9mm diagnosis please?

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judgedelta

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I'm trying to load for my Fusion 9mm 1911. It has been to the factory and back and I'm apparently having some problem with my load that I can't diagnose. I'm loading 5.2 grains of Autocomp under a 124 gr. Rocky Mountain Match which measures .356"; Winchester SP primers; loading it to 1.16 due to the short ogive. Cartridges will "plunk" in the barrel to correct length.

Pistol will fire and cycle, then misfire sometimes. No stovepipes or nosedives, just goes click and faint primer strike or just a smear. Took firing pin out and just a couple of tiny pieces of primer around pin.

The gunsmith at Fusion tried it with Speer Lawman and couldn't get it to misfire. I got Lawman and can't get it to misfire either. Primer strikes are weak and to the top of primer, but shoots every time.

Attached picture. Misfires at top, reloads that fired in middle and Speer Lawman on bottom row. Thanks for any help or educated guesses.

photo-3_1.jpg
 
Question: If you put one of the misfires back into the gun, will it fire when re-struck?
 
I would think the primers are seated. I use a RCBS hand primer and have been loading 7 or 8 years. They are slightly below flush.

The misfires will fire as regularly as the other reloads.
 
It appears that the misfires will fire if they get a good hammer strike. I think I'll try them in my Glock...
 
OK, let's make a list of possible explanations and pros and cons of those theories:

1. Primers not seated, too much of hammer/firing pin force being used to complete seating.
Pros: Happens to reloaders (even good ones) from time to time, not inconsistent with evidence of some strikes being deeper than others.
Cons: You're an experienced reloader and say they're all below flush.
Possible test method(s): Take some of your unfired reloads from same loading sessions and carefully examine for any high primers; load another batch paying particular attention to this variable and holding out any that don't have primers that aren't deeply seated.

2. Primers bad from factory.
Pros: Anything is possible.
Cons: Probably explanation of last resort.
Possible test method(s): Try another batch of primers from different carton.

3. Primers bad as installed - damaged/contaminated
Pros: Consistent with variable ignition
Cons: Somewhat inconsistent with visibly different depth of strike.
Possible test method(s): Pull some misfires, examine primers for missing priming compound, discoloration, clumping of powder.

4. Hard cups on primers
Pros: Different manufacturers have different hardness of primer cups; consistent with apparently light strikes on one brand of primers, apparently good strikes on others.
Cons: Speer Lawman probably uses CCI primers, and CCI are known to be fairly hard; Winchester not generally reputed to be harder than CCI, though not soft like Federal.
Possible test method(s): Try a different brand of primer.

5. Primer intolerant of off-center strikes.
Pros: Would be consistent with inconsistent ignition, and firing pin does appear to strike well off-center.
Cons: Is this a thing? Never heard of it...
Possible test method(s): Try a different brand of primer; try reloads in different handgun.

6. Oversized ammo not properly headspacing, firing pin energy absorbed driving cartridge into chamber.
Pros: Not inconsistent with reloads giving trouble, factory ammo running fine.
Cons: You say passed plunk test.
Possible test method(s): Get case gauge cut to SAAMI minimum and check; try reload in another gun known to have a tight chamber; repeat plunk test with careful attention to full seating.

7. Underlength cases not headspacing on rim, extractor holding cartridge to face but loosely, allowing cartridge to shift and absorb FP energy.
Pros: I've heard people claim this can happen.
Cons: I've not actually seen this happen.
Possible test method(s): Measure cases of misfires, see if consistently shorter than rounds that fired.

8. Gun's hammer spring too weak.
Pros: Consistent with light strikes.
Cons: Doesn't explain why factory ammo will run, given suspected hardness of factory ammo primers (CCI - see above).
Possible test method(s): Try a couple more factory ammo types; replace hammer spring with heavier weight.

9. Problem with firing pin/firing pin channel/firing pin retaining plate/etc.
Pros: Consistent with light strikes, possibly intermitent (alignment of burs, FP catching sometimes but not always)
Cons: Can't replicate with factory ammo. (But maybe small sample size? Maybe different conditions (e.g., testing in air conditioned indoor range causes metal to shrink??) generates different results?)
Possible test method(s): Carefully inspect FP, FP channel, FP plate; keep trying to induce malfunction with factory ammo under same conditions as reloads manifest.

That's all I can think of right now.
 
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OP said he and the manuf had both tried one brand of factory ammo and no misfires.
 
99% or better of primer problems is not being fully seated. Not just below flush, but fully seated to the bottom of the primer pocket.

My RCBS hand primer wore to the point it would not seat large pistol primers deep enough anymore and I had to make a new plunger for it.

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Ended up having to do it for small rifle as well.
 
Show a pic of the crimp on those mis-fires. If they are over crimped, they could be head spacing too deep into the throat.

