A bit of help CCW-ing for a newbie

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MacViolinist

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In case you couldn't tell, I am a violinist. I am based in Waco, Texas (as if there were another) but I play orchestras in Dallas/Ft. Worth, Temple, Austin, Houston, Beaumont, San Angelo, Abilene.....you get the picture. I've been shooting all my life, but last year my girlfriend talked me into getting CHL'd. Not too often that it happens that way, but whatever. So you get the idea. I drive a lot, so lots of time sitting. When I get to the gig I sit for 3-6 hrs rehearsing/performing. When I am not gigging, I fix computers and, oh yeah, I am a full time college student. I just gave myself a Steyr M40 for Christmas after lots of careful research both here and at TFL. I don't want to open up the safety discussion again, I just want to know if there is anyone in a similar situation (lot's of sitting, squeezing into awkward potions behind desks and whatnot) with a similar sized gun that could reccommend a holster system, area of carry or whatever. Also, one of the things I am not too clear on is what constitutes concealed. Does it have to be impossible to spot, or just impossible to identify as a gun or what? My GF thinks I am sometimes not concealed enough, but she knows what I carry and where so perhaps is biased. Any help would be appreciated, or, alternately if you want to just tell me to look harder in the archives that's ok too. Thanks in advance. drew
 
Firstly - welcome here! :)

Well ..... ''how long is a piece of cord''???

There are so many ways to achieve your goal .... tho I'd say straight away ..... concealed - is concealed .... no one should know!

Depends so much on your chosen dress ... or necessary dress. IMO as long as you have an outer garment ... shirt, jacket ...... then you have many choices.

IWB, OWB .... but at 4 o'clock or so .... who is gonna know? And it ain't gonna be in the way with sitting.

I imagine with the music aspect ..... you'll be in a tux or similar ..... to me, that is ideal camoflage!!

As i said ......... so many choices. I expect many suggestions will follow. In the end it will- as ever - be what works, for you.
 
Thanks for the tips P95. I'm not so much concerned about the gun being uncomfortable to sit with as much as being able to get to it while sitting. I don't suppose there is much reason to use a gun while driving, but being able to get to it while entering and exiting the vehicle is pretty important.

I do spend way too much of my time in a tux, which we in the orchestra refer to it oh so affectionately as "the monkey suit", and it is good camoflage, but you don't wear a belt with a tux so it's a little difficult to support the weight. I don't care about tearing my current tux up, but I'm about to buy a new one as I've been wearing this one 3 or 4 times a week since I was 16!:rolleyes:

Anyway, I guess the point is I know that it's a personal thing, but I don't have much money to invest on a bunch of different ways of carry so I was just asking if anyone else has a similar situation/gun and could offer some suggestions and save me some cash.

Thanks again P95. Oh yeah. I almost forgot. A little bit of smart talk from the newbie.

If a piece of cord exists then it is exactly as long as it is. If the piece of cord exists only as a question, its length is irrelevant. -me ;)
 
Concealed Carry

Carrying concealed successfully is as much a matter of how comfortable you are with the gun's presence as it is the size of the gun or the clothing. While it's important that the gun be hidden from view, it's equally, if not more important that you are able to ignore it. More often than not, when a
police officer or other ringer spots the gun, it's because the person
carrying it keeps pointing to it by adjusting the rig (comfort) tugging at the
shirt or coattail (Reassuring himself that it's still covered), or some
other body language that the average person won't notice, but the
practiced eye will spot immediately.

Find a good rig...one that doesn't move or shift with your movements.
Practice carrying it around your home to get accustomed to its presence.
Learn to bend, stoop, and reach upward and forward without revealing
the gun. I have become adept at feigning a stiff back whenever I have to pick up something in public. This will take some adjustment to your normal body movements during these everyday tasks. Choose GOOD leather. Skimping on cost here will be counterproductive. This may entail buying more than one rig, or trying on several until you hit the right one to suit your needs.

