A note on dogs

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I would say that children and dosg that do not know the kids could, might, maybe a bad situation.

But like everything in life, you have major problem with generalizations. I have found that the larger dog are usually the better dogs to have around small children as they tend to be more tolerant and better able to get away from small terrors bent on dragging the around by the tail. Little dogs tend to be more likely to bite, and that is also from the owner who is less likely to take a yappy biting little dog as a serious of a problem as say 120lb pit bull. 2 meanest dogs I ever owned were both less than 30lbs, and every dog under 10 lbs I owned would bite anyone who startled them.
 
Whenever I'm asked if my dogs bite, my standard reply has always been:

All dogs will bite. It mostly depends on which buttons get pushed, and the buttons vary as much as each dog's personality. They're as individual as we are.

If a dog is well-socialized and used to different people coming and going...not abused/fear-aggressive...anybody who gets nipped or bitten has usually done something to cause it, or contribute to it. Most of the time, it's someone who the dog isn't famliar with who has failed to recognize the dog's personal space. The dog will let you know when it's okay to enter if you know what to look for...the same as letting you know that you need to maintain a respectful distance unless and until it's okay to approach. Most people don't know the signs, and will approach a strange dog without a thought.

Few dog bites are true attacks. Even fewer lead to all-out attacks. Most bites are warnings. Dogs bite one another to let the offender know that he is violating the pack protocol. These can range from anything to a firm snap on the back or side of the neck, to a fairly vicious affair...depending on how well the offender is being accepted, and what his offense is.

I'm a non breed specific rescuer. I've been bitten. I knew immediately that I'd done something to precipitate it, and didn't hold it against the dog. Most often, after the bites, many of the the dogs seemed to be apologetic and acted like they wanted to buy me a cold one and forget the whole thing. One dog that bit me twice in one day eventually became my best bud whenever I'd go to his family's house to visit.

I believe that there are very few truly bad ones. I love dogs and love working with'em. I especially love seeing an abused dog come around...and there are very few that won't, given enough time, patience and a gentle hand. I don't kid myself about dogs though. They have well-defined boundaries that we need to be aware of, and how to read the dogs' sign language.
 
my oldest said her dogs name before mommy and daddy. and she can still scratch behind her ear with her foot and shes 8
 
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I can say treat you dog right here a picture of my Rotty 130 lbs I had to put down last Wed: I had rock for 11 1/2 years broke my heart me and the wife.The dog was smart as a whip.I did keep a eye on him with he grand kids,he was never raised with children but he had a excellent personality.I know rotty have a bad rap but make him aggressive and you have a time bomb on your hands.He knows when to get aggressive if needed.
I never raised my hand to him I had him since 8 weeks old always used hand controls and did socialized him with people.My vet always said he was a excellent dog and was raised the right way :My vet was surprised he listen to my hand control and never neededto be muzzeled when the Dr. work on him:he will be missed he did have the run of the house and no one who did not no him would not get close to him ,but he wasa gentle bear.I say it again how you rasie your dog and how much time you put into him will be the results what type of dog he turns out to be.
 
one thing i learned was trust my mutts as judges of charactor. if my normally docile dog didn't like someone neither did i. it paid off several times
 
I like dogs, currently a Rat Terrier, previously a Schutzhund 3, Obedience-Trial-Competition German Shepherd (wife did it, I didn't). That said...

I sure would hate to run into a "mean" Pit Bull, since the ones that rip children's faces off are always represented by the owner on TV news as "the sweetest dog we ever had and never hurt a flea"...

Les
 
Dogs are wonderful critters.

But I think many folks underestimate the amount of attention they require. They're high maintenance, especially the first couple of years. Neglected, untrained dogs are sometimes big trouble.
 
Perhaps it is good that a dog's lifespan is so short compared to our own; any longer and the grief of losing one would be too much to bear.
 
Best all around house dog? English Mastiff. Thinks kids are the greatest thing in world,thinks strangers need looking at, thinks strange noises or knocks on the door after dark a reason to go to DEFCON5 and have the size to back all this up.

By the way Buster is 3yrs. old and weights 230.
 
My brother in law has one and unless he drowned you in drool or sat on you he would never hurt you.^^
 
Lee your right about some old breeds mine is a long hair from Belgium. Most timed one I've owned but as you know when a dog witmesses an unkown event without the owners there they still get froggy. I worked with trained cannines. There's nothing worse than getting hit by one in the dark and I have. Probably like a shark takes its victims. No noise no compasion.




Jim
 
I personally find the goal of having the family dog turn to Cujo instantly when a bad guy approaches to be slightly unrealistic but amusing.

The average dog will get rather loud...and that's enough to give you a head's up on what's going on. IMO the worst thing once can do if they get a dog for defense is to try to stop all barking issues. Instead "normal" noises should be drilled into him as normal and no cause for his alarm. There's good barks, bad barks, and barks to alert you. The key is making sure your pooch knows which is which.

