9x18 defense ammo?

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MCgunner

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I bought this P64 Radom, Polish gun in 9x18 (see thread) and I've been cruising some sites looking for defensive ammo. I found a site that's interesting.... http://alandp0.tripod.com/9x18/ ....and checked around. Seems CorBon has discontinued their loading. Hornady seems to be it and it's a little weak, on a .380 level. Fiocchi lists a hollowpoint at decent levels, but it's hard to find. Midway has a "coming soon" for Silver Bear hollowpoing at 13 bucks for 50 or something like that.

So, what do you 9x18 guys carry?
 
I found out by cruising the net that one can trim 9x19 cases to 18mm. I checked and they look identical at the case head. SO, I ordered a Lee case trimmer gauge, a .365" round nose mold, and a Lee die set. I figure bullseye will work. I'll worry about working up a load when I get the stuff.

I tried to order some Hornady XTPs, but they were on back order. I'll look around, we have a local gun shop in a nearby town that carries a lot of bullets and reloading supplies. I didn't wanna back order it and pay extra shipping for the backorder. I'm probably going to have to work up some loads for it considering the lack of ammo now days. I have a good supply of primers and they're not in short supply at that shop mentioned.
 
Fiocchi FMJ is rated at 265 ft lbs and is very affordable. It's way more powerful than anyother 9X18 except Buffalo Bore, which generates only 10 or so more ft lbs. I use the Fiocchi for practice and defense. Most others are 200-230 ft lbs.

Personally, I think that the caliber is borderline for hollowpoints regarding power & velocity. I'd rather have guaranteed penetration than a shallowly placed, expanded hollowpoint.

If you must do hollowpoints, Pow'RBalls supposedly sail along at 1250 fps; that should be quick enough for a hollowpoint. They're about 240 ft lbs. I still think that they'll come to rest somewhat shallowly placed, though.
 
NorthBender did some great work over at the Makarov Forum and has a large list, chrono's and specs of almost every MAK ammo made. Sadly much of this ammo is no longer available for various reasons.

Check it out, good reading.


http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?299-9x18-Ammunition-Data-Post


The only HP's that were really special were the discontinued Corbon. Silver Bear is OK. And the Power Ball is hot but a very unproven and little used round. Power ball has been out a while and you don't see any feedback on it.

If I didn't have the discontinued Corbons I would use the no longer imported PS Grand FMJ ammo, which was good and hot.

Northbender also has a new post on HP's although not as detailed.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?3217-9x18-Wetpack-Penetration-Tests-Updated-Archived-Post
 
Hornady, PowRball, and SilverBear all make great Hollow Point ammo that works fine in them. Personally, I use the hornady XTP. But if you find that your particular pistol doesn't like the hornady, the silver bear is more tapered and feeds better, and the powRball looks and feeds like a FMJ but is Hollow Point through and through. And they work fine.
 
I'd either use Hornady or FMJ. The Mak is not a 9x19 so no use trying to make it one.

Just use Hornady or fmj and practice alot.
 
I carry Gold Dots loaded by Georgia Arms in my Makarov. My CZ-82 dosn't feed them, so I just use FMJ's from whatever case of ammo I happen to be burning though at the time.
--Stork
 
Probably Glaser, but they don't offer it in 9mm MAK.

I was at the Gun show yesterday in Lewiston, Idaho.

a guy had a table full of MAK ammo for sale.

Made me wish I still had a CZ82!

I'll eventually pick one up that has been Duracoated
and put some nights on it.

Then buy a spare barrel in .380 for it, too!

Right now I have a new P-07 Duty on my desk and will be
playing with that for a while.
duty-slide.gif
The CZ82 project will probably be in the fall.

Know that I carried the Fiocchi and Hornday with confidence
in both 9MM Mak and .380 acp.

As the weather warms up, people will be looking at the smaller CZs.

83z.gif
 
I guess I just had it in my head that 9x18 was 70 ft lbs or so hotter than .380. There are limits to what a blow back pistol can be loaded to, of course. I'll try to scam some Hornady somewhere.
9x18 are hotter than 380. How much, depends on the ammo. Some can be considerably hotter. But realize also that unlike a 380, 9mm, 38spl, or 357 magnum; the 9x18 9mm makarov is also a Larger Diameter bullet. It is .364 instead of .355. Does that seem like a lot? No, but the larger diameter affects the effectiveness as much if not more than equal amounts of kinetic energy. So, take a 9x18 makarov that averages say 20 ft/lbs of energy above a 380acp; and add on a 3-4% increase in diameter, and you have a better round than just a bullet that's going just a little bit faster with the same weight bullet.

And no, there are NO LIMITS to what a blow-back pistol can be loaded to. With all the debates going on about hi-points, people would know by now that there are blow-back pistols also in 9mm luger (Para), 40sw, and 45acp. Yes, you have to build a slide that is heavier and sturdier, as well as making a spring that is compatible; but it is totally doable. But that's why the hi-point is heavy, bulky, and ugly. And thus why most people don't want one. But there's been quite a few companies and calibers throughout history that has made heavy duty blow-back pistols.

