A flintlock question

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articap - you're the only person I've heard report that having happened. I can only echo the 'overfilled pan' comment, although even that seems unlikely to me. The flash is projected to the side of the gun by blowback from the vent hole. Perhaps the lock had a flash deflector (a device often used in matches to protect the person in the adjacent shooting position) in addition to an overfilled pan. That plus a poorly time lock, perhaps, or shooting into a strong wind. I don't know, that's just never been my experience.

MCgunner - when you get your gun there's a simple training exercise to acquire the ability to ignore the flash from the pan. Place a coin on the end of the barrel as far forward as you can. With no powder in the pan (or the bore) and leaving the frizzen open, raise the gun to your shoulder, sight, cock and fire it without dropping the coin. Once you can do this repeatedly the flash from the pan will become irrelevant.
 
Actually, Traditions offers 2 left hand flintlock models:

The 24" barrel Deer hunter and the 26" barrel PA Pellet which is their improved magnum flinter with a removable breechplug.

PA Pellet
R3790801-small.JPG

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=R3790801

The Sportman's Guide has the left handed PA Pellet listed in stock for $329 (Club Price: $296.97):

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/traditions-pa-pellet-flintlock-muzzleloader.aspx?a=264878

Additional detailed pictures of the breech plug here:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=WX2&i=106558

There's 2 reviews on Bass Pro:

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/s...1_89230_400003001_400000000_400003000_400-3-1
 
Hmm, pretty affordable. I like the twist rate for ball and perhaps the 250 grain REAL Lee mold I bought for my Hawken (1:24 twist) which is too light to work well in that gun. However, I doubt it'll be too good with sabots. My Hawken will shoot a 240 grain .44 sabot into 3" at 100 yards, but I prefer my own cast 360 grain Minies or the Hornady 385 gr bullet. You need that fast twist for sabots. I've tried sabots in my friends 1:48 Hawken and they weren't worth a toot. His gun is wonderfully accurate with patched round ball and mine ain't worth squat. That's sorta what I was wanting, a gun that'd shoot round ball and 1:48 should be fine for that. But, now, it's saying it will fire Pyrodex, not just loose powder, but pellets? Hmmmmm...... I'm sure it'll work with BP, though. Now, I have to save some money. I like the removable breech plug, too, BTW.



The magnum receiver accepts up to 150 grains of Pyrodex pellets or loose powder.

* Ignites Pyrodex Pellets
* 26" Octagonal performance barrel with 1 in 48" twist
* Removable breech plug system
* Shoots saboted bullets accurately
Click to expand...
 
The History Channel flinter shooters are bogus.. A bunch of white glove know nuthin's.. Total bunk!

I admitt getting a great laugh out of them and totally at their expence, and even my wife has a hard laff at them herself!

I was born lefty and can switch pretty easy, but my Bess and my Now West gun are righty guns and just recently have I come onto my first real lefty gun, and I am having some problems with that...

I guess i tend to load righty, and shoot lefty. Ny bag and horn hang on my right side, and i deal with these items as a Righty i guess.. This allows me to bear arms lefty pretty fast, and I have won shoots for speed where accuracy isn't the first meaningful thing to do, but the shots must hit the target just the same.... These are big targets, man size usually...

I can run off 6 and almost 7 live rounds in less than 2 minutes, and that is usually after running while doing other things.

Of course the Nor' West gun and the Bess are smoothies... and I know plenty of tricks.

My dainty little broom stick of a .40 cal (pea shooter) caintuckay long rifle will drive tacks, but i load it hard with 0.095 rb, and a silk patch because no cotton is thin enough...... yet.

In someways I fear that 40 because I am not a delicate sot...

I dare anyone any time to meet me at my home with any cap lock and a good clock and we will see who has a slow lock time. It can be pouring rain, snow, and wild wind and I won't care or call it off.

I can use a flinter to the fullest extent, and I mean it. It will start fire loaded with out using any powder or shot. It can be used to skin a deer and field dress that same deer with no knife. (don't ask how i know)


What I don't know is how the locks are on 'production' guns...

The Nor' Wester is one of Curley's, the Bess is a 1976 Japanese Bi-Centenial guns, and I call it Rock Crusher, but if fires 110% wet, in snow when it is snowing and just works fine...

Then I made a .60 pistol to share the same ball the Nor' Wester uses and it has my own lock based on a Siler, and heat treated by me... it works too..

Then the last is that dainty rifle and it has a unknown lock I can't ID, but I lean on Durrs Egg roller frizzen with a water proof pan. I got ot for trade silver.

That is my first ever any kind of gun as a real lefty gun.

You don't win shoots with yer eyes closed.....

I won a turkey shoot in upstate NY against all modern shotguns, and was disqualified since I was using the nor' West gun and real black powder..

