9/40 Bolt Gun? (Poll)

[The_Next_Generation]

Hey everyone,

I'm wondering if I'm the only one around who would be interested in a nice, modern 9mm or 40 S&W bolt action. With 22lr so hard to find, I think a bolt gun (especially in 9) would be cheap to feed (as a reloader) and would provide a little more utility than a rimfire. Also, I would think they could be made quite accurate with a good barrel and handloaded ammunition. Of course, the obvious

I am aware that some gunsmiths have made unique rifles, and that there are 45acp conversion kits available for mauser rifles. However, I would be more interested in something lighter and more modifiable (read: I want a scope, dangit). Wouldn't a super-short R700 or Savage 12 action modified to take Glock/Beretta/whatever mags with a lightweight/sporter-profile barrel be SWEET?

Share your thoughts!

 

[Charlie Horse]

You mean a modern\better handling version of this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyer_carbine

 

[R.W.Dale]

Having gone down this road myself trying to turn a pistol caliber carbine into something it's not I can tell you this.

You can only get so much accuracy from short stubby pistol bullets at low velocity.

I've owned a 77-44 I built a match barreled 16" TC encore in 9mm and a stevens200 in 45win mag various 9mm autoloaders and currently own a 77/357. I've even had the pleasure of shooting a 9mm largo destroyer.

Groups at 100 under 2" is EXCEPTIONAL with closer to 3" being the norm. A 9 mm or any other pistol carbine will not replace a really good shooting 22 in terms of accuracy.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

You got it Charlie! I came across those in my initial research, too bad they are in 9x23 largo.

I think it would be cool to have easily changeable bolt-heads and barrels so that way people could switch between 9 and 40 if they were so inclined.

R.W. Dale - I wonder why that is? Is it because the bullets aren't made to the same tolerances as rifle projectiles? Or is it a physical limitation with regard to the powder column/burn characteristics? Perhaps the brass or primers are not as uniform

 

[R.W.Dale]

I think it would be cool to have easily changeable bolt-heads and barrels so that way people could switch between 9 and 40 if they were so inclined.

It's called the ENCORE it's made by TC and a firm called MCM (match grade machine) will make you a barrel on a high quality blank

 

[R.W.Dale]

R.W. Dale - I wonder why that is? Is it because the bullets aren't made to the same tolerances as rifle projectiles? Or is it a physical limitation with regard to the powder column/burn characteristics? Perhaps the brass or primers are not as uniform

I think it's just the bullets themselves and the degrees of precision they're held to.

But you're also quite low in velocity with a 9mm with a long time in flight giving Mother Nature ample time to jack your groups up.

This is borne out by a phenomena I've noted where 50yd groups generally are much better than you'd expect from seeing the 100yd groups.

It's also my opinion that head spacing on a case mouth or a rim is not very conducive to high degrees of bullet to bore alignment and accuracy as the end result. You give a hand loader a rimmed bottlenecked rifle cartridge that he's gonna load for accuracy and THE FIRST thing he will do is fireform the case and try to set back the shoulder as minimally as possible so he can headspace off it

 

[rcmodel]

I didn't vote, because a simple 'No, not interested' wasn't one of the options I could vote for.

I didn't think it is 'Lame'.
I am just not interested at all, and wouldn't buy one if someone made one.

I can shoot my lever-action 32-20, 25-20, or .218 Bee as cheap or cheaper then I can shoot 9mm or .40.

Smaller Lighter cast bullets use less lead, and about the same amount of powder.

rc

 

[dprice3844444]

bolt gun would not be cost effective to make.too much redesign in the mag area.single shot contender/encore setup would be cheaper/lighter to make.several systems out there already in production in semi that use glock mags and grease gun mags,and with mech tech systems,glock or 1911 lowers pop right on.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I didn't vote because the option of....

"Built a bunch of these, spent tons of money and never did what I expected "

Was not supplied


This said if I ever ran across a 32/20 savage super sporter priced right I would havta buy it for the "piddle around with" factor alone

 

[Float Pilot]

Maybe in 45 if it was built around a very effective suppressor.

Oh wait, it has already been done.......The De Lisle carbine. AKA the Silent Carbine...

