458x2"(American) or 45 Raptor?

[adcoch1]

I want a 45 cal bolt action. I have a decent 458 socom, so this is more of a want than a need, but I really want to shoot some heavy lead through a handy sized short action bolt gun. The question is which caliber? 454 bore in the raptor, or 458 bore in the 458x2"?

Probably going to be a savage or ruger american for the rifle, but not set on that. Most likely the savage in the 458x2 VS the ruger American in 45 Raptor. Both are about the same price point to build. So which one would you do for an American "stopping rifle" or a "thumper" to quote Cooper?

 

[Varminterror]

In a stick shift, starting from scratch, I’d do a 458 wm, or Lott, and then run lighter loads when major power factor isn’t required.

But I have long loved the Wm and Lott.

Of the two, I’d probably lean towards the 458x2” American.

 

[troy fairweather]

Depends on the bolt face. The fps they make I'd rather have the 458.

 

[adcoch1]

In a stick shift, starting from scratch, I’d do a 458 wm, or Lott, and then run lighter loads when major power factor isn’t required.

But I have long loved the Wm and Lott.

Of the two, I’d probably lean towards the 458x2” American.

I really want a Lott, and someday I will order a cz 550 in the Lott, but for now I want to run a short action at right around 45-70 loads. I'd try for a Siamese mauser in 45-70, but that would probably cost more in the long run.

 

[adcoch1]

Depends on the bolt face. The fps they make I'd rather have the 458.

Kinda where my thinking is going... But I have all this 30-06 brass...

 

[troy fairweather]

I really want a Lott, and someday I will order a cz 550 in the Lott, but for now I want to run a short action at right around 45-70 loads. I'd try for a Siamese mauser in 45-70, but that would probably cost more in the long run.

If you can find one you can pick them up for 4-5 hundred.

 

[adcoch1]

Also, I can cast bullets for this rifle pretty easy, which will keep down ammo costs, so the normal deciding factors aren't as decisive on this project...

 

[troy fairweather]

How does the raptor feed from the savage, my have to have a center feed.

 

[adcoch1]

Most of the savage rifles I can get a hold of cheap are center feed mags. So the raptor should be pretty easy in a savage. Might take a little more work to modify a center feed short action magazine to run a belted case...

 

[troy fairweather]

I know a model seven Remington feeds the 458A fine.

 

[adcoch1]

If I didn't have such a dislike for current production Remington's I'd be all over a model 7...

 

[troy fairweather]

Type 99 jap?

 

[Jessesky]

Seeing a lot of responses to step up to 458 win Mag. In reality 458win Mag will be more versatile than 458x2”. Generic chamberings like the 458wm are generic because they are proven to work better than most! But going the generic rout isn’t always why we want to build a rifle.

There is a romance about wildcatting, or interesting chamberings. Sometimes limiting the performance of a round creates a well balanced, comfortable to shoot, eloquent rifle. Not allowing the user to load hot enough to make it unwieldy. It’s the same reason such rifles like the 6.5x55, 257roberts, 38-55 have such cult followings.

That’s not to say I don’t like butt stomping loads though too

 

[adcoch1]

Seeing a lot of responses to step up to 458 win Mag. In reality 458win Mag will be more versatile than 458x2”. Generic chamberings like the 458wm are generic because they are proven to work better than most! But going the generic rout isn’t always why we want to build a rifle.

There is a romance about wildcatting, or interesting chamberings. Sometimes limiting the performance of a round creates a well balanced, comfortable to shoot, eloquent rifle. Not allowing the user to load hot enough to make it unwieldy. It’s the same reason such rifles like the 6.5x55, 257roberts, 38-55 have such cult followings.

That’s not to say I don’t like butt stomping loads though too

The smaller case size is the motivation for this project, I will go up to the 458 Lott someday, but for now I want to play with a thumper, not a "STOMPER"!

 

[Curator]

I Built a .458wm on a Type 99 action in the 70's, Round-nose cartridges feed from the magazine nicely. I used a 24" Douglas 1 in 14" twist barrel and an English Safari-rifle stock design with serious recoil pad. I also added 1 pound of lead in the butt stock to help with the recoil, The gun weighs 9.5 pounds with its Leupold 4X scope. Shoots great with black powder level loads and cast bullets or full-house 500 grain jacketed loads ar 2100 fps. One never knows when you will have to deal with an angry Tyrannosaurus rex. 20 rounds of .458 Win Mag factory loads will give you a flinch that will take weeks of work to get rid of. .45-70 level lead bullet loads can be fun to shoot and I have been amazed at the accuracy (If I can keep from wincing when pulling the trigger)

 

[Gordon]

I played with Trail boss loads of 405 grain 4570 cast bullets in my .458 Winmag pre 64 model 70 after shooting 20 rounds of factory ammo last month. Those loads were 1600 fps and felt like .308 Winchester to me. Trail boss fluffs well to give 80 + percent case fill and it ignites well like that. I have a couple hundred of those flat nose .458 405 grain cast boolits to play with and was able to hit 50 yard gallon jugs with the express sights which were on for the factory 500 grain ammo. Fun !

 

[Walkalong]

In a stick shift, starting from scratch, I’d do a 458 wm, or Lott, and then run lighter loads when major power factor isn’t required.

Agreed, that's what I do.

 

[earlthegoat2]

If it were me, I would do the Raptor. Only because I hunt a straight wall state. 45 Raptor is capable of taking any game on the continent, there is readily available brass and loaded ammo without having to make it if you don’t want to.

I do like the idea of the 458 because there is a better supply of bullets.

 

[BigBore44]

I’m in the 458 class too based on you already having the SoCom. You already have bullets to start load development.

 

[adcoch1]

I played with Trail boss loads of 405 grain 4570 cast bullets in my .458 Winmag pre 64 model 70 after shooting 20 rounds of factory ammo last month. Those loads were 1600 fps and felt like .308 Winchester to me. Trail boss fluffs well to give 80 + percent case fill and it ignites well like that. I have a couple hundred of those flat nose .458 405 grain cast boolits to play with and was able to hit 50 yard gallon jugs with the express sights which were on for the factory 500 grain ammo. Fun !

Gotta love duplicate POA for different loads! And a 405 at 1600fps should be pretty comfy to shoot in a bolt gun too. Hmmm. You guys got me thinking a lot here.

Last night I looked into getting a magnum bolt head for a savage short action, and while doable, it might not be quite as easy as I originally thought. I could easily build the raptor with nothing but a rebarrel in pretty much any short action rifle... And cz makes a couple different 458 mags and Lott's in the 550 magnum action.

 

[StrawHat]

When younger, maybe 4 decades ago, I had a Remington 722 reworked to handle the 458 X 2”. Loved it. 300-550 grain cast bullets put holes in paper and animals.

Also had a 45-70 Siamese Mauser. Fun, but preferred the 722.

Find the short action you like and built a 458 American.

In hindsight I may have liked the Siamese Mauser better if I did it in 405 WCF.

Kevin

 

[troy fairweather]

I really like my Siamese mauser in 45/70. I've been shooting it since I was 11. For the 458A making brass was very easy. Nice thing with the 458s they don't have to be going fast to kill well.

 

[adcoch1]

I really like my Siamese mauser in 45/70. I've been shooting it since I was 11. For the 458A making brass was very easy. Nice thing with the 458s they don't have to be going fast to kill well.

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That's a nice Mauser Troy!