6.5 Grendel vs the .243 what would you rather have?

[troy fairweather]

Yea, good point. Were we starting from scratch and not limited by necking up/down an already popular case, or fitting a round in a particular action length, then what would we end up with? My guess is something in-between the 6.5 Grendel and 7mm-08 would be designed from the ground up for a popular mild recoiling deer/hog hunting caliber, and something like the 7x57 AI or .284 Win for an all-around big game gun.

i love my 7x57AI

 

[d2wing]

If it were for an AR, Grendel. Otherwise .243. While I favor the 7-08, some of the most accurate rifles I have owned were .243. I regret selling a Remington 788 in 243 that was very accurate. The .243 was a winning target round in the past and they still show up and do well sometimes.

 

[CraigC]

I'm comfortable with them, a 100gr 6mm will penetrate, and expand plenty well enough to anchor some pretty big stuff.

But I prefer bigger exit wounds than the 6mms, or slower 6.5s like the Grendel, will usually give. 3k and an extra 20-30gr of bullet blow pretty impressive holes in the normal stuff I shoot.

I had a 100gr Federal blow up on a doe's ribcage. The .250Savage is a similar under-achiever unless I feed it Barnes TSX bullets. I'm just not comfortable with a bullet that doesn't hold its wad and you shouldn't have to use premium bullets for whitetail.

 

[Varminterror]

For me, it depends how fast I want them on the ground. A 243win or 6.5 Grendel is far more than enough power to get the job done on whitetails - it’s been said many times here, they just don’t take that much killing - so a guy doesn’t have to live by stoic weight retention expectations. Before I met my wife, I was killing 100-200 coyotes per season, and 9-12 whitetails, and about 15yrs ago, I asked myself - why should I treat whitetails any differently than coyotes? Any bullet I was crashing into coyotes which was fur friendly also happened to anchor them quickly. It takes a lot more powder to act this way on deer than on coyotes 1/8-1/4 their size, but it’s not too difficult to put more power down range than a 50 Vmax shoved into a 223 case. So I started shooting NBT’s and Win/CT BST’s in 7mm and 30 cal cartridges. Exit wounds the size of my pinky, smaller exit than using a more conventional soft point bullet, internal carnage in spades, and game which staggers a few yards and crumples. Putting that much power through a whitetail doesn’t require 90% retention to push a huge frontal temporary cavity. They’re remarkably easy to kill. I’ve killed literally over a hundred whitetails with rapid expansion bullets since converting my way of thinking, it’s no fluke. Just put it where it needs to go, and let ‘em blow up in the inside like a bunker buster. Minimal meat damage, fast, clean kills, and inexpensive bullets to boot...

 

[mavracer]

I voted 243, it's what I used on my first deer 35 some years ago. I don't hunt anymore so when I started shooting long range I looked at the 6.5s and in the process found an article on John Whidden's use of the 243 and bought a custom 1 in 7 twist barrel for my AR10, it absolutely kills the Grendel for drop and drift. Now that the 224 Valkyrie is out that interested me enough for a real long range AR15 platform cartridge I have no interest in a Grendel.

Although the factory ammo prospect has me really considering replacing the 243 with a 6mm Creed, especially since my RPR in 6 Creed is due to arrive Wednesday.

 

[CraigC]

For me, it depends how fast I want them on the ground. A 243win or 6.5 Grendel is far more than enough power to get the job done on whitetails - it’s been said many times here, they just don’t take that much killing - so a guy doesn’t have to live by stoic weight retention expectations. Before I met my wife, I was killing 100-200 coyotes per season, and 9-12 whitetails, and about 15yrs ago, I asked myself - why should I treat whitetails any differently than coyotes? Any bullet I was crashing into coyotes which was fur friendly also happened to anchor them quickly. It takes a lot more powder to act this way on deer than on coyotes 1/8-1/4 their size, but it’s not too difficult to put more power down range than a 50 Vmax shoved into a 223 case. So I started shooting NBT’s and Win/CT BST’s in 7mm and 30 cal cartridges. Exit wounds the size of my pinky, smaller exit than using a more conventional soft point bullet, internal carnage in spades, and game which staggers a few yards and crumples. Putting that much power through a whitetail doesn’t require 90% retention to push a huge frontal temporary cavity. They’re remarkably easy to kill. I’ve killed literally over a hundred whitetails with rapid expansion bullets since converting my way of thinking, it’s no fluke. Just put it where it needs to go, and let ‘em blow up in the inside like a bunker buster. Minimal meat damage, fast, clean kills, and inexpensive bullets to boot...

I have been very much less than impressed with bullets that don't hold together. Forget the fact that it would've been a catastrophic failure had I hit a shoulder with one, none have been DRT either. I don't like playing on the ragged edge of failure. I guess it's the cast bullet handgun hunter in me.

