RockyMtnTactical
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Yeah, what's your point?
A new AR from an old company...
- Thread starter Outlaws
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Yeah, what's your point?
Outlaws
Member
I don't care how proprietary or unoriginal this ends up being. One more AR on the market is one more customer fan base that might be converted.
Cougfan2
Member
I don't own an AR right now but if all the critical parts on the R-15 don't interchange with the AR-15 I'm not interested.
Ditto. The beauty of AR's is the easy interchangeability of parts. It will be interesting to see how it is received if it has proprietary parts.
Ditto. The beauty of AR's is the easy interchangeability of parts. It will be interesting to see how it is received if it has proprietary parts.
2TransAms
Member
If this round is to take off then Remington really needs to push it as a viable hunting round because nobody else will. A camo R-15 in 6.8 may be just what they need to really get it going.
For better or worse,the AR chambered in anything other than .223/5.56 or .308 is going to have a small cut of the market. The 6.8 doesn't have the ballistics that that the long-range varmint shooters want,and most small-to-medium game hunters will stick with their bolt-actions.
Full Clip
Member
Unless Rem goes to .308, 6.8 or another "manly" round, hunters will not be impressed. And, as has been said, if it's not mil-spec, then I can't buy one -- I already have three ARs and will not buy an oddball.
atek3
Member
bragging about a better trigger could just mean they use a drop in unit like a JP or McCormick trigger, it doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the unit isn't milspec
atek3
atek3
jefnvk
Member
Seems to be marketed to varmit hunters, gathering it is chambered in 223 and 204. Those guys will eat it up.
Remember the same grumbling a few years back when turkey guns started to appear with actual pistol grips. Methinks in a few years, this will be a good seller.
Remember the same grumbling a few years back when turkey guns started to appear with actual pistol grips. Methinks in a few years, this will be a good seller.
Geronimo45
Member
Great news.
First it was 1911s being made by everybody, then polymer autos - and now, ARs and similar 'evil' rifles.
Look at Kel-Tec, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory, CZ USA (now importing the Czech take on the AK), and now Remington. More people than ever before seem to be making these kinds of guns. You wonder why ammo prices are up? Demand must be way up. I think the AWB was one of the best things that ever happened to the military-ish rifle market. It artificially gummed up supply, ensuing controversy fueled demand, and the sunsetting of the ban allowed things to go forwards in a bigger way than ever before. It got 'em recognition.
First it was 1911s being made by everybody, then polymer autos - and now, ARs and similar 'evil' rifles.
Look at Kel-Tec, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory, CZ USA (now importing the Czech take on the AK), and now Remington. More people than ever before seem to be making these kinds of guns. You wonder why ammo prices are up? Demand must be way up. I think the AWB was one of the best things that ever happened to the military-ish rifle market. It artificially gummed up supply, ensuing controversy fueled demand, and the sunsetting of the ban allowed things to go forwards in a bigger way than ever before. It got 'em recognition.
yesit'sloaded
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Remington making an AR look alike...I wonder if they will be sold at walmart along with all of the other Remingtons. I almost fainted when I went to Walmart yesterday and saw a Mossberg U/O that was about $800. I have looked at their catalog and you can actually get just about any "hunting" rifle from them.
ugaarguy
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I have a strong suspicion that these are mostly or all Bushmaster parts which are just assembled and finished at the Remington plant in NY. Either way the simple facts that they're camo and they're Remingtons will give them more credibility as hunting rifles. I'm all for it.
The cross branding makes quite a bit of sense from a competitive standpoint too. S&W buying T/C and introducing both the i-Bolt and Icon turn bolt hunting rifles was no doubt seen as a shot across their bow by Remington. The R-15 may be a hunting rifle now, but it shows that Cerberus could just as easily put rebadged Bushmasters on the Remington LE side (with all their existing shotgun and bolt rifle accounts) and directly compete with S&W's M&P 15s there.
I'll also make a not so bold prediction here - we're going to see Bushmaster making barrels with hardchromed bores, or getting Remington set up to do so, for the 700 PSS rifles. FN got a contract with the FBI because they built the SPR with a hardchromed bore which maintains the required accuracy standards with greater longevity. This came about by taking FN's experience making hardchromed barrels for their military small arms combined with Model 70 actions from their Winchester/USRAC subsidiary. Remington now has Bushmaster's experience, knowledge, and tooling at their disposal to make hardchromed bore barrels for their 700 actions. It could get really interesting.
