A note on dogs

[Camjr]

With kids, I've always gone with herding dogs. They've always treated my kids (now 11 and 13) as their flock, and have been completely different around other people and dogs when the kids are around. Not aggressive, but much more vigilant. I know what would happen if my kids were in harm's way and any of the dogs in my family were around. I put my Australian Shepherd (a big 80 pound male) down after 13 years in March 2008 due to severe arthritis, and have an 18 month old German Shepherd rescue that came along at just the right time. He's been with us since he was pulled out of a box thrown in a lake by some meth-head in East Texas when he was about 10 weeks old. As one of the earlier posters said, just his presence makes others think twice about committing nefarious deeds. Nobody gets within 3-4 houses of me in my suburban neighborhood without him being alerted, day or night.

I bird hunt, but have chosen to keep herding dogs in my family instead of hunting dogs. I'll leave that to my friends.

Great thread.

Cheers!

 

[trol79]

I had a dog , he was my best friend. One evening I and another friend of me were entereing my home thru the backdoor(it was late). and the dog came thinking we were intruders; growling and with a look in his eyes that made me think of "the tousand yard stare". I`ve never ever seen a dog that scaring! but after he had seen who it was & ihad told him to calm down he did so. also he got a big "good dog + a little reward from me. I not only miss a dog or the protector of my family, I miss my best friend because we had that thing that is called nonverbal communication.

 

[conw]

gripper, nothing against pits or pit owners in general. My point was that if you own a pit, lowlifes will approach you. Whereas if you own a German Shepherd for example, they might be deterred. In my experience anyway.

1911tuner, I totally agree. I don't think hitting is ever a good idea, for two reasons. One, I think you make the dog "hand shy" which, aside from making you look like a dog abuser when it shrinks from peoples' hands, can actually make aggression worse and doesn't really teach it anything unless you hit it every time it does something wrong.

That's why if I'm doing some serious training with a major problem I won't hesitate to use a harsh leash correction: the dog needs to learn a RULE is CONSISTENT. I can and do consistently apply leash corrections when necessary, but would rather not make a habit of hitting my dog, so why do it at all? If you hit your dog only when YOU are mad, he learns you're a loose cannon, and probably doesn't even associate being hit with what he was doing. Second, it's simply ineffective compared to a good leash correction or in extreme cases the "alpha roll."

Unfortunately I see a lot of people hit their dogs when the dog humps, or growls inappropriately, or (worst of all) when they call it and it doesn't come.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Great info on Dogs I grew up with those Critters and I know everyone I have had is Way Smarter than you would ever think.

 

[kdstrick]

There is no such thing as a bad dog.... only a bad owner. A dog must know that it is subordinate to all humans. Subordination contributes greatly to the dog's happiness. If they think they are in charge, they are very nervous and cannot relax. I'm sure we have all seen dogs like that... they are a bit schizophrenic.

I highly recommend the Wolter's books like Gun Dog, and Game Dog. They are fantastic books.

I've had labs and Goldens and highly recommend them. They are extremely intelligent and great with children.

The more time you spend with your dog, the "smarter" it will be. They only want to please you.

 

[giddonah]

A busy house with strangers and kids isn’t the best place for a Cane Corso.

A friend of mine bred them for a bit. I saw one female sit on the floor while a 4 year old girl sat on her and poked her in the face. The dog just looked at me in desperation and did nothing to the girl.

Some breeds have reputations for a reason, but there are almost always exceptions.

 

[conw]

A Cane Corso I met was fairly dog aggressive and the owner claimed it was fine with kids. I am skeptical of this since dogs don't necessarily see the difference between kids and other dogs the way we do. This was just one dog though.

 

[1911Tuner]

conwict...Sounds to me like you speak fluent dog. I use leash corrections for a time, then move to alpha rolls and finger "bite" corrections that I learned from watching mother dogs and pups. Dogs use quick nips and bites on the backs of necks to correct other dogs who get a little too out of control. You can learn a lot about correcting bad behavior in dogs by simply watching...other dogs.

Deltaboy...Dogs are a lot smarter and more aware of things that most people give'em credit for. I hear anyone call a dog a "Dumb Animal" my response is that they've never lived with one...and the only real way to start to understand their true intelligence, and appreciate it is to have'em in multiples.

One of the gentlest dogs I've ever seen was a Cane Corso...and the one that made me the most nervous was a Golden Retriever...abused and so fear aggressive that the dog went into attack mode if anyone even looked at her.

I've currently got a pure white Siberian...a rescue. A beautiful, sweet female who is hand shy to the point that if I reach to stroke her head, she spins in a circle and rolls onto her back. If she approaches me...she's not as fearful. If I initiate contact...she immediately tucks and rolls. After almost 2 years, she's getting much better...but still doesn't trust completely. Such a beautiful dog. Such a cryin' shame.

For those who don't know...I'm a rescuer. I've got 16 here...10 of which are rescued. I'm in the dog bidness, pardner.

