5 shot revolver enough against 5 robbers

Stevel

Stevel

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A Bond 45-70 single shot Cyclops might have won the day also as everyone fled. Good for the owner but as John pointed out, he could come up to speed in training. If you have the gun stashed, no reason not to come up to whatever the state of CA allows you. But I'm just spouting cliches.
 
i’m mostly a revolver guy for all the usual reasons, but if i were a jeweler, if i couldn’t transition to a higher capacity semiauto pistol, i would either have either a second revolver handy or better yet have another employee trained up and armed.
 
5 shots is plenty if ya don't fire any.
Fortunately I have better options than a 5 shot snub.

"its all about shot placement" 🙄 - usually said by someone who has compromised the variables under their control (capacity / caliber) to cite the one that is not and will be determined when fighting for their life.

In before:
"good area"
statistics
odds

Kahr PM9 / Sig 365 > snub
 
VERY often any gun brings the fight to an end. This time looks like none of the scum had guns. So he got lucky. All too often these type scum come armed and willing to shoot. If a couple of them had started firing at him that 5 shooter would not be much. The old "any gun beats no gun" though.
 
You should have a gun on you and not have to go get it. It's not hard to conceal a 10 shot 9mm nowadays. It worked out for him but not optimal as John said.
 
I’ll have to admit that I’ve carried a 5-shot J-frame more than a few times, but I also remember the story of Lance Thomas. Massed Ayoob recorded his journey where the shopkeeper started with a J-frame, progressed to multiple revolvers, and then multiple semi-autos in response to armed robberies. He survived three, but five robbers did not.

The Ayoob files; An urban gunfighter: The lessons of Lance Thomas. - Free Online Library

Free Online Library: The Ayoob files; An urban gunfighter: The lessons of Lance Thomas. by "American Handgunner"; Hobbies and crafts Travel, recreation and leisure
www.thefreelibrary.com
 
ASP says they have never featured an encounter where the victim needed to reload. Doesn't mention if any ran out of ammo before the encounter was over. I carry 11=1 and a reload.
 
For 30 years I carried a Chief Spl LW and felt armed well enough. With the proliferation of mega-mags I carry a bit more now. It's not what some would consider enough, but I don't waste shots and am a better than average shot, even when rushed.

I carry an EC9s and extra magazine. I carry 7+1, so I have 15 rounds. I was amazed with the accuracy of the Ruger.
 
If they all run when the gun comes out, it doesn't even need to be loaded. If they all run at the first shot, then one shot is enough.

If you have to actually make a couple of hits on each one with only 5 shots, then it gets really ugly.

Assume that:
  • The defender can shoot as well as the average cop in a gunfight--that is, hitting with 30% of the shots fired.
  • There are 2 attackers
  • It takes exactly 2 hits to neutralize an attacker and the defender immediately realizes when an attacker is neutralized and doesn't waste any shots continuing to shoot an already neutralized attacker.
  • The defender has 5 shots available and gets to fire all 5 shots without getting killed or incapacitated first.
With those assumptions, the chances of success are 3.1%. That is, if that scenario is run 100 times, on average the defender will fail to get 2 hits on each attacker 97 times.

Let's say you're way better in a gunfight than the average cop.

Assume that:
  • The defender is amazingly skilled and can hit with 70% of the shots fired while moving, shooting at moving targets and being shot at.
  • There are 2 attackers
  • It takes exactly 2 hits to neutralize an attacker and the defender immediately realizes when an attacker is neutralized and doesn't waste any shots continuing to shoot an already neutralized attacker.
  • The defender has 5 shots available and gets to fire all 5 shots without getting killed or incapacitated first.
With those assumptions, the chances of success are between 50% and 55%. That is, in that scenario, the defender will fail to get the required 2 hits per attacker about half the time.
 
N555 said:
5 for 5 is fine as long as they are sober only trying to steal your stuff. Hopefully only have to shoot or shot at one and they scatter like roaches when the kitchen lights come on.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I check in on the ASP channel once in a while. Pretty much every video where a targeted person begins shooting back, all the bad guys tend to scatter. Not everytime, but almost.
 
Reminded of a story out of Texas years ago. Unless the laws there have changed significantly since I last looked into it, Texas is one of the few states where the use of deadly force is legal for property theft, even if the robber is running away, as long as this is happening at night. There was a waitress walking home after work with her hand clutching the revolver in her purse. A thief snatched her purse and began running away but she was still in possession of her revolver and shot the thief 6 times. When she was asked about 'excessive force' as in "why did you shoot him six times" she replied that her pay and tips were in her purse and she needed her money for food and rent. The reason she shot the robber six times was because when she pulled the trigger a 7th time the gun only went 'click'

It was determined to be a Good Shooting.
 
The only thing needed to make a revolver function is your finger.

You can have a compromised grip or index and a revolver will fire without fail.

I replaced my G19 with a 6-shot .327 Magnum LCR in my front pocket (Hammre Forge Hook grips), and a .22 LR LCP II in my back pocket (Desantis Nemesis) with a spare magazine.
 
It amuses me to consider the emotional impact on the fifth robber when you run out of bullets and then pull out the knife.
Click to expand...
Odds are extremely good that if a defender with a 5 round gun faces 5 attackers and the attackers don't run when the shooting starts, the defender will hit empty before getting to the third robber, let alone the fifth. The idea that one bullet per attacker is sufficient to reliably stop determined attackers in a dynamic encounter is pure fantasy. People miss in real world encounters and it often takes more than one hit to incapacitate. Lance Thomas used a 5 round revolver in his first gunfight against two robbers. It took him 3 rounds to stop the first attacker and fortunately for him the second one chose to run. He did the math and never put himself in a situation with that few rounds at his disposal again.

There will be some emotional impact all right, but the odds are very strong that it will be the defender who is impacted hardest when he is forced to switch to a knife to face the last 3 or 4 attackers.

Of course, that also assumes that the defender isn't killed or incapacitated before getting a chance to fire all available rounds.
 
Yet another internet gun forum thread that can be used by the gun control factions and the governments to bolster their argument that no citizen needs more than ten rounds.

Those who will continue to take their chances with only a J-frame never learned the lesson of NYPD Officer Arlene Beckles. Had the third robber's pistol not malfunctioned, Beckles would have been killed.
https://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/08/nyregion/police-honor-an-officer-who-escaped-death.html
https://www.nydailynews.com/2010/10...-outdueled-bandits-in-salon-16-years-ago-too/
 
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