Learn to check the position of your shirt or coat discreetly by grasping it
between two fingers as your hand goes past the gun's position while
walking. This can be done quickly and smoothly during the natural movement of your arm. It would take someone actually watching you closely to spot the movement, and only then if you do it more than once.

Above all...keep your hand away from it until you can get into a restroom
stall to adjust the rig. Fiddling with it will give you away in two seconds.
It's possible to hitch up your pants as you exit a vehicle without drawing
attention...This is something that many people do as a matter of habit.
Just don't do it after you head for wherever you are going. With a strong
side carry, slightly behind the hip bone, you can even get away with
sweeping your coat or shirt tail back to get access to the belt while
hitching up, as long as your hand stays forward of the gun, and the garment isn't swept back far enough to show it.

Your success will be apparent when you forget that the gun is there, but
are acutely aware of when it's not.

Luck to ya!

Tuner
 
Generally, I recommend a belt holster worn strong side, but your situation is a little different. As you said, tux's aren't worn with a belt. That changes the dynamics a lot. If you can find tux trousers with belt loops, buy them. If not, try a good paddle holster.
Being in a sitting position and trying to draw leads me to think of either crossdraw (FIST makes an interesting crossdraw/drivers rig) or a shoulder holster. I have a crossdraw for an N frame Smith. Not concealable, but easy to carry/draw. I have two shoulder holsters that I never wear, but it may be the ideal solution for you. Choose a good one and wear some type of jacket/hawaiian/baggy shirt over it . Since you're getting a new tux (Mr. Bond), have the jacket tailored for your needs.
I hate to say it, but you might have to compromise on gun size/caliber. Look at the Kahr line. Perfect for your discreet carry needs.
 
Welcome to THR!

Given that you will be wearing a jacket it seems to me you have quite a few choices.

The most comfortable would be a shoulder holster. You'd need to have your girlfriend verify for you that it can not be seen by any possible angle while you play, but it seems to me it should be fine. That would give you the most comfort while being accessible at any time with equal ease.

I wish I had that option, but I never wear a jacket (including in the winter most of the time!) so that wouldn't work for me.

My next suggestion would be the same as mu buddy Chris (above). Either IWB (inside waist band) or OWB (outside) at approx the 4:00 position (assuming you are right-handed). Both require a belt, though.

Personally, I carry IWB at 4:00 with an outer untucked (unbottoned) shirt over a colored t-shirt. That is comfortable and there's no way you can detect the gun.

There's always pocket carry (not with your gun), but that has the disadvantage of being fairly inaccessible while sitting.

Picking a holster is both frustrating and fun! Don't expect to be thrilled with your first choice, but you'll get it right eventually. Go to one of the numerous gun shows we have around here and spend a half-hour trying on a bunch of different types at one of the tables. You can bring your gun with you to make sure it's comfortable with the gun in it.

Have fun!

Regards,
ChickenHawk

PS- when will you be playing in Austin again? My wife and I haven't gone out for classical in too long!
 
Here's how I carry my M40-

OWB in a Don Hume JIT slide holster I bought off ebay. The holster was orginally made for a Sig p239 but I made it fit my Steyr and it works great. If you go OWB then you need to get something that rides kinda high.

jitslid.png


IWB I picked up one of these from Highnoon. It works pretty well. I had it modified to that it is at an 15 degree cant so that it keeps the grip running along my back instead of sticking out just a little. I have a sweet spot at about 4:30 that it settles right into and is pretty comfortable. The rig is kinda hard to spot as long as I'm wearing my black belt, (the black belt is wide and covers the clip) just make sure that you have enough room in your pants.

MLMBU[KNXSQEMQXIDLJP-Steyr%20Cult.png

I like having these two options because it allows me to dress less around my gun and more how I feel like.

The paddle hoster idea is a good one, but finding a kydex for the M40 is a little hard to do. You might want to go this route.
 
