.45 Colt vs .30-30 winchester

[TruthTellers]

I would say .45 Colt. It'll do fine if you hit the vitals on a black bear with very hot and heavy loads.

As for reloading, .45 Colt has a ton of mold options for casting your own bullets. You can also reload with smokeless or black powder if you want. .45 Colt was around before smokeless was and back in the 1800's, some would load .45 Colt with as much black powder as possible. With that much powder and enough barrel, 1000-1100 fps with a 250 grain bullet was not a stretch of the imagination. A .45 Colt loaded with a max charge of black powder was a magnum round back then and is still today a potent round.

The other nice part about getting into .45 Colt is years down the road you may find yourself looking at some single action revolvers in that chambering and, oh yeah, you are already all set up to reload for it.

My only advice is if you are going to load your own high pressure .45 Colt rounds, be extra careful.

Also, I'm not saying .30-30 is bad, I just think you can get more enjoyment out of a .45 Colt.

 

[samweller]

I would expect a 45/70 to shoot rainbows...how is the trajectory on that cartridge?

 

[kBob]

Swampwolf,

"I'm curious as to why you might think the .32 Special cartridge is more appropriate for using black powder than the 30-30 is. If you do, that is. "

Well Malamute's ad from the manufacturer is a pretty good reason.

Also

Cartridges of the World Barnes/Amber
(not sure of edition as is so used the publishing info page is gone)

"It was originally designed as a smokeless powder cartridge that, once fired, could be reloaded with black powder."

and

45th edition of Lyman Reloading Handbook

"Some sources argue the .32 Special was equipped with its 1-16" twist to enable factory cartridges to be reloaded with black powder."

I could likely find more but those are the only sources with in reach at the moment.

Barnes does not that the .32 Special does nothing with factory ammo a .30-30 cant do and it is his opinion that pitted .30-30 barrels shoot much better than pitted .32 Special barrels......thus my caution to get a nice one.

While not an issue today the .32 Special could use a host of then common .32 lead bullets and the then new .30 was not so common.

Winchester used to market a tong type reloading tool for most of the "Dash Cartridges" .....so if for instance you had been shooting the 32-40 or some such you could continue loading with those bullets.

One wonders that if a .30-30 were given a custom 1-16" twist barrel rather than the industry standard 1-12" for .30-30 is it might not work better with BP than it currently does. But now we are getting into custom stuff and do you want to be the one to do the research?

The .30-30 / 170gr factory loads run in the low to middle 2200s and the .32 Special the mid to high 2200s so not a lot of difference. Not as many choices for reloading jacket bullets for the .32 however. Or lead casting blocks for that matter.

Good enough answer?

I could have gone with the internet standards "Because I say so" or "THEY (the unnamed) say so" but I think this is nicer, doncha?

Got to get to church.....

-kBob

 

[Coyote3855]

I would expect a 45/70 to shoot rainbows...how is the trajectory on that cartridge?

Here's a link to information on the trajectory of the .45-70. Since the OP specifies that his shots will be under 100 yards, the rainbow arc is not significant.

I endorse another poster's recommendation for the .38-55. Less recoil than the .45-70 and with 240 grain bullets, it's very effective at reasonable ranges for about anything you can hunt in North America, Alaskan coastal grizzlies being an exception in my opinion.

I have a couple of .45 Colt rifles that I used in Cowboy Action Shooting. Given the OP's options, I would go with my Marlin 336 all day long. I recognize the .45 can be loaded to lethal levels in ranges under 100 yards, so it's just personal preference for me.

 

[MEHavey]

expect a 45/70 to shoot rainbows...

The OP wanted a short-mid range cartridge: "all shots would be taken inside of 75 yards"

The 45-70 sighted at 90yds shooting a classic 405gr LRNFP doing 1,400fps (a very comfortable
low-mid load) is a point blank varmint rifle ± 1¼" from muzzle to 100 yds.

As he is a handloader, I still suggest 45 colt for what/why he wants all-round though.


A little overboard for ground squirels....
But if you only wound them, they charge.

 

[hatt]

I'd go .45 Colt for your started uses. Any of the common lever action round will work well though. At least for smokeless powder. .35 Remington would be great as it lets you use common and cheap handgun bullets for messing around at the range and other loads can easily get you deer out to 200 yards.

Modern higher pressure .45 Colt loads out of a carbine are going to hammer game at short range. That's not even a consideration.

 

[BigBore45]

Did some data searching for you.