Some how they made that all up after the fact, and said I was cheating.. LOL

I got slews of things I won, like a multitool which is a dandy rig of a button hole cutter, with a awl to celan the vent, which has a srew on worm to swab a bore, and has a little hammer all in one.

All sorts of colors in milk paint I won, because i can see and use both eyes no matter what I shoot... Throwing knives , some of my hawks, and other stuff..

Those fools on the tv are just that.... fools with white gloves...
 
Well, I started switching to lefty when I was 8 with my Benjamin. I had been trying since age 6 and suddenly realized what the problem was, my nearly blind right eye. Within a few weeks, I got along famously shooting left handed. My first .22, a bolt gun at age 9, M512X Remington that is still a tack driver, was a righty of course. I just learned to hold the rifle with my left hand on the grip part of the stock, elevated it a tad, and work the bolt. I got real fast at it. It's become natural to me to the point I don't really wanna try a left hand bolt. I could have gotten a left hand bolt when I bought my Savage 110 in 7mm rem mag, but I didn't think I could work it as well, awkward, old dog and new tricks thing. The one thing that does bug me lefty is shotguns with crossbolt safeties. I prefer a tang safety like my mossberg has. I've always been, since age 14, a waterfowl hunting nut. Shotguns are important to me. I like my side by sides, too, tang safeties.

When I got into the caplock, though, I figured that there'd probably be more crap in my face if I bought a righty and the lefty was available for a few more bucks. I just figure if I get a flinter, I'll keep it a lefty. I'm not real worried about fast reloads. I mean, if I don't hit the hog or the deer with the first shot, I ain't gonna need a second. I do have an ROA I can tote for backup and trailing wounded hogs. Oh, hell, I can just tote my .45 Colt (300 grain pill at 1120 fps) in case I have to blood trail a hog or something, but I never miss that bad.

Truth be told, though, I just want the flinter for fun. :D I think it'd be a hoot! But, if I get all into it, I WILL hunt with it. We don't have a BP season here, but that really don't matter to me. I hunt with handguns all the time and a flinter with round ball can shoot as far as any .357 Magnum, though my .30-30 Contender might have a little range on it. Can't see that far in the brush, anyway.

I can use a flinter to the fullest extent, and I mean it. It will start fire loaded with out using any powder or shot. It can be used to skin a deer and field dress that same deer with no knife. (don't ask how i know)
Click to expand...

Field dressing game, I'm guessing, the flint? :D I have hunting knives, though. The fire starting thing sounds like practical back up in the out back, kinda cool.

The Nor' Wester is one of Curley's, the Bess is a 1976 Japanese Bi-Centenial guns, and I call it Rock Crusher, but if fires 110% wet, in snow when it is snowing and just works fine...
Click to expand...

Well, we don't get much snow down here, so that's not a concern. I've seen it once in 30 years. LOL! But, it is interesting that a flint can be that weather resistant if not proof. I've always sorta wondered about that, too. Stands to reason, though, if you can seal up the frizzen some how where water can't get into the pan, it could be even better than a caplock.

Thanks for all the info! Wow, I'm learning a lot on this thread. I'm not really into the re-enactment thing or any lifestyle deals, just a hunter and shooter, but knowledge is a good thing. I bought that caplock in the early 90s and never really figured out how to properly feed and care for it until I got on the net. LOL! I burned a pound of powder trying to figure out why I couldn't hit with it until I finally figured out I was fowling the bore after three shots. :rolleyes: I would go out and fire the first round and not hit crap, scrub it, and it'd become accurate. Hmm. So, for years I didn't hunt with it because I didn't trust that first shot. Then, I find out I need to clean the bore butter out of the bore before loading. ROFLMAO! DUH. Makes me wonder how I ever got along without a computer. I mean, I don't know ANYone around there that is as heavily into BP as you guys here. I figured out my first cap and ball pretty easily by reading, but some of this stuff on flinters I've never come across in print. Thanks to Macmac and all very much for the discussion.
 
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From CT deer season, I've found that a piece of Saran-wrap/plastic wrapped loosely over my flintlock action works great for keeping snow and rain out - just have it loose enough that you can still cock, only one or two layers thick, so it holds onto itself. This way, if you need to get a shot off quick, without removing it, the action will work; you just need to hold your breath, cause burning plastic would make for a bad lung-full.

I've also seen people who reenact &/or take historicism more seriously than i do use a piece of buckskin as a lock-protector, but i imagine that wouldn't work as well since it is porous and spongy when wet.
 
Thanks arcticap, I knew there was another Traditions with a lefty lock. I have the PA pellet. Bought it mostly for the removable breech. I have no desire to actually use pellets. Holy black only.
 
I fixed it, but it was like gettingwater from a rock! :D

MCgunner, yes Sir I lost my knife and didn't know it. That was pre re-enactment for me and I had just one knife that day. Now I carry more. :eek:

Bolt guns like that .22. I pull the trigger lefty, and reach over to work the bolt in any possition not prone.