Thanks for all the tips guys. I just went to the range today and one of the guys out there gave himself an M40 for Christmas too! He had a friend of his do a custom IWB kydex paddle job for his and he let me try it on for the duration of the shoot and I think I'm going to go for that for day to day carry. I figure when I get my new tux, I'll go for a double-breasted jacket and wear a shoulder rig. On a side note, I've been on tour with a string quartet in NY for the last 8 months or so and it really is good to be back where people don't give you the evil eye for speaking of a gun with some degree of fondness.

ChickenHawk:
I'm planning a fundraiser for the orchestra that I manage and if I can work out the logistics, I'll be giving a recital sometime in the late spring. In the meantime, check out the Austin Symphony. They're starting to sound pretty good.

Thanks again everyone.

-drew
 
If your interested in Kydex then give Comp-Tac, Fist, or Sidearmor a look.

My fav is Comp-Tac. Do a search on kydex or one of the manufactures here for plenty of good info.
 
#1: Get new Tux pant made with belt loops.
#2: Cummerbund will hide belt.

With all of the sitting involved I would consider a cross draw OWB way before thinking about a shoulder rig. The shoulder rig will require your wearing a belt anyway.

You are doing good trying to think through the process before making purchases in the holster department. It wouldn't take more than a few folks that I know putting their unused holsters together in a pile to make a large mound of unused holsters instead of a large amount of cash.

HTH
 
HankL posted:
The shoulder rig will require your wearing a belt anyway
Click to expand...
Is that right? I never knew that. Like I said, I never really considered one for myself since I never wear a jacket, but I wouldn't have thought they required a belt. Is that to anchor the "dangling" hoslter part that the gun is in? Do they all work that way? Just curious.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk
 
Welcome to THR :)

I think the mental aspect of carrying is the hardest part to overcome. The first week or two I started carrying, I kept thinking that everyone was staring at me; I was waiting for someone to point and scream "GUN!" as SWAT rolls in and everyone ducks for cover. :p Just remember, the vast majority of the public are (unfortunately) well into "condition white," where they won't notice anything abnormal at a first cursory glance. I think if you're spotted by anyone, it'll probably be someone who carries as well, someone who knows what to look for, and in that particular case, it probably wouldn't be a big deal. A good belt and holster make all the difference in the world. And as mentioned before, don't fidget with your rig in public either! I'm a believer in "Don't ask, don't tell," so don't be too generous with other people in letting them know you're carrying a weapon.

-Quintin
 
Chicken ... somewhat depends on type of sho rig. Mike Irwin for instance when we shot other day - had his HK in a horizontal rig ... the type that is sorta balanced by mag pouch opposite side ...... now that (subject to correction) I am sure, has no belt loop, or even needs it. ... the whole deal is pretty stable ''as is''.

My Bianchi X-15 however .... is a front break for vertical carry .. I quite like it and find front break makes for quick draw. That tho like many verticals has a loop low down .... to wrap around belt ... and then fix back to rig with popper stud.

I always use that without fail ... keeps bottom of rig tucked in and - more important ... stops the whole deal from swingin out forwards if bending!! :p

This pic is Bianchi with P series on board .. can't see the loop but - it is on bottom side - the lower 2 inches or so.


p95_shorig_s.jpg
 
Lennyjoe:
The custom Kydex from my "friend of a friend" is only going to run me about 20 bucks for the Steyr. There are others that make the kydex for it, but AFAIK none that cheap. And money is an issue for me.

