450bm help

[Axis II]

if I’m shooting the hornady flex tip bullets in 450bm do I have to use hornady dies? Are the cases shortened also? Asking for my buddy so not really sure as I don’t have anything here to check.

How about ar vs bolt gun 450bm dies?

From what I’ve found online the ftx bullet is the only .452 bullet you can shoot from a 450bm. Anyone know of any HP, FN bullets He can use? He hit a doe in the shoulder and the bullet grenaded leaving her to run off and die.

 

[CKweigand]

Redacted

 

[CKweigand]

I wouldn’t think you would need a specific brand of dies for one caliber, could be wrong though. I did think there was a special trim to length spec for the FTX bullets but....

Actually after looking at the Hornady manual I’m not sure if the 250gr FTX bullet requires a special trim to length spec. As it seems that particular bullet was specially designed for the said caliber. Hopefully someone will chime in with some 450bm experience now I’m curious lol

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

if I’m shooting the hornady flex tip bullets in 450bm do I have to use hornady dies?

No you don't have to.

 

[Blue68f100]

You can use any brand dies you want. Different size and shapes bullets may require a different OAL. Remember the info published in load data manuals is what they used for testing. The main requirement for OAL is if it must fit a magazine. If not you can single feed them if longer. Just remember seating the bullet into the lands will make the pressure rise significantly, and can be extremely dangerous to you and others around you.

 

[beeenbag]

I use lee dues to load my 450 bushmaster.

I have used the 250g ftx for hunting purposes and have recently switched to the cheaper 240g .452 xtp mag bullets for targets. I haven’t used the xtps on game though. I emailed hornady about using their other xtp bullets in the 450 and was advised the other xtp bullets weren’t designed for the velocity that the 450 pushes. There is also a 300g xtp mag bullet that will work but I have no experience with them.

Hope this helps a little. Be sure to use a good crimp with the AR platform as I have had bullets walk forward (longer oal) after being chambered a few times when using a light crimp.

 

[Axis II]

You can use any brand dies you want. Different size and shapes bullets may require a different OAL. Remember the info published in load data manuals is what they used for testing. The main requirement for OAL is if it must fit a magazine. If not you can single feed them if longer. Just remember seating the bullet into the lands will make the pressure rise significantly, and can be extremely dangerous to you and others around you.

Thanks, Blue.

I am aware of all you stated. I forgot to mention because i was half asleep when my buddy called me and I made the thread. I saw several times using the Hornady cases and the FTX you need to trim them as well as a special seating stem only used in Hornady dies but that's for 45-70. I was curious if its the same with the 450bm.

 

[mcb]

I think the idea of trimming cases short when using FTX bullets comes from using the FTX bullet in 44 Magnum (and maybe other revolver cartridges). In the case of 44 Magnum you have to trim the cases shorter than SAAMI spec if you are loading the cartridge to SAAMI OAL or shorter. If you don't trim the cases shorter than the crimp will be up on the ogive of the FTX bullet rather than down on the cylindrical part of the bullet where it belongs.

That said this is not the case for 450 Bushmaster. In fact since 450 Bushmaster head spaces on the case mouth so if you shorten the cases much below SAAMI minimum case length you're going to run into ignition problems.

As for other bullets to try in 450 Bushmaster there are a lot. The Hornady make a 300gr version of the FTX, and the 240 gr and 300 gr XTP/MAG and the Speer Deep Curl in similar weights are both good HP bullets to try.

My personal favorite is the Barnes 275gr TSX.

 

[Axis II]

What's your guys thoughts on a hard cast .452 bullet? I told him the bushmaster maybe to fast and will create leading.

Do you guys have a preferred powder?

He's looking to get maximum performance from these rounds as they will be used for deer hunting out to 200yards.

 

[Blue68f100]

Thanks, Blue.

I am aware of all you stated. I forgot to mention because i was half asleep when my buddy called me and I made the thread. I saw several times using the Hornady cases and the FTX you need to trim them as well as a special seating stem only used in Hornady dies but that's for 45-70. I was curious if its the same with the 450bm.

I'm not aware of any special seating die required. I load the FTX in my 458 SOCOM using the std stem that came with my Redding set. If your concern about the bullet hitting remove the stem and place a bullet in. Then you can see where the seating stem is contacting. The only special seating stems I'm aware of is for the long skinny bullets like the ELD's. These a lot of time will hit on the nose first with a std seating stem. I only trim back to the middle of the spec on all my brass. Since I anneal most of it every cycle. Not the 458 SOCOM though, it's easy on brass.

 

[mcb]

What's your guys thoughts on a hard cast .452 bullet? I told him the bushmaster maybe to fast and will create leading.

Do you guys have a preferred powder?

He's looking to get maximum performance from these rounds as they will be used for deer hunting out to 200yards.

I have not loaded any cast lead bullets yet but I know over at 450Bushmaster.net several users have played with hard cast bullets. Gas-checks and/or polymer coated bullets seem to solve any leading issues. I would think that if you went heavy cast bullets (300gr - 350gr range) you would also reduce leading issues since velocities would be lower.

