45 ACP ????????????

[S&W 910]

Why is this cartridge considered so good ?

If the 45 was so good,why was the 10mm,40 s&w,357 sig invented ?

after the miami shoot out,why did LE just not switch to the 45 ?why were they not using the 45 in the first place ?

why do so few LE agencies use the 45 as thier duty cailiber ?

not trying to bash you 45 guys,but it just seems alot of people consider the 45 the ultimate round and i never really see explainations why.

some guys at the range today were talking about a shooting session when they were shooting old car doors,blocks of wood, old bullet proof vest and blocks of cement with the 357 sig,40,and 45

they said the 357 sig always went the deepest,followed by the 40,and the 45

your opinion on why this cartridge is so good

 

[georgeduz]

sorry i dont feel like changing all my reloading for all this new stuff,yes i like the 40.but all my dies and molds are 45.

 

[1911Tuner]

Why?

Howdy 910 and welcome aboard.

Many reasons why the .45 ACP is so highly regarded...though no cartridge is perfect or ideal for all situations...it performs well enough to have hung on for over a hundred years.

It has a proven track record. It's widely available at a reasonable price.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a gun shop that doesn't stock it.
There are a blue million pistols and revolvers chambered for it. It's available in
many different loadings to fit many requirements. Being a low-pressure cartridge...even in +p loadings...it's not overly rough on the guns that are chambered for it the way that more intense rounds are....notably the Big 10...
so it allows a lot of use before the guns are battered into unserviceability.

For those who reload, it's just an easy-going number and isn't picky as to what combination of components it will perform well with. It's an accurate cartridge, and capable of wicked accuracy if the gun is well-fitted...and does so with a variety of different combinations. Because of its low pressure, it's more forgiving of mistakes, and even if overloaded, doesn't usually result in a damaged gun or shooter, again assuming that the gun isn't worn out or so poorly fitted that it's best not fired with anything at all. Get careless with top-end 10mm pressure levels, and you could be headed for surgery to repair what's left of your hand. Even .40 S&W can land you in trouble on this count.

So many reasons that it's so highly thought of.

As to why were the others invented? Well...as with most "innovations"...
mainly to sell.

 

[MCgunner]

The .45 has a cult following and you know, when your cult leader tells you to drink poison, you don't ask why, you just do it.

But, it is a good round, always has been, for self defense. It works, you cannot deny that! Another thing, I've always found it easier to cast bullets for than some of the smaller stuff. It's more accurate with lead stuff and thus cheaper to reload. And, those big cases are easier to find lying in the grass.

I like .45 a lot, but I'm down on 1911s after my experiences and am not a member of the cult. I do carry a nine, love revolvers and DA shooting. I will try about any gun/caliber and own a variety of stuff.

 

[psychophipps]

All of the above and the fact that you don't need a 1911 to get a great .45ACP pistol, despite what some people seem to think. There are a good many inexensive, accurate and reliable .45s with nothing to thank Colt for except for the number part of the caliber. The Portland Police Bureau uses both 9mm and .45s as their issue weapons based on officer preference.
The .40S&W and .357Sig are the new kids on the block and very good cartridges by all accounts. They do, however, cost more on average that I've seen and have limited weapons that they're available for. The .40 is a bit more 'bitey' in the recoil, in my experience, but has shot as well as I could point it.

Some people are wanting the new thing and some are happy with old reliable,
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Like it's been said on this thread partly it is a cult following, partly semtimental. I for one shot the M1911A1 in the Army and loved it ever since. Loved the way the round handles through the whole firing process. In a way it' carries the nostalgia like a Harley-Davidson but in handgun circles.

 

[Ala Dan]

I like the .45 ACP because I reload using the Magnus 200 grain L-SWC
bullet, and it makes nice neat holes in paper targets; that I can see
from the 25 yard line, thus I don't have too walk down range too
checkout my groups~!

 

[dmallind]

No nostalgia for me. I'm a new-ish shooter and an immigrant too so no misty eyed reverie for me with the 1911 or the .45ACP in general.

But somehow I find myself trending more and more that way, with 2 .45ACP 1911s and a G30 in use, another .45ACP 1911 I pick up today (can't wait - the Ed Brown is here at last ), and I'm on the hunt for at least one and maybe two more. I haven't bought anything BUT a .45ACP for the last 6 months and 4 guns. I'm even thinking of selling or trading my G19 for - yep another .45ACP, which would leave me with just the pocket 9mm carry gun in any other caliber (and once I check out to see if the Kahr P45 conceals well enough I may be exclusively .45ACP)

So why?

Well let's take the ballistics tests first. There are hundreds of 'em and seemingly dozens of different conclusions drawn from them. By their very nature, they deal with controlled situations and circumstances which do not apply in real world shootings. Not to dismiss ballistics tests be it gelatin in the lab or alfresco substitutes in the field. After all they are the best info we can get without starting shooting people in a scientifically controlled manner (note to NSA wiretappers - that is a SARCASTIC suggestion! ). But my take is that with all the different tests and all the different results, none of the "serious" calibers ever have BAD results - they just may fall a little bit behind or a little bit ahead of the alternatives on any given test. I MAY rethink my caliber choice if all of a sudden all the tests showed .40 or 10mm or whatever penetrating 14" and expanding to .700, but showed the .45 bouncing off or just leaving a scratch on the surface. However that's not very likely now is it?