 

[SSN Vet]

Our family just got our first dog, a male Golden Retriever, back in Feb. (neither wife or I have experience with dogs). He's a family pet and not a work/security dog, and I often joke that if a robber breaks into the house, he risks being licked to death.... and will certainly get loaded down with all the tennis balls and bones that Skipper brings them.

He's such a mischievous and playful goof ball, that our girls think we should have named him Gilligan, instead of Skipper.

6. In most breeds the protective instinct dozen’t develop until 10 or so months old.

Skipper is 9 mos. old and just last week, when my wife walked him down to the bus stop to meet/greet the kiddies, he showed his first indications of a protective instinct. He got very antsy when the bus pulled up and started to grumble (closest thing to a growl we've heard from him) when the kids got off, until my two daughters came into sight, when he transitioned to "happy, happy, let's play"...

This pooch is pretty darn spoiled and gets showered with love.... we did puppy kindergarten with him and should probably do more... but his "job" is to be a happy companion and pet ...

My job is to take care of and "protect" him... not the other way around

 

[conw]

Thanks 1911tuner. I actually adopted my pup in the interim since I paid you a visit. If I visit again (is it cool enough yet to go to your range?) I will have to bring him - he's very well socialized. BTW, have you tried Canidae food? My parents (who have 3 dogs) switched to it from Purina and much prefer it...my dog won't eat it so I am with something really expensive. Canidae is about a buck a pound. I'm guessing you probably feed around 5-7 pounds a day...that's worse than ammo costs!

What 1911tuner said reminded me of an interesting point. If you get a dog before it's been with the mother 6-8 weeks, you must apply these hand nip corrections in order to teach it the rules. It will not possess bite inhibition to the same degree as a well-taught pup who has been with the mother during the critical first 6-8 weeks. What you do is, if the dog bites you harder than it ought to, say OW! and bite it with your hand on the shoulder/side. This is what the mother does if a playing puppy bites or nips too hard, and it's a life lesson for dogs. I am willing to bet some dogs that hurt people by accident were puppies who were purchased too early for their own good and never learned bite inhibition.

 

[1911Tuner]

Cool enough for a range trip early in the AM. Time for me to limber up a couple single-action thumb busters and go for a refresher. Say when. If you can be here by 0730, we'll bust a few plates.

Never tried the dog food. I'm in deep with Purina and the checks they send me for free chow, it'd be expensive to go away....bad expensive. I go through about 50 pounds a week...and that ain't countin' the canned grub I mix with the dry for'em.

I lost another Collie two weeks ago. Old guy got pneumonia and he was just too weak to get back on his feet. I lost 3 nights sleep tryin'. Took him for the last ride on Sepember 2nd. I miss him...bad. He was my constant companion and completely devoted.

That's three in a 17-month span. Don't think I could handle another one any time soon, but my last big boy is sneakin' up on his 9th year...and his mother was 10 in the spring.

 

[Water Garden]

I do not agree with the 90% of dogs need to be inside with the family. My 80lb Lab/Chow mix is a awesome family pet but his job is to alert us to unusual happenings on the property. I take the time to spend a couple of hours a day with my dog but he doesnt come inside the house unless I think its too hot or too cold for him outdoors.

 

[1911Tuner]

My 80lb Lab/Chow mix is a awesome family pet but his job is to alert us to unusual happenings on the property. I take the time to spend a couple of hours a day with my dog but he doesnt come inside the house unless I think its too hot or too cold for him outdoors

How very sad for the dog. A life of lonely servitude without having a real place in his pack.

 

[dieselkanic]

How very sad for the dog. A life of lonely servitude without having a real place in his pack.

Spending a couple hours a day with him/her doesn't exactly make me think of "a life of lonely servitude". Shoot that's more time than many people spend per day with their kids!

 

[1911Tuner]

Not the same as gettin' to hang out with the family. Dogs are pack animals...social animals. Contact with people or with others of their kind is as important as it is to us.

Dogs that can't be allowed to do that...for whatever reason...need to at least have the company of another dog...or risk winding up with a neurotic and possibly dangerous dog.

 

[dieselkanic]

Not the same as gettin' to hang out with the family. Dogs are pack animals...social animals. Contact with people or with others of their kind is as important as it is to us.

Dogs that can't be allowed to do that...for whatever reason...need to at least have the company of another dog...or risk winding up with a neurotic and possibly dangerous dog.

My experience differs. My dogs never come in the house and I rarely have more than one at a time. No neurotic or dangerous behaviour. But the kids and/or I spend a little time with them every day.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Regards.

 

[ilbob]

I do not agree with the 90% of dogs need to be inside with the family. My 80lb Lab/Chow mix is a awesome family pet but his job is to alert us to unusual happenings on the property. I take the time to spend a couple of hours a day with my dog but he doesnt come inside the house unless I think its too hot or too cold for him outdoors.

A couple hours a day of time with your dog is probably quite adequate for a well adjusted dog.

 

[1911Tuner]

We will have to agree to disagree.

As you please.

I'm not tryin' to bust anybody's chops. I really ain't...but I'm in the dog bidness, neighbor. Dogs are one of my three lifelong passions, and I've mostly worked with rescuing rehabitating unsocial dogs...the ones that nobody wants to deal with...and I've got the bite scars on both arms from the hands clean up to the elbows to prove it.

