6th station? LnL AP

[Paddy]

So I've been lamenting a die situation on my LnL lately ever since playing with the hornady bullet feeder die on my 45acp setup. I got it working okay, and I love just having to load cases with my left hand. Only problem is that I want to run a powder cop die and my seater/crimp operations are separate which I also like. So, I basically choose between bullet feeding or powder copping.

Is there any solution that people have run across? Only ones I can think are either get a combo seat/crimp die or a case feeder and lose the bullet feeder die.
I'd love something that could feed bullets in from the side somehow.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I have always seated and crimped with one die and had zero problems.

 

[Paddy]

Yeah that seems like the way to go. Too bad because I really like my redding 3 die set, but it's seater doesn't crimp

 

[9mmepiphany]

I've considered the same thing, especially with Hornady's introduction next year of their Bullet Loading Tubes for their Bullet Feeder Die. I think you have two routes you can pursue if you want to seat and crimp in separate dies:
1. Keep the Powder Cop by sizing and priming as a separate operation
2. Lose the Powder Cop, install lighting and visually check each case for powder

I also prefer to seat and crimp semiauto handgun rounds in separate steps. I found that I prefer looking into each case to check the charge

 

[Paddy]

Yeah I'd really like to avoid the combo die on station 5 if possible, and I'd be willing to size on the single stage press if need be, although that 2 new steps due to priming, this is how I did it for a while when first using the LNL, but I began to feel I was missing out on the true purpose of the press.

What about a lighted mirror for visual into the case? Only reason I ask is that my press is mounted a bit high, and all the action on the left side makes it a chore to move and peer into the case on the right. The powder cop was great because I could glance over and get a good reading on it each pull without moving. Man if they only made it a 6 station press the blue vs red debate would be over.

Hey what's this about feeder tubes on the drop die?

 

[9mmepiphany]

They are aluminum tubes holding about 40 bullets that fit your Bullet Feed die...they come in packs of 3; look like oversized primer tubes. Each tube has a window milled out so you can see when you start running low.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-9mm-Bullet-Tube

I prefer it to the bullet feeder, because I don't like the noise of the motor running the bullet drop. That is also why I'm looking at putting together a non-motorized case feeder...adaption of the Lee Case Feeder

 

[xrayfk05]

I would skip the Hornady tubes and just buy some generic PVC tubing in the right diameter. Saves a lot of money and you can make them as long or short as you want.

Ontopic, I have used a lockout die for a while and replaced it with the bullet feeder and I see no reason to run a powder checker at all.
Visually inspect the cases before placing the bullet and trust the powder measure to dispense powder.

 

[LiveLife]

6th station LnL AP ... Is there any solution that people have run across?

Yes. Walkalong resizes and hand primes his brass separately on his LNL AP.

I have used resized and primed brass for reloading match loads on progressive presses as using resized/primed brass also reduces shell plate tilt/deflection which produces more consistent OAL/COL.

 

[Blue68f100]

I use the PTX so I can run a powder cop in station 3. I always do the crimp separately in station 5. I use a brass feeder which does not take a station. I just hand feed the bullets which gives me visual checks. I found out if your not using a collator you spend more time filling tubes than it does to just set the bullet.

 

[jmorris]

Only problem is that I want to run a powder cop die and my seater/crimp operations are separate which I also like. So, I basically choose between bullet feeding or powder copping.

The only bullet feeder that allows one to seat and crimp in two different stations and retain a powder check, is the GSI bullet feeders. They are only made for Dillon machines though.

Actually, that is not entirely true. Lee makes a bullet feeder that mounts under the die lockring, that feeds a bullet under their seat die. It is a good concept, MA Systems made a pneumatic version with metal adjustable "fingers" that held the bullets, for commershal reloaders (aka very expensive).

The Lee uses plastic fingers and if you can get it to work 100% on 300 rounds flawless you are lucky.

The instructions inform you that you may have to boil the fingers when they start spitting bullets everywhere. I would have been better off burning the $25, at least I wouldn't have waisted the time...

 

[Walkalong]

as using resized/primed brass also reduces shell plate tilt/deflection which produces more consistent OAL/COL.

Sure does. It just goes so much more smoothly in general. And, as inferred, it gives you 5 stations to use without using one for the sizer/decapper.

 

[Muddydogs]

I don't run a powder cop die never saw the need as I visually check my powder charge. It can be a challenge seeing in some cases but a well placed mirror and light usually took care of the problem. Recently I saw a post about a guy using a small camera and monitor to check his powder charges and I ended up purchasing the gear to do this. I think it cost under $50 in gear off Amazon and works great. I will see if I can find the post, not sure if it was here or some other forum.