So the test results are inconclusive, and show all major calibers doing quite well enough to seriously ruin anyone's day. An extra 1/2" penetration or .01 expansion from one or the other means little to me either way - whether it be the .45 or the .40 or whatever else "winning".

So real world tests? As we all know anything from .22 on up has plenty of one shot stops, and just about everything I've seen including 10mm and .357 magnum (let alone SIG) has plenty of records of multi-shot survivals. The .45 is no exception. Its champions can find many anecdotes of one shot drops, from wartime to LEO to civilian, and its detractors can find many anecdotes of its ineffectiveness in all the above too. Just like the fans and pooh-poohers of 9mm can do EXACTLY the same. Again - I think the variables here are legion, and entirely independent of caliber. Another "inconclusive" basis for choosing a caliber.

So me? I go with the one I shoot best. Be that the ergonomics of recoil or the ballistics of subsonic vs. transsonic projectiles, or be it voodoo, either way I shoot .45's appreciably better than anything else I've tried. Admittedly that does not include 10mms yet, but I am not all that desperate to try one since .45ACP is doing so well for me, is cheaper and more available, and is effective enough in any and all tests.

But hey it could just be the JMB worshipping koolaid I've been drinking (although what about that G30....) :banghead:

 

[trickyasafox]

i think its a comfortable round to shoot, great for target work as it has a nice big "line cutter" diameter, and it'll serve a lot of purposes. its not great for hunting, but it'll take a deer to 25 yards, or coyote or any other little critter; and its a solid performer for self defense.

i really like the versatility, loads from 165-230 grain bullet weight without batting an eye. 65grains is a huge margin! great for powder puff loads for new shooters or barn burners when your looking for something with more pop.

 

[Dr_2_B]

S&W,

I got to thinking about your question and it frankly made me wax romantic. Let's face it, we shooters do have a feeling towards firearms that's not all that different from the way we feel about that special someone(s). We kinda like their curves and the way they feel.

It occured to me that I particularly like brunettes. I also like girls with smaller chests, and I kinda like shorter girls. Isn't that strange? The stereotypical picture of the desirable woman is different than that - but that's what catches my eye. And my last g/f was a tall blond. Plus, I was just talking to one of the cutest red-heads I've ever seen and I'd actually like to get to know her.

I think there are all these strong opinions for the same reason that Baskin Robbins has thirty-one flavors. We're very different people. Our opinions are formed by things deeper than velocity and ft. lbs., aren't they?

 

[R.W.Dale]

quote
i really like the versatility, loads from 165-230 grain bullet weight without batting an eye. 65grains is a huge margin! great for powder puff loads for new shooters or barn burners when your looking for something with more pop.

Kinda like the same huge margin for other handgun rounds

9mm 90gr to 147gr range of 57grs
357 mag 100gr to 200grs range of 100grs
40S&W/10mm 135grs to 200grs range of 65grs
44 mag 180gr to 330 range of 150grs
45colt 165grs to 395grs range of 230grs

As you can see I was kinda bored

 

[mbt2001]

Big hole... Isn't too bad about over penetration. expands well at the given velocities.

Mostly the .45 had a tremendous resurgence when the HI CAP ban went into effect. Since you were limited to 10 rounds, the "wonder 9" lost some of it's appeal and the thought of 7 - 8 rnds in a .45 or even a revolver wasn't so 'bad'.

 

[Lonestar.45]

Shoot some targets with a .45, a 9mm, a .357 Sig, a .40 cal. Then look at the size of the holes. Which would you rather put into a goblin intent on doing you bodily harm?

 

[R.W.Dale]

 

[tegemu]

Dmallind, you might be pleased to know that you can very easily carry a 1911 in your pocket. I have a Kimber Ultra Carry II .45 ACP that I carry in my pocket a couple of times a week - whenever waist carry would be inappropriate. The UC II fits, rides and draws VERY well from the pocket, especially in a good pocket holster. Several holster makers make a 3" .45 pocket holster. Mine is from Sam Andrews at www.andrewsleather.com .

 

[dmallind]

Thought about that tegemu - and in fact the last line on my signature was put there with that intent. I've been a bit reluctant to go to the micro 1911s due to the occasionally testy nature of their reliability in that format, but the Kimber CDP and the Colt Defender seem to have a good rep in that area so I may very well try them out one of these days. I like the feature list of the SA Micro loaded but I've heard varying reports of their reliability.

Will check out the holsters if I go that route - though I have been most impressed with the kdholsters.com product for my Kahr so would look there first I think. It's almost magical to me that good pocket holsters can hold the weight of the gun upside down and yet draw so smoothly with apparently no resistance. the KD I have does just that!

Thanks for the heads up - may have to consider that and dump the 9mm entirely!