There are two main reasons that dogs turn. Abuse and isolation...and they often don't give notice that they've reached that point...unless you know specifically what to look for. That's why, when we hear pf a dog turning on its owner/master without warning...the whole neighborhood is in shock. They can't believe that this dog bit somebody. Yet, it happens daily, and the dog gets to die for it.

A chained dog is a dangerous dog. An isolated dog is only a little less so. So...I'll shed a tear for the dog anyway. His lot in life is a lonely one.

 

[Guillermo]

1911 is 100% correct. Dogs are pack animals and not being with a pack of some sort makes for an unbalanced dog.

I would suggest aquiring another dog so that he can have a pack experience.

BTW
I spent many years training dogs. They are not hard to figure out.

 

[Jamie C.]

I do not agree with the 90% of dogs need to be inside with the family.

I do. As a matter of fact, if I couldn't have my dogs in the house, I wouldn't own 'em.

We have seven of 'em. All mutts, a mix of "pound puppies", strays, and "throw-aways". And all live here. And I do mean live here, not simple serve here. The smallest is also the youngest; he's 10 months old and maybe 45 pounds. The largest is about 3 years old and around 150 pounds. Something like 600+ pounds of dogs, all total.

I grew up with dogs being kept outside, mostly on a chain, and that's something that will never happen with any that I have.

Oh, and concerning protectiveness... I was shocked to find out that one of our silliest, most playful dogs is actually the most disinclined to have strangers get too close. She's a Border Collie/ Lab mix, and usually nothing more than a clown. However, the first trip out to the vets, and she was ready to eat anyone that got too close to our van.

To say I was shocked when she started growling and showing her teeth at some poor woman in the parking lot, when we first pulled up, is an understatement. Especially since she's never had any problem with anybody that we've brought into our house to visit, or even the vet, once she got inside the office. All a person usually gets from her is the expectation to be petted.


J.C.

 

[1911Tuner]

Dogs are highly social. Even moreso than we are. In penal institutions, solitary confinement is considered to be a harsh punishment for a reason...because it is. The term "Stir Crazy" isn't a joke among inmates. It's very real.

 

[roo_ster]

I recall when my sister & BIL were both working a whole lot and their dog was going kinda stir crazy. They knew they had little choice but to soldier on, but they were smart in that they got another dog to keep the first company.

My BIL would introduce folks to them in this way, "This here is our dog Scarlett. And over here is Scarlett's dog Melanie."

We have two dogs for similar reasons. Even though our dogs live with us (usually outside during the day, inside at night), we want to make sure they have both human and doggy interaction. My wife has been home these last few years and our kids (3 & 4 YO) have turned into bigtime dog-lovers, so human interaction is abundant. We just want to make sure nobody gets bored or lonely.

Our female GSP was an only dog for a while, after our male GSP died. She took his death VERY hard and became a velcro dog and inconsolable when alone. Our new pup, a Dobie, drives her nuts at times, but the positive change in her demeanor has been remarkable.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i've had better luck training when i had a pack. dogs are more tractable and seem to learn from one another

 

[fireside44]

Pits are not really a good choice for someone who wants reliable protection (not their fault; neither are most breeds, or most dogs) but do make awesome companions if you can match their energy.

I'd have to disagree there.

In my experience, a person who is familiar with the dog and knows it's name could rob you blind while the pit stands on and watches, waiting to get attention. As for those strangers who are not familiar, whole other story.

I learned all this ten years ago, when around midnight, something came through the yard and the dogs went on red alert. I couldn't believe the control they exhibited, hanging on my every command. I always thought them a bit more carefree than that.

The "something" turned out to be a plastic grocery bag but if I had given the word, the bag would've been toast. I still remember that night.

 

[dieselkanic]

As you please.

I'm not tryin' to bust anybody's chops. I really ain't...but I'm in the dog bidness, neighbor. Dogs are one of my three lifelong passions, and I've mostly worked with rescuing rehabitating unsocial dogs...the ones that nobody wants to deal with...and I've got the bite scars on both arms from the hands clean up to the elbows to prove it.

There are two main reasons that dogs turn. Abuse and isolation...and they often don't give notice that they've reached that point...unless you know specifically what to look for. That's why, when we hear pf a dog turning on its owner/master without warning...the whole neighborhood is in shock. They can't believe that this dog bit somebody. Yet, it happens daily, and the dog gets to die for it.

A chained dog is a dangerous dog. An isolated dog is only a little less so. So...I'll shed a tear for the dog anyway. His lot in life is a lonely one.

I have had dogs my entire life (pushing 50 years). Very rarely more than one at a time. Never, I repeat never, had one 'turn' on me. My dogs are never chained once they learn where home is. I have no bites or scars. Some of these I raised from pups. Some were from the pound. Some were dogs that were 'dumped' in the country where I live. None 'turned' on me. I have never heard of a dog 'turning' on it's owner because it had no doggy companions until you raised the thought. I think you are over-stating your case.

Regards.