45 Colt: at muzzle:260 Grain SWCHPGC 2083 Ft/lbs---30 TKO Factor
at 100 Yards: 260 Gr. SWCHPGC 1330 Ft/lbs-----22 TKO Factor

30-30: At muzzle: 150 Gr. Barnes 1839 Ft/lbs---15 TKO Factor
At 100 yards: 150 Gr .Barnes 1169 Ft/lbs--- 12 TKO Factor.

These speeds are from buffalo bore ammo. both 20" lever action guns.

Like i said. the 45 colt wins until 150ish yards and then the 30-30 win starts out performing. i like the 30-30 but for a 75 yard gun, the 45 Colt wins. bigger bullet, more energy, easier to load black powder, can be loaded easy to light loads( accurately ). less powder per load, lots of bullet options.

This is typical. to be honest the .45 colt in strong guns with modern powder is right behind 45-70 black powder loads. do not think you could tell a difference at 100 yards.

 

[Malamute]

45 Colt: at muzzle:260 Grain SWCHPGC 2083 Ft/lbs---30 TKO Factor
at 100 Yards: 260 Gr. SWCHPGC 1330 Ft/lbs-----22 TKO Factor

30-30: At muzzle: 150 Gr. Barnes 1839 Ft/lbs---15 TKO Factor
At 100 yards: 150 Gr .Barnes 1169 Ft/lbs--- 12 TKO Factor.

I agree with the basis and conclusions of your post for the most part, however,...I stopped using the Taylor Knock Out factor after reading his book. Its intent was to compare the knock out time of headshot elephants. Full stop. Taylor wrote that it didnt really apply to other animals or types of hunting. It places too much emphasis on diameter, and no allowance for expanding bullets or different bullet shapes and their effect on thin skinned game.

Unfortunately, energy doesnt really tell us that much about a bullets ability to kill game or damage tissue either. A fmj round nose has the same energy as a soft point or wide flat point, but their effect on game isnt the same.

 

[midland man]

well in Oklahoma where I live either will do fine as I own both so I still stand on the 45 colt doing what your looking for!!

 

[DM~]

Given a choice between the two you picked, for the things you want to hunt, I'd grab the 30-30 and run!

DM

 

[BigBore45]

I agree with the basis and conclusions of your post for the most part, however,...I stopped using the Taylor Knock Out factor after reading his book. Its intent was to compare the knock out time of headshot elephants. Full stop. Taylor wrote that it didnt really apply to other animals or types of hunting. It places too much emphasis on diameter, and no allowance for expanding bullets or different bullet shapes and their effect on thin skinned game.

Unfortunately, energy doesnt really tell us that much about a bullets ability to kill game or damage tissue either. A fmj round nose has the same energy as a soft point or wide flat point, but their effect on game isnt the same.

Yeah i understand this, i did however pick hunting bullets that will transfer as much energy as they can depending on shot location. And a well expanded 30-30 bullet is going to be close to a 12-18 Bhn SWC out of a 45 colt that hardly expanded. i have however used that 260 gr. that buffalo bore uses on deer and it is a very good lead hollow point. Rim Rock Bullet Company makes them, they are pricey, but worth it for hunting.

The point on killing inside 100 yards between the 2 cartridges is pretty mute, i do not think one could tell a difference at all. but from other aspects like black powder loading or the ability to load for plinking/range shooting and cost per round the .45 Colt has the advantage. both would work however.

 

[Slamfire]

For a time I was practicing offhand at 100 yards with my Marlin 1894 in 44 Magnum. I was pushing a 240 grain bullet at 1700-1750 fps. I do not see a practical reason why a 250-255 grain bullet in a 45 LC can't be pushed just as fast in a modern lever action. Anyway, that bullet smacked my gong target very hard, the wang and reaction was impressive.

I have talked to bud's who shot deer with a 44 Magnum rifle, out to 100 yards, they are solid killers. No reason why a warmly loaded 45 LC cannot do the same.

It should be noted, that loads for 45LC are kept low because loads equaling or approximating 44 Magnum levels would blow the top strap of Colt SAA's, and any lightly built 45 LC revolver. But, given modern materials, and the heavier construction of a solid rifle, I don't see a structural issue. I have seen Rossi 1892's in 454 Casull, if they can build a 1892 in 454 Casull, then it can take magnum level pressures.

I don't know if I would want to shoot it. I had to put a rubber recoil pad on my Marlin 1894. The original has a solid plastic, and it hurt during recoil. Forty four magnums can hurt.