 

[rick_reno]

If the 45 was so good,why was the 10mm,40 s&w,357 sig invented ?

Why? The marketing people needed something to do.

I shot all of those in your list but the 40 S&W before ever trying the 45 acp. Now it's all I shoot - I usually shoot it in 1911's, but I have Sig, H&K and even a Glock in 45 acp. It's very manageable for me and I like that.

 

[hk p2000sk]

.45 acp is not widely used for law enforcement because of the capacity. It's a big round and if you want a firearm that carries 12-14 rounds of 45acp, the grip will be way too big for the majority of police officers.

In addition, the velocity of 230gr 45acp is quite a bit slower than standard 9mm, 357sig and 40sw. With today's dangerous bad guys who sometimes wear bullet proof vest, velocity in the bullets is very important but most pistol calibers won't penetrate body armor. That's why more and more police agencies are issuing rifles.

On the boxotruth.com site, you see the impact of a 40sw, 9mm, and a 45acp against some type of body armor. None of the rounds penetrated but the 40sw made the most damage against the clay which simulates the body. I'm sure a 185gr +P 45acp would create similar damage.

9mm and 40sw with today's bullets offer similar stopping power of the 45 acp but with more capacity.

 

[jungle]

Why the .45ACP? The 1911, and it's clear superiority to any pistol made for a very long time. Penetration in hard materials is not it's best strength, and various pistol rounds will out penetrate it, but for defense at close range it is adequate.

The 10mm, .357SIG, .40S&W have all been about finding a better solution, some will fit in smaller frame pistols, some offer more power, none show a real advantage in all areas. Pistols are feeble weapons at best and anything that will drive a bullet of reasonable diameter through your target will get the job done-including the 9mm, probably the champ in total due to extensive use in SMGs.

The .45ACP is easiest to reload and the cases last forever and they are easy to handle for the fat fingered among us.

 

[Seraph]

Why the .45ACP? The 1911, and it's clear superiority to any pistol made for a very long time.

Yup. The best thing about .45 ACP is the 1911.

...if you want a firearm that carries 12-14 rounds of 45acp, the grip will be way too big for the majority of police officers.

Have you seen the XD-45 ACP?

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I shoot .45ACP becuause that's the caliber 1911s come in.

Any of the serious defensive calibers will work if you can place your shots where they need to go. None of the calibers will work if you can't. Thus I'm not convinced that any caliber is notably better or worse than the others. None of them come anywhere close to the effectiveness of a long gun.

Magazine capacity isn't nearly as important as most people think it is. Unless you're Jack Bauer, the odds of you getting into a protracted gun battle are virtually nil. In a civillian self-defense scenario, if the first 7 or 8 shots don't save you, it's unlikely that an additional 4 or 6 rounds are goint to make any difference.

If nothing else, .45 brass is easier to find and pick up at the range.

 

[Car Knocker]

tegemu,

I thought I was the only one who carried a .45ACP in a pocket holster. I also carry a Kimber UC but in a holster from hbeleatherworks.com.

 

[748]

You can allways up grade just about any 1911 to fire .45ACP+P.
It knocks you harder then a regular round, but heavier springs taim the recoil I think. Then I have never tried any thing lighter then 230 and 200gr +P loads.
180 and lighter would be more powerful and should have less recoil. Any 1911 can hold 8 rounds with out the mag going past the grip. 10 sitcks out about an inch.
This has some .45 bullet holes, drawn by surgens who cleaned up there mess.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm
Go about 3/4 the way down the page.
If you want a pistol that holds 20 rounds get the 5.7FN, there are kits that extend the factory mag to 30 and even 40 rounds. It is one of the first after market parts for the Fiveseven pistol. Only about $17 factory mag not included.

 

[hk p2000sk]

I like the xd-45 acp and it seems like springfield made the grip slim and well fitted for 13-14 rounds of 45acp. I hope more law enforcement agencies adopt it but there still seems to be a lack of high capacity 45acp pistols except for double stacked 1911 and the xd-45.

 

[DunedinDragon]

I think it really all boils down to availability and market position.

Basically you have two categories of ammo, small and fast, and large and slow. The small and fast category has settled on the 9mm as the cartridge of choice for many years now, and the large and slow category has been dominated by the .45 ACP. The longer anything stays on the market, the broader it's market becomes, the more it gets refined, and the more available it becomes, and therefore the less it will cost.

When it comes right down to it, the newer calibers are simply attempts to fill in the gaps between these two calibers. In my opinion ithat's due mostly to trying to find a market niche for new guns than it is to really making a significant difference in the effectiveness over either of these rounds.

The reality is that both of these rounds are effective, and both of these rounds have achieved the market position that ensures ammunition manufacturers will continue to tinker with their designs and improve the effectiveness and keep the prices reasonable.

I feel like I have all bases covered by having guns in both of these calibers, and I see no compelling reason to explore other handgun calibers. From a user's standpoint, if I want to carry a smaller gun with lots of ammo I choose the 9mm. If I want to carry a larger gun with heavier horsepower, I choose the .45ACP. That pretty much covers the whole range of anything I'd ever need in a handgun.