I'd also not be surprised to see Bushmaster branded Remington 700s in long range target configurations as yet another cross branding strategy - this time tapping into the black rifle market with bolt guns.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Like it or not, the world has changed. That is what happens. If it never changed, we'd all be owning muzzle loaders and nothing else.
It is now a period of change toward the EBR types. Unfortunately, that shocks and bothers too many people in our society. It is our duty to make such things acceptable, normal and to eliminate any stigmas. In 20 years, it should be just as normal to own an AR-15 as it is to own an overunder.
There's been a huge boom in AR-15 sales. Bizarrely, the AWB didn't prevent anyone from buying them, but it had some sort of negative effect I suppose. Yes, no collapsing stock, no 30rd mags, no flash hiders or threaded muzzles. It was terrible, but the basic rifle was there. Yet, since 2003-2004, wow! Has this market erupted! I'm sure uncertainly plays into it also. 9/11 (not terrorists, but terrorist strike causing SHTF), Katrina etc....also the constant fear-mongering on the news about kidnappings, rapes, murders, riots etc...The 1980's were bad about that, the 1990's was worse...but there's been a huge leap in the politics of fear and media negativity in the 2000's. The accessories market has grown like crazy too. There's now a plethora of options. 100 mounts to choose from, 100 stocks....
Anyhow, everyone wants in on this gravy train. When you see many of the "old guard" companies like S&W and Remington going to that, you know there's been a huge shift in consumer demand and there's a shift in perception. It is undeniable.
This is good for us, because the old-school companies now have an INTEREST in defending these types of firearms. Whereas, during 1989 and even 1994 - they weren't exactly exerting themselves to help. Especially 1989, where the manufacturers themselves benefit from the ban of cheap, but good quality Chinese auto loaders, and also from the ban of high quality European military-style auto loaders. Some people don't like to hear it, but in some of our gun control, there has been industry protectionism also working against us.
I hope they also improve the world of the AR-15. In this case, I like the big guys better than the little guys. The big guys are capable of a lot more quality control than the little guys, and can offer more at a lower price. The AR-15 world has been full of way too much junk for a long time. Fact is, the majority of rifles in the past were sub-par. Now, more and more quality makes and parts are filling the market. This will make the AR-15 more appealing as reputation will improve. Some of the older AR-15 makers are also improving their parts, sourcing better parts from mil contractors. If you go back just 10 years, the best AR you could get, and still to this day is the best, is the Colt and second the Bushmaster. After that, there wasn't much at all of quality. Today, there are many good choices.
This is also in part to the internet. With broadband becoming the norm and the growth of the web with forums and people feeling comfortable reading them and posting, education has increased. Consumers are no longer just buying off the shelf and assuming that Frankenstein-AR is good. A larger percentage of people are demanding certain features and quality. Still, the majority is clueless, but it's getting better.
Finally, when S&W and Remington, who have a name that the whole Zumbo/Hunter types respect, start making AR-15's...those people will start to take a different look at them. Sadly, they were almost as bad as the gun controllers and almost an enemy of the RKBA movement for a long time, so hopefully, when a company like Remington starts doing it they will open their minds a little more.
Ruger can go to ****! They will never do it, and as a result they will fall behind. Every future gun owner who is a teenager today is surfing the web and lusting for an AR-15 (or AK) ...not some lame Mini-14. Evolve or go extinct!
It is now a period of change toward the EBR types. Unfortunately, that shocks and bothers too many people in our society. It is our duty to make such things acceptable, normal and to eliminate any stigmas. In 20 years, it should be just as normal to own an AR-15 as it is to own an overunder.
There's been a huge boom in AR-15 sales. Bizarrely, the AWB didn't prevent anyone from buying them, but it had some sort of negative effect I suppose. Yes, no collapsing stock, no 30rd mags, no flash hiders or threaded muzzles. It was terrible, but the basic rifle was there. Yet, since 2003-2004, wow! Has this market erupted! I'm sure uncertainly plays into it also. 9/11 (not terrorists, but terrorist strike causing SHTF), Katrina etc....also the constant fear-mongering on the news about kidnappings, rapes, murders, riots etc...The 1980's were bad about that, the 1990's was worse...but there's been a huge leap in the politics of fear and media negativity in the 2000's. The accessories market has grown like crazy too. There's now a plethora of options. 100 mounts to choose from, 100 stocks....