So far all my 450 Bushmaster reloading (except sub-sonics) has been done with Lil'gun and H110. I use the Lil'gun for the lighter bullets 200gr - 250gr and for the 275 gr and 300 gr I have been using H110.

Hodgdon's online reloading data base has loads data for 225, 250, 275 and 300 gr bullets.


ETA: FYI According to an unsupported claim in the Wiki article on 450 Bushmaster. When the cartridge was a wildcat called the 45 Professional it was .071 inch longer the the current 450 Bushmaster. As Hornady was taking over the final development, commercialization and SAAMI approval of the cartridge from the creator of the 45 Professional (LeGendre) they had requested the cartridge be shortened from 1.771 to 1.700. Supposedly this shorting was so they could use the 250gr SST (aka FTX*) bullet in the newly christened 450 Bushmaster and still fit in the AR magazine length.

* as far as I have been able to research the only difference between the 250gr SST saboted muzzle-loader bullet and the 250gr FTX bullet is the polymer used in the ballistic tip.

-rambling

 

[Toprudder]

Hornady does make a special seating stem for the 250gn FTX bullet. Some seating dies will contact the FTX tip, possibly damaging it.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...e-seater-stem-45-caliber-250-grain-ftx-bullet

 

[Th1969]

I am loading 450 bm with Barnes 275 tsx ,38 grains of h110 and cci450 mag primer in ruger American 16” barrel and two touching dead on at 50 and about the same at 100 no drop sand bagging. Does anyone have an idea of drop at 150-200 with this . And could I bump up powder charge ?

 

[mcb]

According to Hodgdon you are already .4 grains over their maximum charge of H110 under that specific bullet. If you have you muzzle velocity I can give you the drop at range. I am using the same bullet in my 450 Bushmaster.

 

[jmorris]

You don’t have to use one specific brand of die, you only need to trim cases that are longer than will chamber in the firearm, bolt action or semiauto. There are lots of bullets that you can shoot from a 450. That’s one of the things you often hear good about the 450, you can use those .452 bullets you already have around for your pistols. Although that’s not always the best idea, even Hornady has 3 different bullets they make, with data for the 450 and there are lots of others that are fine or even better choices.

 

[mcb]

450 Bushmaster is a slightly odd duck. With repeated firings the cases will get shorter due to case head expansion not longer typical of higher pressure bottle neck rifle cartridges. The hotter to load the worst this problem is. I would only trim 450 Bushmaster cases if they were new and longer than SAAMI max spec of 1.700 and then I would trim to 1.700 NOT 1.690, leave them as long as you can. You will most likely have 450 Bushmaster cases get too short to head space correctly from repeated firings before you split or otherwise wear them out.

As I stated earlier in the thread the only cases I have seen that need to be trimmed shorter than SAAMI for FTX bullets is revolver cartridges like 44 Mag. In these cases case length is less critical since they are head spacing on the rim not the case mouth like 450 Bushmaster. 450 Bushmaster has more than enough OAL to accept the 250gr FTX bullets. I have even loaded 300 SST bullets in 450 Bushmaster without case length issues.

As for bullets any bullet that is good for 454 Casull or 460 S&W is a good candidate for 450 Bushmaster. There are also a growing number of bullets being made specifically for 450 Bushmaster. There are lots of good bullet options out there.


Left to Right: Barnes, 200gr XPB, Barnes 275gr TSX, Hornady 240gr XTP/MAG, Hornady 300gr XTP/MAG, Hornady, 225gr FTX, Hornady 250gr FTX, Remington 405gr SP (resized).

 

[Th1969]

The 275 tsx with 37.6 is showing 2036 FPS for the 450 bm , I’m 38 grains, velocity ? And I have ruger with 16” barrel . Normal pressure signs

 

[mcb]

The 275 tsx with 37.6 is showing 2036 FPS for the 450 bm , I’m 38 grains, velocity ? And I have ruger with 16” barrel . Normal pressure signs

Hodgdon's velocity data is for a 24-inch test barrel your shooting a 16-inch barrel there is going to be a fairly large velocity difference. If you want an accurate ballistic table we need an accurately measured muzzle velocity from your guns, you also need the distance between your bore axis and sights/scope axis and what distance you anticipate zeroing the rifle at. Barnes publishes a .215 G1 BC (Ballistics Coefficient) for that bullet. With those four pieces of information you should be able to use one of a variety of online ballistic calculators to create a fairly accurate ballistic table.

 

[Toprudder]

I am loading 450 bm with Barnes 275 tsx ,38 grains of h110 and cci450 mag primer in ruger American 16” barrel and two touching dead on at 50 and about the same at 100 no drop sand bagging. Does anyone have an idea of drop at 150-200 with this . And could I bump up powder charge ?

Can’t help you regarding your specific bullet, but with factory Hornady 250 Ammo, I have my scope adjusted so the POI at 100 yards is 3” high, and at 200 yards it is about 3.5” low. I have not checked it at 150 yards, but it should be almost zeroed at that range.