HankL:
My new tux is going to run about 500 USD with the double-breasted jacket. To get one taylored with belt-loops on the pants is out of my range.
Thanks for the post though, because I hadn't figured the tux/non-belt issue. You just saved me a bunch of cash :) I'll have to figure something else out. The belt underneath the q-cumber (or the pants) doesn't work so well because there is nothing to keep it from riding *WAY* too far up:eek:

I do spend more time than I would like in a tux, but it is still a minority. Hence, I have (or will soon, when the custom kydex comes in) a good, comfortable method of every day carry. And let's face it; even without an expensive holster, you could carry anything short of a .50 BMG in a roomy tux. The only question is comfort. For me, if it's a choice between safety and comfort, I choose safety every time.:)


-drew:
 
Another option you may want to look into is a Ken Null SMZ shoulder rig http://www.klnullholsters.com/. It`s super light and thin. You can even use it inder a heavy weight shirt or sweater AND it doesn`t require a belt,it has a HD suspender type clip. Marcus
 
Mac,

How-d to a fellow central-Texan CHL holder. If you're going to do the Kydex paddle thing and you're wanting something that's good for car and all that, you may want to consider one of the various models available that swivels and locks into place. That way you could carry straight up-and-down or slight cant crossdraw while walking around and then swivel it to where it's more in a horizontal line with your belt when sitting. This would be a great and versatile system for your needs I think.

brad cook
 
Just now saw this...

No, my shoulder holster doesn't have, and really doesn't need, an off-side tie down to keep the load balanced.

When I saw P95 carry I wasn't even toting a spare magazine in the carrier -- it was empty.

The major influence in keeping that hoslter stable and lined up (yes, it will slip over time) is the width and composition of the shoulder straps.

They're very wide as they go over the shoulders and across the back and they are a rough finish leather, so they grip very well.

I've carried my HK PSP, my 4" and 2.5" Model 19 revolvers, and an HK P7M13 on that shoulder rig (I have two identical, and do swap outs on the holsters as needed) and have not had problems keeping the guns stable and balanced.
 
Mike - completely forgot to ask you - either when you were here or in a post .... what manufacture is that rig?

I have not been over keen on horizontals but .... was impressed with that one .. in particular those very broad shoulder straps. Looks extraordinarily comfortable.

I wonder if that would hold a P series OK ... considering how chunky it is.
 
There you go! :)

Without the tie-down I still think the shoulder rig is a great option for someone who consistently wears a jacket.

If you've got a belt, then even with the tie-down.

That's holster-envy talking in my case, since I've never had the option (never wear a jacket). It just seems like it is the ultimate solution to all the comfort and accessibility questions we read about in so many threads.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk
 
I usually carry IWB but it is harder to draw from when driving than a shoulder rig like Galco's Miami Classic. The drawback to the shoulder rig for me is that I have to use a cover garment heavier than a shirt with the shoulder rig whereas a shirt works just fine to conceal my gun IWB. Where this becomes a problem is in warm weather or if I have to go indoors for any length of time the jacket can appear out of place and be too hot to wear.
 
Chris,

The shoulder straps are not marked as to a manufacturer, so I have no clue, but for some reason I have a feeling that it's a De Santis.

One of the holsters that fits it MAY be a Dillon Precision, one holster is a Don Hume, and one is a De Santis.

At least I think those are the holsters. I'll have to go look.


As for comfort, I've carried a P7M13 or a 4" S&W Model 19 for as long as 15 hours at a stretch with no shoulder fatigue.

The only problem I have with them is that my black leather coat, the one I wore to your place, if I don't take care while sitting down in my car, the lining of the coat will grab the shoulder straps and pull down on them. That's kind of uncomfortable.

The only problem is that in warmer months I can't wear the shoulder holster because I don't like to be warm.

That's when I switch to a pocket holster and my normal carry gun, my Model 042 S&W.
 
Thx for getting back on that Mike ...... so not really clear cut.

I am wondering perhaps where to start a search for something very like it ...... does rather appeal to me as another option in the holster armory! Those straps are what really seem to make it.

My Bianchi is good ... I do like it but - damned elastic strap that goes across behind my neck does have an irritating habit of trying to ride up a bit. Oh and - it creaks!! :p

Oh yeah .... warmer weather!! Well, much as I detest most about winter - from a carry POV it's a bonus ... but once very warm I am, like you, not comfortable with too much on. With the seasons it seems from a CCW POV - ''win some- lose some''!

Later
 
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