 

[Varminterror]

@CraigC - I can relate, but you and I both have said many, many times around here, handguns kill very differently than high velocity rifle rounds. It’s not really playing “fast and loose” with deer like some guys might assume - you’re not on the edge of failure, you’re COUNTING on the bullet to expand and fragment. Do I want to try punching the shoulder on an 800lb 6x6 with a tipped bullet? Nope (not that I punch shoulders on elk anyway). But there’s a big gap between elk and deer.

Tipped monometals, partitioned bullets, interlocking rings, and bonded cores make a big difference in making sure the core stays with the jacket, but in all of the “bullet failures” I have had with poly-tipped whitetail bullets, it occurs to me a guy shouldn’t be calling them failures when they get their bullet back, wrapped in venison.

 

[d2wing]

The above posts illustrate that a person needs to select a proper bullet designed for it's purpose. Deer are not hard to kill if you shoot them in the heart area. Even then they can go a way but they will die. Expanding bullets are required in this state for good reason and work well as Varminterror said.

 

[CraigC]

@CraigC - I can relate, but you and I both have said many, many times around here, handguns kill very differently than high velocity rifle rounds. It’s not really playing “fast and loose” with deer like some guys might assume - you’re not on the edge of failure, you’re COUNTING on the bullet to expand and fragment. Do I want to try punching the shoulder on an 800lb 6x6 with a tipped bullet? Nope (not that I punch shoulders on elk anyway). But there’s a big gap between elk and deer.

Tipped monometals, partitioned bullets, interlocking rings, and bonded cores make a big difference in making sure the core stays with the jacket, but in all of the “bullet failures” I have had with poly-tipped whitetail bullets, it occurs to me a guy shouldn’t be calling them failures when they get their bullet back, wrapped in venison.

I have to look further than just a dead critter. Expansion with some weight loss is one thing. Coming completely unglued like a varmint bullet (when it ain't one) on the ribcage of an 80lb doe is something else.

 

[LoonWulf]

I had a 100gr Federal blow up on a doe's ribcage. The .250Savage is a similar under-achiever unless I feed it Barnes TSX bullets. I'm just not comfortable with a bullet that doesn't hold its wad and you shouldn't have to use premium bullets for whitetail.

I haven't had a failure on a 6mm yet, and simply haven't shot enough stuff with my .250AI to have an opinion.
Besides it's Bbbaaaaaaad for sheep's health.....
The only bullets I use are pretty squishy, but again what I shoot isn't usually very large.

I have had some Speer 150s, launched by my 06, splatter after hitting shoulder bones on our relatively small axis. I've also had bullets pencil thru from a few different guns.

I agree the extra weight/bore dia can help in the event of a failure, but in terms of normal function, I'm comfortable with the smaller rounds. That may change eventually, but so far they have worked so well that I don't offten take my 7mm or 06 anymore.
Now I just take my .375........

 

[LoonWulf]

I have to look further than just a dead critter. Expansion with some weight loss is one thing. Coming completely unglued like a varmint bullet (when it ain't one) on the ribcage of an 80lb doe is something else.

I'd call that a bullet failure also....

Now if I found little bits under the rib cage on the far side, and everything in between jello, I'd call it perfect performance. BUT that's also the kind of effects I'm looking for, tho I prefer that mass of chunks to exit, which opens a significant hole....thus my preference for heavier, soft bullets, going fast.

 

[someguy2800]

A bullet failure to me is either the bullet blew up before it got to the bits the critter needs to live, or if it does not leave enough blood trail for me to easily find my dead critter. I know I go on about this all the time but it is such a challenge to find deer here in the tall slough grass that even if the bullet blows the heart to pieces and the deer runs 150 yards before it dies with no blood trail it might take hours to find it. Good bullet performance to me a 1" exit wound and lots of blood on the ground. We all like the DRT kills but I don't care if it runs 100 yards either as long as I have something to follow.

 

[Newtosavage]

A bullet failure to me is either the bullet blew up before it got to the bits the critter needs to live, or if it does not leave enough blood trail for me to easily find my dead critter. I know I go on about this all the time but it is such a challenge to find deer here in the tall slough grass that even if the bullet blows the heart to pieces and the deer runs 150 yards before it dies with no blood trail it might take hours to find it. Good bullet performance to me a 1" exit wound and lots of blood on the ground. We all like the DRT kills but I don't care if it runs 100 yards either as long as I have something to follow.

I couldn't agree more. As a lifelong bowhunter, I want two holes and some blood to follow. I don't want to have to shoot up a shoulder or two to drop a deer either, like a lot of folks seem willing to do. That's why I always lean toward heavy-for-caliber bullets. If a bullet doesn't pass through, then I consider that a bullet/hunter failure.

 

[Newtosavage]

Just thought I'd add this bit of range love from yesterday to the conversation.

I'm finding that 6.5 Grendel to be a very easy round to load for accuracy.

 

[The Liberal]

I’m a .243 fan. Easy to find ammo, lots of available rifles.