 

[The_Next_Generation]

And here I thought 6 options was enough

The encores are cool, and certainly on my radar. I just think a repeater would be a lot of fun.

I guess the headspace/accuracy issues with rimless cartridges is why people choose to go rimmed and chamber for 38/357/44? I wonder if there would be a way to overcome these problems.

Yes, the De Lisle carbines are REALLY cool. I watched a video of one and it seemed super quiet. Although it doesn't seem to be lightweight/easily modifiable.

 

[rcmodel]

Probably!

No need to reinvent the squeaky wheel.

rc

 

[ugaarguy]

I think the appeal of 9mm Luger in a long gun is cheap factory ammo for plinking rather using hand loads, and I think that role is better filled by a semi-auto than a turn bolt.

For a turn bolt repeater geared toward hand loads I'd rather have it chambered in .357 Mag. The longer .357 Mag cases are easier to handle when loading, and for plinking use the .357 Mag only requires a grain or two more powder than 9x19mm. The .357 Mag also gives one a bit more versatility.

However, if you want a 9x19 turn bolt rifle go for it. 9x19 has a case head that's just slightly larger than a .223 Rem case head, so any .223 bolt should work with minimal (possibly zero) modification. Rifles like Savages are pretty easy to rebarrel or have rebarreled, so a Savage in .223 might be a good starting point.

 

[Revoliver]

I'll stick with my 77/357.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

ugaarguy, agreed. A 357mag rifle certainly has an edge over the 9mm. Good point on the cases being easier to handle. Also, *cough* GO JACKETS *cough* *cough*

One of the main reasons I'm interested in the 9/40 for this type of rifle is having readily available magazines that feed reliably. The plus side of both calibers is that lead bullets are cheap and widely available.

I'd like to load for it just because 9mm is the next cheapest thing after 22lr, which I have not been able to find for a reasonable price/in large quantity (like everybody else) in quite some time. I suppose 357mag/38spl is pretty cheap too, but I like the idea of the mags.

 

[ZGunner]

I already have an M1 Carbine so I think another carbine in a true pistol caliber would be redundant bolt action or not. I like the M1, it sure isn't the most accurate but it's handy to have around for critters that get too close.

I'm never opposed to having more firearms though.

 

[yzguy87]

If I wanted a bolt action carbine it would be the Ruger 77/44. If I had the extra $$$ I'd make a project gun out of it by threading the barrel and suppressing it.

 

[bannockburn]

I wouldn't use the word Lame in terms of such a product but I really would be hard pressed to have any interest in a bolt action 9mm. or .40 S&W.

 

[Sav .250]

The "pole" is taking shape!

 

[mavracer]

It's pretty close to lame. It just doesn't do anything that couldn't be done with my 357 lever and now that Ruger makes the 77/357 there's a bolt thats easy to scope.

 

[tahunua001]

I tried to build a 45ACP enfield. the kit was garbage and required a lot more work than I have to skills to put into it but I was at least able to get it able to fire... fun idea.

guys buy the ruger 44 and 357 carbines. why not a bolt gun that can take glock or other handgun type mags. I think if ruger took their m77 rotary idea and made one in auto calibers that took SR series mags, they would have a real winner on their hands.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

I agree, the Rugers are very nice. However, I think they are just a tad expensive for what they are. Although that probably has something to do with their lack of total popularity.

I would think a decent 9/40 bolt gun could be made for $400-$500 (real-world price), of course there would have to be sufficient demand. I would be surprised if it took much more steel to make than what's in a CZ 452/455. They get away with some pretty thin parts on those single-stack 9mm pistols.

An obvious advantage of a 9mm chambering would be ammo interchangeability.

I wonder if it would be possible to headspace off of the base of the case if the extractor held it close enough to the bolt face?

 

[henschman]

I didn't vote because no category fits. I just plain wouldn't be interested. Not because I think it would be lame if it wasn't semi auto... I just wouldn't have any use for such a thing.

 

[sappyg]

Absolutely no interest. Couldn't vote.

 

[M1key]

Well, maybe a bolt gun in a pistol caliber is all the govt will let us have some day.

In that case make my 40 a 10mm.

SC