But just looking at them, they appear as shallow seated primers. The area around the firing pin strike is caving in, this is indicative of proud primers. And if they do in fact fire on a subsequent try, it's just about certain the primers aren't completely seated.

GS
 
Those primer indentations look pretty far off-center. They might be a bit high and thus not allowing full lock up, but not bad enough to be out of battery to prevent firing. High primers often have a high mis-fire rate. Your OAL could still be a bit too long.

As has already been asked, if you thumb cock the hammer after a mis-fire do they go the second time?

Are factory loads struck this far off center? Edit: Sorry, see you already said they were. I'd suggest another trip back to the maker, the primers should be struck much closer to center than these are, something ain't right with this gun.
 
Those misfires have been fired in my Sig 228. Loaded up 10 rounds with Federal Primers, 9 shot, one misfire, it fired on the second try. Picture attached, some primer strikes so light a wonder the round fired. A couple of pierced primers, no idea there. Overpressure from loading short? Recoil on these loads from a 5" 1911 is very light.

photo-4.jpg
 
I've had pierced primers caused by the primer not being seated. Primer tight against the bolt, pin hits the primer and the displaced metal has no place to go, so the pin punches a hole, at which time the primer ignites.

Test by loading some primers in brass, like you usually do. Then check the primer height with a straightedge. It happens to the best of us, as explained by Walkalong.
 
Loaded up another 10 with Federal primers and 4 grns. of 231. All shot with no issues, empties all landing in same place about 4 feet away. Giving up on the Autocomp and will try it in the .38 super and .45 acp. Thanks all for observation and advice. Still don't understand the weak primer strikes and pierced primers. May change the main spring for something a little stronger. Don't know what I have or how to put a main in, but I can learn and still have something else to shoot in the meanwhile. Thanks again. JD

Edit: I don't think the primers are high. I set them until the impression of the rod was on the primer. Federal primers are soft.
 
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Try this

Put a fired case (with a non-live primer) in the magazine and carefully feed it into the chamber as the slide closes. Ride the slide and don't let it close completely. With the slide almost closed but not fully, pull the trigger. When you pull out the empty case, you might see a light off center strike like your misfires.

That means the slide is not closing fully with all of your cartridges. The slide may seem to be fully closed because it will jump forward that last 1% when the hammer falls, but it wasn't fully closed when you pulled the trigger.

If that's the case, something is preventing the slide from closing 100% whether it is a fat bullet not going fully into the throat (shouldn't be true if your plunk tests were successful), the extractor getting hung up and not letting the rim to slide under it (may be dirty), a dirty breechface or a weak recoil spring.

Hope that helps.
 
I never have liked that firing pin strike, but apparently this factory thinks that is all right.
I will try the slightly open slide. There is something wrong.
 
The firing pin channel may have a burr in it from the time of manufacture. Try shooting the gun up side down, so the pin rides in a different position in the channel. Another common reason is the metal from the pierced primers is inside the channel, it needs to be cleaned.
 
I never have liked that firing pin strike, but apparently this factory thinks that is all right.

Never had a Fusion firearm, but my opinion of them just sunk dramatically after hearing this, such that I now doubt I ever will!
 
I have a Glock that gives off center primer strikes sometimes. The slide does not fully return to battery, but it's far enough forward the trigger pulls and the striker fires. the primer however doesn't like to be hit that far off center so no bang. They all go off on the second attempt/once going into battery.

I still haven't figure out what is wrong with my reloads for this Glock model 29 (10mm). They are also plated bullets (berry) 135 grain. CCI primers.

Factory loads and reloads with XTP 200 gr have no issue with slide returning to full battery and proper centered primer strikes. I think either the case becomes a little chubby from the plated bullet, the brass needs to be trimmed, or the throat is just very tight.

I have disassembled looking for burrs (all good)and tried heavier recoil springs(no improvement). Estimated failure rate 15%. If there was more free time...
 
The pistol was doing exactly the same thing before I sent it back to the factory. Today, with the reduced 231 loads and the Federal primers, there were some primers that were almost pierced, but it was shooting and cycling so far (only 10 rounds). Auto comp, made to shoot in compensated pistols, for some kind of competition, produces high gas and apparently high pressure. It is "snappy" in .45, but shoots OK, same in .38 super. This 9mm doesn't like it, but I still don't think that explains the funky firing pin strikes. If it is going into battery and the hammer is falling and the firing pin is free of obstruction (I have taken it out and checked) each strike should be about the same. They are not. The firing pin strikes on the Speer ammunition are pretty good, even if off center. On the reloads, they are not consistent. The bullet is plated and measures .356, which is larger than the somewhat standard .355 for 9mm ammo (but great for .38 super). The chamber may be tight and not quite allowing the slide to go fully into battery. I appreciate the suggestions and will check all of this out over the weekend.
 
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