Well here you go it was even on THR. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=745876

 

[Paddy]

Awesome yeah I've seen the cam setup but boy I sure like the hornady powder cop. It suits my rhythm. Looking at the new hornady bullet feeder system it seems they claim that the dropper "feeds, seats, and crimps". This seems like a lot of work for one little station! However if it could be set to only feed and seat, that would be all I need. Not sure if they are only for rifle though.

In re: to tubes on the old hornady feeder die, yes that's what I've been playing with, although for me its been a challenge to get the feeder to work correctly with the varying load of bulletsover it. I can't seem to get it reliable yet.

Do the gsi feeders seat the bullet?

 

[jmorris]

Yes, the GSI's feed and seat at the same station.

Do you have a link to the Hornady die that feed's, seats and crimps?

Years ago there was feeder in USPSA's magazine that I think seated at the same station but I never knew anyone that had one.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Looking at the new hornady bullet feeder system it seems they claim that the dropper "feeds, seats, and crimps".

I'm not sure what you are referring to, but it doesn't feed, seat, and crimp. All it, the bullet feeder die, does is drop the bullet into the case as the case raises.

Unless they are referring to the system as comprising of the bullet feeder and the seating die. They are designed to work together with the Powder Through Expander insert (PTX)...that is why their seating die has the sliding collar which extends below the die body.

 

[Paddy]

I'll look for the seater crimper dropper thing. Maybe i was confused.
I remember why I don't like the looking method for powder charge, it's that rifle cases, you can't see in them. So, mostly I'm thinking about 45acp but I'd be keen to come up with something that would work for other cases too, some which might be taller or smaller mouthed.
I did get some bright leds on there today so illumination should be handled. I'm considering a screen type thing. I wonder if one of those inside wall inspection scopes would work?

 

[Paddy]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003629WRQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1416432058&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX200_QL40

The other issue is that looking into case is great for confirming a double or squib type charge, I don't feel like it's as accurate as the cop. It shows like about a 1/3 grain resolution.

 

[dickttx]

Before you spend a lot of money changing your setup for the bullet seater you should use it for awhile. I added one a couple of years ago, then recently tried it again. It will go along very nice for several batches of bullets, then, all of a sudden drop all 35? bullets at once. Getting your press set back up and chasing down the bullets all over the floor, pretty well negates any time savings you have accomplished.

 

[grubbylabs]

I know its more expensive, but I am going to go for the case feeder. It will free up one thing I have to feed into the machine, and I will still be able to use the lock out die, seat, and crimp. Plus check each case as I put the bullet in.

 

[Paddy]

Okay so the new hornady rifle feeder systems claim to feed, seat, and crimp in one station.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-AP-Rifle-Bullet-Feeder

Wouldn't serve to improve my 45acp life but it's an interesting claim. Anyone use these yet?

And yeah, I've had trouble with the bullet feeder die setup, but I'm not ready to admit defeat. I'm almost wondering if reversing one of the collets would help it work. I think one of the issues is that it relies on a heavily flared case and I rather not flare that much sometimes, or, rely on it to stay open under the weight of the bullet stack.

 

[CHALK22]

That looks like it will feed, seat and crimp with that fancy new rifle bullet feeder die. I have the pistol feeder dies, and all they do is set a bullet in the charged case mouth. I have also been using thin wall plastic tubing for years before Hornady came out with their aluminum tubes. Mine are clear, and I can see every bullet. They work well too. I believe there is a thread on arfcom somewhere about the $25 bullet feeder setup. That is what I did and then made a little mount attached to my casefeeder. the tube slides right in.

 

[Paddy]

Yeah that's what I've been playing with. I have the feeder in 45acp. I think I just realized that I had the collets set up wrong inside it. By flipping them around I was able to get much more reliable feeding. I think I saw a pic on the web that showed them set up wrong. Anyway how do you orient the collets on yours?

I ran off 50 rnds of 45acp just now trying the feeder and the visual method for powder check and it's really awkward. I didn't like it too much. I would rather stay focused on the left side of the press and not have to peer down into the case.

 

[jmorris]

Paddy, thanks for the link. If they sell just the die itself I might buy one just to see what they are doing.

This is a video of one of my GSI fed 650's. PC @ #3, feed/seat @ #4 and crimp at #5.

I also use them with my cast bullets. The collator is not a GSI, rather one I made from PVC pipe and sheet plastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3hVi6PuduM

 

[Paddy]

Damn due that's badass! Your UPS person must hate you .
Yeah the new rifle feeder from hornady looks interesting, and the conversion kit for .30 looks to have the collator plate and the dropper die (seatercrimper?) for like 150$, might be a boon to the diy crowd. Isn't it basically a motor and a punch bowl and some brackets left over after the conversion change parts are off?

 

[Walkalong]

Both of those are really cool.