Anyhow, everyone wants in on this gravy train. When you see many of the "old guard" companies like S&W and Remington going to that, you know there's been a huge shift in consumer demand and there's a shift in perception. It is undeniable.
This is good for us, because the old-school companies now have an INTEREST in defending these types of firearms. Whereas, during 1989 and even 1994 - they weren't exactly exerting themselves to help. Especially 1989, where the manufacturers themselves benefit from the ban of cheap, but good quality Chinese auto loaders, and also from the ban of high quality European military-style auto loaders. Some people don't like to hear it, but in some of our gun control, there has been industry protectionism also working against us.
I hope they also improve the world of the AR-15. In this case, I like the big guys better than the little guys. The big guys are capable of a lot more quality control than the little guys, and can offer more at a lower price. The AR-15 world has been full of way too much junk for a long time. Fact is, the majority of rifles in the past were sub-par. Now, more and more quality makes and parts are filling the market. This will make the AR-15 more appealing as reputation will improve. Some of the older AR-15 makers are also improving their parts, sourcing better parts from mil contractors. If you go back just 10 years, the best AR you could get, and still to this day is the best, is the Colt and second the Bushmaster. After that, there wasn't much at all of quality. Today, there are many good choices.
This is also in part to the internet. With broadband becoming the norm and the growth of the web with forums and people feeling comfortable reading them and posting, education has increased. Consumers are no longer just buying off the shelf and assuming that Frankenstein-AR is good. A larger percentage of people are demanding certain features and quality. Still, the majority is clueless, but it's getting better.
Finally, when S&W and Remington, who have a name that the whole Zumbo/Hunter types respect, start making AR-15's...those people will start to take a different look at them. Sadly, they were almost as bad as the gun controllers and almost an enemy of the RKBA movement for a long time, so hopefully, when a company like Remington starts doing it they will open their minds a little more.
Ruger can go to ****! They will never do it, and as a result they will fall behind. Every future gun owner who is a teenager today is surfing the web and lusting for an AR-15 (or AK) ...not some lame Mini-14. Evolve or go extinct!
My eyes were opened to the usefulness of the AR for hunting after I put a few Hornady 75 grain rounds into 4 and 5 inch groups at two hundred yards with open sights. My AR is now my back up deer gun and I just may use it as my primary this season.
cracked butt
Member
I belong to a few hunting bulletin boards and have noticed that a lot of traditional hunters have started buying ARs for for everything from varmint hunting to big bores for big game hunting and even carbines just for fun. The most common type on those boards that won't own one are in their 50s-60s, but younger guys (and Ladies) seem to really embrace them. Might be younger people are more likely to embrace new technology, don't have a preconceived stigma towards the AR-15, or have more disposable income than earlier generations.
I personally never 'needed' an Ar-15 for anything, but I love mine, and will more than likely be upgrading to a caliber that starts with a '4' for deer hunting.
Max Velocity
Member
Who's Next?
A positive move for Remington. Probably will cause a lot of traditional Remington customers to take a serious look at the AR platform. Remington most likely has plans to sell black rifles to their law enforcement customers.
Can Ruger be far behind? Wouldn't be too surprising to see to see Ruger AR's (SR-15?) at the 2008 Shot Show, if not before.
A positive move for Remington. Probably will cause a lot of traditional Remington customers to take a serious look at the AR platform. Remington most likely has plans to sell black rifles to their law enforcement customers.
Can Ruger be far behind? Wouldn't be too surprising to see to see Ruger AR's (SR-15?) at the 2008 Shot Show, if not before.
Maybe if some of the hunters start buying these ARs, when Congress goes to ban them, we might actually get some help from the segment of the hunting crowd that never cares about anti-gun legislation because no one has come for their 870 slug guns yet.
I imagine the boneheads that run Bass Pro Shops will up burning the midnight oil and sweating over whether to carry this gun on the shelves at their stores.
I imagine the boneheads that run Bass Pro Shops will up burning the midnight oil and sweating over whether to carry this gun on the shelves at their stores.
RockyMtnTactical
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No, not for varminters, I agree. But pushing to sell it in 6.8 as well (not instead of .223) would be great for deer hunters I would guess... I know plenty of guys who take whitetail with .223. Making these in 6.8 would open up that market because some states won't allow you to hunt deer with a .223.