Most gun shops sell the hornady XTP in 9mm makarov. But if you're interest in Corbon PowRball ammo, you can buy that directly from them. Go to the corbon website. And while Kinetic Energy is a Crock of Shiite used for marketing, look at the PowRball. It's only a 70 grain bullet instead of the 94-95 average grain, but it's traveling at 1250fps which is between 200-300 fps faster than any 380 or normal 9mm makarov 9x18. And the kinetic energy is about 242 ft/lbs. And at that speed, the .364 diameter 70 grain bullet, WILL penetrate and it WILL expand. And for what it's worth, Buffalo-Bore is also coming out in the next few months with a 9mm Makarov 9x18 95 grain +P which hits 1125 fps and 267 ft/lbs; as well as a 115 grain at 1000 fps and 255 ft/lbs. The first is a hollow point, the second is a flat nose. Excellent penetration.

Also, while it's hard to find except once in a while on gunbroker, there's some good hot russian and east block 109-115 grain 9x18 ammo available. I've spoken to 3 different ammo importers and they say that the ammo is still quite available overseas, but with such a large influx of "Smaller" sized 9x18 pistols, most importers don't want to deal with liability issues with selling ammo that might be too hot for a p64, pa63, and similar. We're talking about ammo that was really intended for the TRUE Makarov (Russian, E. german, Bulgarian, and chinese) or the Czech CZ-82. I still have some of this ammo. Definitely some hot stuff. Wolf bought out TCW and you can still find some 109 grain floating aroung.

But seriously, the 9x18 makarove caliber is a fantastic self defense round. It works great with Hornady, PowRBall, and Silver Bear Hollow Points. You don't need to shoot FMJ through it. But if you want to, then Fiocchi, Silver Bear FMJ or S&B is the best FMJ.
 
I think I'll just work up a load with the XTP bullet. I wanna stick with 95 grains as the gun seems to be regulated for that. What ain't a crock in guns this weak is that one should strive for accuracy. When the bullet lacks the pop, getting it in the right place is uber important. It's important even with a .375 H&H, actually, let alone the .380/9mm Mak stuff. I gotta admit, this thing is accurate, as accurate as my .38 snub even if it's a bit weaker and the bullet doesn't have the weight/penetration. Payback is ease of carry and reload speed. :D

I do agree 50 or so ft lbs ain't a biggy. We ain't talkin .357 magnum here. I'm only getting something under 200 ft lbs from my .380 and feel 250 from the Mak should be safe as a handload goal. As you mention, some of the factory stuff is up to that. The bullet is only 5 grains heavier and less than a c*** hair bigger so I really don't feel the bullets are that much different. In ball ammo, the .45 trumps the 9, but a 9mm +P has merit with a hollowpoint. There's a lot less difference, though, between the power capabilities of the mak and the .380. I need to wrap my mind around that and live with it. :D I bought the gun more because I wanted it than anything else, just trying to optimize it as a carry choice. I know it's no 9x19. I carry a Kel Tec P11, lighter, smaller, a little fatter, but 11 rounds capacity vs 7. That gun pushes a 115 grain XTP to 1262 fps/410 ft lbs. It is a first choice pocket carry weapon and I don't know if i'll ever had NEED to carry the Mak, but I might carry it anyway just because I can. :D

I'll pick up some Hornady bullets and get around to working up a load with it. I'm going to trim 9x19 brass for it. That's another reason for the dies, 9x19 brass is free for the picking. I wouldn't bother reloading the thing if I had to buy the brass for it. But, via casting and free brass, it'll be as cheap to load as anything I have. A few grains of bullseye and a primer, 5 dollars a hundred, figure, for range fodder.

I'm going to load down with the range stuff, too. I do that for my 9mm stuff. It's just powerful enough to work the slide. That way, my brass piles up at my feet and I don't have to go searching for it. I take a 5x8 plastic tarp to the range with me to facilitate this. See, there's one big time advantage to revolvers. :D
 
The Hornady load, while decent, is underloaded and overpriced. I used to shoot the Silver Bear 115gn load in both the P64 and CZ82...that was a HOT round that functioned perfectly in my pistols, and was accurate as well.
I am perfectly satisfied with FMJ in this caliber, and generally use SilverBear or S&B.
 
Here are the loads I've chrono'd out of a Makarov. I keep mine loaded with the Barnaul JHP's but they should be the same as the Silver Bear 95gr JHP's as Barnaul makes Silver Bear ammo.

