, 6" barrel
Actually, the NC regulations clearly state: "Deer, bear and wild boar may be taken with a handgun during the estalished gun hunting season provided that the handgun is not less than .24 caliber." There is no limit on barrel length.

After seeing the tread title I thought the OP would be touting the use of .45acp for deer hunting, but after reading the post I see restrictions and limitations are appropriately placed. I have a friend who several years ago killed a small doe with his Colt Commander .45 from a 8' high box stand, range of 15 yards. He took both his .270 BAR and the Commander hunting for a couple years, waiting for just the right opportunity for the .45. He told me several times after that he would never try it with a regular size deer.
 
With the right circumstance and proper shot placement, you CAN kill them with a slingshot. That doesn't make using a slingshot a good idea.
 
I've killed three deer with a 45acp over the last few years. If you have the skill, and know your limitations on distance it is a fun cartrige to hunt with. Congratulations on your accomplishment.
 
Great, but a large bore magnum revolver can take deer to 100 yards and my Contender can do it cleanly at 200. If I wanna shoot one at 40 or less, I like my Hoyt. More fun than my .45. I've taken a couple with a .357 Magnum Blackhawk. Haven't tried the Ruger Old Army, yet. It's as powerful as the .45ACP and more accurate than most and would be a better stunt. :D I just ain't in to auto pistols for outdoor uses. Revolvers are more accurate, more powerful, more versatile.
 
Nice report; thanks and good shot;

My hunting partner discovered this weekend that the following is ALSO effective at dropping a deer (in this case, not taking a step): .280 Remington, Hornady factory ammo with 139 gr SST, slight downward angle and almost broadside, with a very slight quartering toward, with head to the right: Bullet enters right cheek, above jaw line, below and in front of right ear (horribly bad shot; aiming for lungs :mad: ); bullet exits left side of neck, about 1/3 way down neck. Yep, that does it cleanly.
 
IMO a better round would have been Double Tap +P 230gr. FMJ-FP
1010 - 520

Two points to make:
(1) In Oklahoma pistols must fire an expanding bullet for deer. No FMJ.
(2) That is a slower load by 40 fps.

I don't doubt that load would have done the trick (I actually have some of them, too), but it wasn't even an option for me.
 
Caveman killed mammoths with spears. I would rather use a double rifle.

Coonskin capped frontier men used 36 caliber flintlocks that were barely more powerful than a 38 Spl.

When they could, they sure gave those up for 38-55’s and 30-30’s .

Look, you can kill most anything with proper shot placement. However, a handgun is a lot harder to shoot well than a rifle. And if you mess up and place the shot poorly, the round won’t create as much damage. Blood trail won’t be as good, and the deer will run off and die a suffering death miles away.

Animals are helpless. How we treat them is a direct reflection on us. We need to hold ourselves to a high standard and try to minimize the pain and suffering of these creatures, when we kill them.
 
Ankeny, I don't see how what you said is at all relevant to what I said.
Art, Game and Fish Commissions (or whatever your state might call them) have to draw the line somewhere. In Wyoming, shooting a big game animal with a .45 ACP is against the law because it doesn't generate the energy required to ethically (according to them) down a big game critter. The law here categorizes a .45 ACP right along with a .218 Bee or a .22 short. Also illegal are all .22 caliber center fire rifles such as a .22-250. The law doesn't take individual skill into account.

The remark about the dead elk wasn't directed at you. I simply wanted to point out that game animals have been killed for years with all types of cartridges and a dead critter isn't really proof positive of the effectiveness of a particular cartridge.
 
The last deer I killed was many years ago, with a .22 LR HP (39A). I shot it from the side in the back of the head. Dropped it like its switch was turned off and never moved. I am pretty sure there is nowhere they allow .22 LR for deer hunting. I was going to miss high, or kill the deer, with my aiming spot. (Statue of limitations is up by the way)

I certainly did not go out with a .22 to hunt deer. It just happened. I used to take a .308 or .44 Mag for that. :)

I would not go hunting deer with a .45, but under the right circumstances, it could do the job.
 
I simply wanted to point out that game animals have been killed for years with all types of cartridges and a dead critter isn't really proof positive of the effectiveness of a particular cartridge.

Really??? Actually I would say exactly the opposite. What does it say then?

A kill is about the best proof you can get. What does it take for people to realize how deadly most firearms can be when used properly?

What exactly is the determining standard? Who decides that a .45 ACP is not good for whitetail deer? Apparently it is good enough for some.
 
Shot placement is the absolute key and hunters have realized this fact throughout history. The caliber and ethics police like to patrol these boards and insist that the parameters they are comfortable with be observed.
 
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