Dogs are very smart creatures...at least compared to what most people think they are capable of. Hey, it's hard to seem smart when you lack opposable thumbs, and speak in loud noises. :p
 
I believe most dogs have a protective instinct that becomes bolder when the owner is close. I don't depend on a dog to nuetralize the issue but 9 times out of ten they will.




jim
 
I personally find the goal of having the family dog turn to Cujo instantly when a bad guy approaches to be slightly unrealistic but amusing.
mustang_steve
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LMAO !!!

Well Steve I don't know about it being a "Goal" or having one turn into CUJO that was nothing more than a hollywood horror fantasy dog who would have died of rabies in real life long before he could have attacked as many as he did .

But I seriously hope you don't have any plans for testing your theory out by taking up burglary as a hobby or you may quickly enter the wrong home and find just how wrong you are sir and it wont be the slightest bit amusing to you when you do .

Put the family pet in a situation where they feel their territory or "Pack" is being threatened and you may find yourself fighting for your life with even a small as 20 LB demon with enough energy to make the Energizer Bunny drool with envy that to quote a line from the movie Tombstone "Tell em I'm Coming and Hells coming with Me !" .

I have in my almost 50 years seen our pets Protect their property and themselves for other dogs and the results of protecting our family from a criminal that broke in in the middle of the night .

The scene after the break in was just short of some horror story writers dream with torn and bloody clothing leading all the way from the room" which was actually our back Screen/Sun porch" he broke into by cutting a screen , to the fence he jumped trying to escape the dog and he was armed with a switch blade knife that we found on the floor in the house and he never inflicted the slightest wound to the dog despite him being covered in blood all of which was the burglars .

Just an FYI for you , a trained attack dog " example a Police K9 " will probably grab hold of an arm or a leg or even both or all four one at a time of course and their attack is controlled and intended to simply neutralize the threat until their handlers take control of the situation due to their years of training and even breeding , but a Naturally protective family dog has no such disciplined training and will attack purely out of their instinct from eons of evolution of hunting and fighting for survival and if given an opening may very well rip out the throat of what it sees as a threat to their life and or lives of their "Family" .

Underestimating a family pet is like thinking that the animals at the zoo in their cages are "Tame" and safe to pet , it may very well be the last mistake you ever make !
 
Lee, do those Filas live up to their reputation of "ojeriza," sharp aversion to strangers? I am intrigued by this reputation, because I WOULD like to have a dog that presented a threat to unknown strangers in my house but was a good "family dog." I have seen footage of a supposedly untrained 1 yr old Fila behaving very aggressively toward a decoy. Apparently they will bite a sleeve but prefer to bite bare skin! Pure defense drive, very little prey. If you have a reputable source of this kind of dog, please PM me or reply in-thread.

conwict,

Ojeriza is the defining characteristic of Filas IMHO. They are suspicious of anyone they don't know- which means anyone who doesn't live with them or visit often. It's easiest to get to know Filas as puppies- anyone within the dog's 'circle' as a puppy will be happily accepted for the rest of the dog's life, if they keep up the acquaintance. Filas have elephant-like memories- if they like you they don't forget you. And if they DON'T like someone they generally won't forget that, either.

No matter what the breed, there are individuals that fall on the extremes of whatever bell curve you're looking at. With Filas, the temperament bell curve can run from very hard on one end to almost none on the other. As is usually the case, the majority of the population falls somewhere in the middle. And as far as I can tell, temperament in Filas is genetic- it's nature, not nurture.

Any Fila breeder who respects the breed properly is going to breed for proper temperament as well as sound physical confirmation and proper 'type.' Those things are all critical to having a good sound Fila. One thing to know is that Filas are #15 on the OFA list for hip dysplasia, and a certain degree of that is genetic as well- good breeders try to only breed sound stock, but genetics is a roll of the dice no matter how careful a breeder tries to be.

The odds of getting a good Fila are a lot better if the puppy comes from good physically sound stock with proper temperaments. Good breeders will guarantee their puppies for physical soundness and proper temperament, and will stand by that guarantee.

Proper Filas don't need to be attack trained, nor do they need bite work. They will protect from pure instinct, and I have seen them begin to show protective instincts as young as two to three months. Most will not come into their proper temperament until they are about eight months up to a year old however. That's often the point where people who didn't do enough homework before getting a Fila puppy panic when the dog takes out the storm door going after the mailman or has a fit when dear old Aunt Mildred that you haven't seen in four years comes to visit for the first time. Unfortunately for those dogs, they often have to be re-homed at that point- a wrenching experience for a Fila, one that no person of conscience would ever inflict on such a dog.

I have had dogs all my life. So has my DW. Neither of us have ever seen a breed that gets so attached to its people. Filas love you like no other breed. And they will literally die to protect you. And they will die if you don't love them back, literally. Filas are not meant to be 'yard dogs.' They are meant to be part of the family.