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Check Out Buffalo Bore

Kinda like what they have under the "Coming Soon" section:

9X18 Makarov+P----Velocities derived from 4 inch Mak pistols

* 95gr. JHP@ 1125 fps
* 115gr. Hard cast-FN@1000 fps

For SD rounds they will be pricey, but likely work :evil:
 
McGunner; FWIW. I have my Sig P220 in 45acp; I have my Springfield and Kimber 1911A1; I also have 2 different 9mm lugers. P226 and a HP C-9. And my #1 carry pistol of ALL my pistols in my collection, is my CZ-82 9mm Makarov. I consider it to be the BEST carry pistol of all. We're talking about "Self Defense", NOT "Home Defense". Self defense is in the 10-20 foot range. Contrary to some beliefs, self defense is NOT a "Gun Fight". You're not diving behind dumpsters and returning fire and swapping out magazines. "Die-Hard" and "Lethal Weapon" are movies. I say this not for your benefit, you never implied differently. But others read and respond to posts and they might try and jump in with "40sw is better than your 9mm makarov". or "You have a 45acp and 9mm, you should use them over a 9mm makarov". I just wanted to say that the 9mm makarov is an excellent "Self Defense" caliber. It penetrates, it expands, it's not too much recoil, it's ball on accurate, and a CZ-82 is about the most reliable and dependable gun you could ever find. You mentioned wanting to optimize it as a carry gun. Well, many european police and military have not had a problem using it for years. I don't think it needs much optimizing. And with ammo being about the cheapest of ALL calibers, for plinking ammo, I decided that I didn't want to reload for it. After I settled down with hornady and Silver Bear HP for self defense, I don't need to practice or shoot with either of those. I shot enough to know it's reliable, and at 10-20 feet, there is no accuracy difference. So I spend $8-$10 a box for plinking ammo. But again, it is a fantastic self defense weapon. For carry purposes, I carry it at least twice as often as my P220 or any other gun I own.
 
Good points christcorp. Yeah, I often carry a .38 revolver knowing I'm not going to an IDPA match, just want self defense on the street. I really like my revolvers. I was seriously not going to mess with reloading this caliber until I found out that 9x19 brass could be trimmed for it. The prospect of free brass was all it took, ordered the dies, the mold, etc. I'm a sucker for cheap. :D But, the price of Silver Bear is down right affordable off the net and I'll probably order a stash when I can find some available, but I need to build up some money stash first as I'm a little thin after buying gun and reloading stuff. When I order a 500 round order, I'll likely go with the Silver Bear hollow point if that's an option just to have it as carry or range fodder. And, that'll be plenty to prove the gun with it. I like to put a couple hundred rounds through any gun before carrying that fodder and Hornady or especially Buffalo Bore is pricey for that testing.

I'm liking this gun a LOT. Accuracy does that to me, and with cheap ammo to boot! Man, just knowing how good it shot with that Silver Bear ball (3" benched at 25 yards and straight to POA), I'm wondering if I can improve it with handloads. The group was about 3" high and 2" in width which might indicate some inconsistency in velocity, but at 25 yards, maybe not. I have other field guns, but this little fart wouldn't be bad as an outdoor companion with accuracy like that, could take small game with it,

Anyway, I picked some brass up yesterday, mostly .40. It was all headstamped "FC" which I assume is federal, but looked like a military head stamp. Weird. Anyway. I have several hundred rounds of 9x19 brass stashed already and a bunch loaded up so I really don't need it all for my 9s. It might be kinda stupid to reload for this thing, but I'm a handloader for the last 40+ years and I just can't NOT handload for it. I wasn't going to because of the brass situation, but if I can use 9x19, hell, why not? :D Hell, I've got dies for 7.62x39, too, but rarely use 'em anymore due to the ridiculously low price of excellent Wolf 154 soft point....when it's available anymore. :rolleyes: That stuff shoots great. Brass for that caliber can't be made out of anything else. I do have a little stash of IMI brass, but it's not worth the effort when Wolf is so cheap. So, I may wind up in that position with the Mak, but I will have the option to handload it if I can't find ammo. That's always a bonus.
 
CZF said:
Made me wish I still had a CZ82!
Then buy a spare barrel in .380 for it, too!

Pardon my ignorance, but I've seen reference to this before and I can't quite wrap my head around it.

How do you replace the barrel on a fixed barrel handgun?
 
Barrels on fixed guns like the 82 and the Makarov can be pushed out of the frame bracket that holds it. That way armoreser could replace a damaged or worn barrel without wasting the entire lower frame.

Makarov.com used to sell a barrel press which once the barrel was loosened, a pin held in the makarov barrel, you simply turned the crank and the pusher device pushed the barrel out.

It was not as easy as it sounded or as the directions stated.
 
I just load mine up with Wolf or Bear FMJ. Even with a polished ramp, my P-64 doesn't feel JHP very well. For a gun of this size, I'm going with penetration. The lil' bugger is more accurate than it has any reason to be. With decent shot placement, I certainly don't feel like I'm really all that undergunned.

Actually packing on my hip today as I type:)
 
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