I am not a big 6.8 guy (unless the military picked it up as their standard round, which is more than unlikely), but if I were to get one, I think I would get one for deer hunting.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Considering that Ruger just brought out a new Mini-14 in an effort to justify the ridiculous MSRP for the Mini-14, I don't see it myself. Who knows though? If it wasn't for the California market, I doubt Ruger would sell as much as they do of the Mini-14. They may eventually decide that being on the wagon is better than being run over by it.
I'm guessing that with Remington's distribution network, we are going to see more EBRs available regardless.
cracked butt
Member
Gander Mountain didn't carry EBRs until Sportsman's Warehouse stores started popping up all over the place and do carry them.
George Hill
Member
All the parts will fit because they are all Bushmaster parts shipped from Bushmaster to Remington so Remington can stamp them. Don't think for a second that the company that owns both would allow one to be a direct competitor of the other... both companies would have to benefit from the deal or there would be no deal.
What I would really like to see is a version chambered for .260, 7MM-08, .243, and .308... and make them more than just varmint guns.
What I would really like to see is a version chambered for .260, 7MM-08, .243, and .308... and make them more than just varmint guns.
vanfunk
Member
Big +1 on this statement.
I, too, hope that this helps Bushmaster improve their QC. I haven't bought a Bushmaster in 5 years that hasn't needed a return trip to Windham for proper (re)-assembly.
vanfunk
MT GUNNY
Member
I really like the camo, but I already have 2 in .223.
I think its a great thing that Rem gets in the game I just hope they
make one in a .308 so I can hunt big game with a not so Evil (Black) Rifle
I think its a great thing that Rem gets in the game I just hope they
make one in a .308 so I can hunt big game with a not so Evil (Black) Rifle
Outlaws
Member
About the posts noting Remington might market these to LE, after seeing the Cobb MCR300, I can say I wouldn't doubt that all. I think Cerberus has big plans for these three companies.
Introducing the AR as a camo hunting rifle first will help the transition when it inevitably goes black, as shown by their willingness to offer black tactical shotguns. But if Remington comes out with a real high power semi auto hunting rifle in something like 30-06 or .300 WIN in the MCR platform, it won't be anywhere near as much of a shell shock to fudds since the AR is already fairly common place, and that would just be a super sized AR in a trophy hunter friendly caliber.
I was watching this video of the MCR300 and they said it is being introduced first in 30-06. I wonder if this decision was before or after Cobb, Remington, and Bushmaster were acquired by Cerberus. 30-06 is an interesting choice for a black rifle given that it has, for all intended purposes, be relegated to a hunting cartridge for a good while.
Introducing the AR as a camo hunting rifle first will help the transition when it inevitably goes black, as shown by their willingness to offer black tactical shotguns. But if Remington comes out with a real high power semi auto hunting rifle in something like 30-06 or .300 WIN in the MCR platform, it won't be anywhere near as much of a shell shock to fudds since the AR is already fairly common place, and that would just be a super sized AR in a trophy hunter friendly caliber.
I was watching this video of the MCR300 and they said it is being introduced first in 30-06. I wonder if this decision was before or after Cobb, Remington, and Bushmaster were acquired by Cerberus. 30-06 is an interesting choice for a black rifle given that it has, for all intended purposes, be relegated to a hunting cartridge for a good while.
MachIVshooter
Member
Wal-Mart or otherwise, still FFL01 and still able to get anything from their distributors or factory direct.
To the original topic, I kinda like the idea of a Remington-made (sounds like it's NOT just a re-badged Bushy) AR. I've been a Remington owner since the very day I turned 18, and have never had an issue with their products.
ugaarguy
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If I remember correctly Bushmaster did tool and build some .308/7.62 NATO ARs, didn't get the gov't contract or contracts they hoped for, didn't have good public sales with them, and sold the tooling to Rick River.
The 6.8 SPC is more than a varmint caliber though. It's got better ballistics on paper than the 7.62x39, and the x39 is very similar ballistics wise to the .30-30. Last I checked the .30-30 has taken plenty of deer and a good share of hogs. The 6.8 will also work in the 5.56 length mags and mag wells as we all know. Bushmaster also bought Olympic just before or after Cerberus bought them. Keep in mind that Oly has made uppers chambered for the WSSM cartridges that utilize 5.56 mags in single stack configuration. Speaking of big cases single column in 5.56 AR mags don't forget about the Bushmaster/Hornady co-developed .450 Bushmaster.
There are alternatives to the .223, even if they aren't the alternatives we'd most like.
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