For anyone who thinks they want a Fila- do your homework! This is a major decision, not one to be taken lightly or based on misconceptions. Know what you are getting into. Talk to breeders. Explore the breed association websites. Read the available literature. Go to ARBA/FBA/FBCA shows. Go to 'working weekends.' Meet people who are owned by Filas and talk to them. Watch temperament tests and high-in-trials so you can see these dogs at work.

http://www.arba.org/

http://www.arba.org/FilaBS.htm

http://www.filabrasilassn.com/

http://www.thefbca.com/

http://www.fila-brasileiro.org/


hth,

lpl
 
In Cape Town we had two beautiful Dobermans...they are great family dogs, and contrary to popular belief, great with kids. When there's a squatter camp down the road and no weapons available, two dobies in the front yard is a great deterrent. They would faithfully bark, and if you hear something go bump in the night, let one of them out (they slept in the bedrooms with us) and they will search the house, and they'll smell or hear a BG long before you see him.

Turbo, our younger one, went after a prowler one night we heard come over our fence here in the states, ironically enough (not in SA, which has third highest murder rate in the world). A potentially violent situation was diffused when the BG beat it over the fence when he saw the barking doberman streak across the yard at him.

There are many dogs that are great watchdogs/protectors that are great with your family, but if you haven't got the time for it, as many others have posted, don't get a big dog. They need time, love, and exercise.
 
LoneWolf - Sorry for your loss. I had to put down my 13yo German Shepherd almost 2 years ago. I had him since a pup and he was with me from age 21 to 34, a wonderful companion. He would always place himself between me and the entrance to the room, refused to use a dog bed. It does slowly get better, but I still feel a part of me is missing. I'm expecting a new Shepherd puppy in just over two weeks and I can't wait for doggy smiles again!

Larry mentioned the book "Merle's Door". It is truly a must-read for dog lovers!
 
Good post.

My son (5 years old) and I were harrassed by a pit bull this last weekend when out kayaking. It was the owners, who were typical :cuss::cuss::cuss:

I love dogs, but I don't think most dog owners realize that most people are very apprehensive of their dogs, particularly around childern, when we don't know the behavior of the dog. The dog could be an angel or a biter, we just don't know. Most owners act like it is no big deal but they do not appreciate the other person's perspetive of not knowing the dog. I have see kids get bit twice at a park, one requiring stitches, and it has made me more aware.
 
3pairs12, you may have an exceptional 7 or 8 year old...but I honestly think *most* dogs over say 60lb should not ever be left alone with kids that age or especially younger.
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I do not think it is size so much as temperament. Some dogs are not especially good around children because the erratic nature of the way children act makes the dog nervous. Other dogs are more mellow and tolerate a lot of nonsense from children (like tail pulling or trying to ride the dog).

Its a bad idea to leave any child unsupervised in any case, dog or otherwise.

As for the rescue dog versus the breeder argument, there are people who care that the dog has papers and people who just like dogs. I am of the latter persuasion. I have been around a lot of dogs in my time and have found purebred dogs to have every bit as many behavioral problems as your basic mutt from the pound.

Personally, I am fond of beagles. They make great pets. They are a whole lot smarter than people give them credit for because they are not real easy to teach tricks to. Most of the time, they end up teaching you to do tricks for them. I am on my 4th beagle. Only one had papers. Ironically, she was the only of the bunch that had problems (fits).
 
I think small kids should never be around a dog until they show enough resonsibility to understand the dogs mood. I've seen kids pull ears and tails until even the most docile will bite out in self defense. Just enough supervision that you can tell they are not picking on the dog but playing.

I have a 130 lb German Shepherd what is fairly friendly though watchful. I was selling a Ski Doo to a man and he had 3 little kids. We both lost track of kids and dogs. I looked down the drive way and the girl around 10 was laying over the dogs back while the other two were holding onto his tail. We stopped it but the dog did not seem to mind (I think most dogs do). Two weeks latter he went off on a friend of mine over playing two hard. If people can't control their emotions how can dogs. Just be careful.


Jim
 
I've seen kids pull ears and tails until even the most docile will bite out in self defense.
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+1

I think that the majority of dog "bites" are caused by kids demeaning / hurting the animal and the animal reacting as it would when another dog did that.

I think dogs need supervision especially when not around "the pack" the family that is always with it. I know young kids that are not bad kids, but are sadistic in that sort of kid way, I know several adults that are that way too. Some folks I have noticed have machismo even with dogs and have this almost pathological need to "put the dog in it's place". I do not let my dog run around unsupervised at the 4th of July and like events. I trained him to come to me / stop / sit / stay / down with snaps and hand signals. So when I don't see him, I snap and he comes. I motion and he sits / stays or whatever.
 
We had our dogs trianed for verbal and silent command. Mine knew when it was time to come. Not doing this proffessionaly now I don't teach the "get em command.



Jim
 
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