In Prone i work the bolt with my right hand which isn't doing anything anyway.

Shot guns thart have the safety tab on the top of the wrist like LC Smith and my Baker I think are lefty guns as is Sam Colts BP six guns which have gotta be lefty guns if you ask me.

I hold the gun in my left hand all the time. Load it that way and shoot it that same way. That's not lefty?

cross bolts safety like Ruger 10-22 I reach under the trigger guard with any finger not my index finger... being polite it is the longest finger..

With a flinter it isn't the rock that is burning it is the steel that is buring, and it will burn white hot wet. I do bee's wax the edges of the pan, to seal out water hunting, I may hold the lock under my coat, up my sleeve in a egyptian cotton frock also oiled, or rarely use a 'cow's knee' which is no more than a leather cover well oiled tied over the lock, but I tend to hate these.

Rain is worse than snow, but it sounds tuffer. LOL Once you get it down you can drop a flinter in a pond and leave it there awhile.

(disclaimer: be certain there is no water obstructing the bore, or you go boom)

Another trick for dueling, not that 'we' would get to use it is to add bee's wax over the prime to seal it off. This lets you fake the other guy into thinkiing your load is not going to fire.

It is rarer since most duels were fought with the 2nds over seeing the pistols loaded.

The time comes when a horseman and a man on the ground are dueling in a un-even match. You just pick these things up in 3 decades of messin about in BP.

I started just like anyone shooting as a lad in the 50's.. I got my first .22 at 6 years old and shortly after got knocked on my keyster shooting a 03, 30-06.

In my early 20's I went to BP, and messed with cap lock kits working backwards. I didn't know it, but it was a No Brainer that I would end up with some horrid flintlocks, but when the price is 35 bucko's you tend to know it ain't the gun.

About that time I got hurt bad, and it still hurts bad, like right now. That changed my life, and i found groups doing 'car camping' which was better than no camping, and fun, since they were sure dressed funny.

They had the habit to sit up late at night around a fire and tell enormouse lies, which i thought was fun too.

At that time I was no gray beard, but i guess I am now.

I move slow, Flinters sorta work slow, but then it get odd, since I am adept with them and anyone not becomes slower than I am, which then somehow makes me fast.

Weird huh?

Once I lived off the land for 1,095 days. More days really but I like the looks of that number. Did it in a tee pee and one winter was in NH USA.

Well once I took my bride to get new eye glasses and everyone got the munchies because they all thought we had come from a BBQ. Trying to explain we lived in a chimney just was to far out of normal. Just to weird.

All Hell breaks loose, and the last gun, or is it the first gun on my list is a flinter? You decide. :D
 
cross bolts safety like Ruger 10-22 I reach under the trigger guard with any finger not my index finger... being polite it is the longest finger..
Click to expand...

Well, I do it that way, but when you ain't got your finger on the safety and you catch a teal coming in before sun up at 20 feet off the ground haulin' butt, you ain't got a lot of time. I just find the tang safety is much faster and I can get on some of those birds in time with it. It's not a problem if I have time to get ready, but them teal can be nasty. :D

Yup, the old colt works better for a lefty, but I shoot 'em right handed and just use my left eye in a modified Weaver stance. I know, that ain't how Wild Bill shot, but it's how I shoot. :neener: :D
 
A question and answer from the "Traditions FAQ Page":

65. Can I put the improved PA Pellet lock on my older muzzleloader?

No, the new lock is not interchangeable with the old one.

http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/tips.asp#69
Click to expand...

1. Deeper priming pan, larger frizzen
2. Harder frizzen
3. Thunder Dome breech plug

A laminated stock with a nickel barrel, and double set triggers, available in left hand.
http://www.traditionsfirearms.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=R3810830
Click to expand...

It must really be a newly designed lock. :)
 
For you Flint lovers I got a can of BP from a friend . He said had it a while He quit shooting BP New 1lb 4F price written on can 4.95 been stored proper and has worked every time
 
Black Powder is the way to go. I've primed with everything from 4f to 2F. It works the 2 f will give you a slower lock time, When Flintlock Muskets were used in war they were primed from the same paper cartridge that the main charge came from. It works. 4f will give you a faster ignition time, but black powder being hydroscopic (it sucks water out of the air) in a damp enviroment it also will get wet faster. When I hunt with My Brown Bess I prime with 2f and have had no problems. With my .50 Tenn. Mountian rifle I prime with 3f or 4f powder due to the smaller lock. One last thing Powder horns were around long before 1797 they were more for civilian use. The military was all about voulme of fire and the powder horn ad measuring out each individual charge is not condusive to rapid fire. During the time of Matchlock muskets they even had wooden containers that held premeasured charges for the muskets called Apostals.

Andy
Legion Ville Historical Society
www.legionville.com
 
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