I use a type of sign language with my dog. It's nice when I'm on the phone not to have to interrupt the convo, and it actually seems to work better than verbal alone when there are visual distractions around. Anyone can teach the dog sign language if it already knows the commands. You just make the sign at the same time as the command every time for a while, and pretty soon the dog will know the sign as well as the verbal cue. In fact, dogs often watch you for visual cues even if you don't mean to give them. If I raise my eyebrows, take a breath, and square myself to the dog, sometimes he knows I'm about to give a command and tries to guess what it is. Cute.
A note on dogs
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WVMountainBoy
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I have a Aussie Cattle Dog/Beagle mix who tips the scales at a scary 26 lbs. He's fast as lightening and agile as a hummingbird...best of all he has a bark that can wake me from a dead sleep. He doesn't bark often, and alerts me to noises he considers new or strange. He isn't aggressive and loves to meet new people. His security role is simpily that he barks when his keen ears picks up something. So far he hasn't had any false alarms and he's been rewarded for alerting me to the presense of a bear (a rather small black) in my back yard and two occasions of 'coons playin on the back porch. He's kept inside 80% of the time and sleeps at the foot of the bed. He spends his energy outside on a runner I constructed of rope and chain. He would not be a serious threat on his own to an intruder, though I venture to think he would give their ankles a serious lashing...but his bark would assure that I'm ready to make some noise of my own. Its as much about training yourself to respond to your dog as it is about training him.
I have 4 dogs and they do a great job of letting me know of anything out of the ordinary. On one occasion, my female Heeler jumped up on the bed while I was sleeping and wouldn't calm down. We realized that there was carbon monoxide in the house after we got up and we were both really dizzy and nauseous. Another time one of my other Heelers was going crazy trying to get outside- scratching at the door and whining. I let him out and he cornered someone in the back of the yard. It was just a kid who thought my yard was a good path to get to his girlfriend's house, but I had no idea. My dogs have let me know when there are rattlesnakes when I was out hiking (the snake was right next to the trail under a Yucca). A drunk got too close to my wife when she was leaving obedience class at a local park (he was sneaking up on her while she was loading the car)- my Pitbull jumped out of the car window and made it very clear that he was not to come any closer.
I could go on forever, but I trust my dogs' judgement better than my own.
I could go on forever, but I trust my dogs' judgement better than my own.
mustang_steve
Member
Bigo01, I fully agree with protective instinct...but it's not a guranteed reaction. Dogs are emotional too, and if they are more afraid than brave at that moment...you're going to have some barking. At least it's a warning.
It's just the thought that they can be certain it happens that amuses me.
It's just the thought that they can be certain it happens that amuses me.
VideoGamesMadeMeDoIt
Member
Some really interesting opinions in this thread, that's for sure. There are many different schools of thought when it comes to dog training, and I can't discount any of them offhand. Personally it really makes my fur stand up when my dog gets uneasy.
I foster for a non-breed specific rescue as well and I've seen a lot of mutts and a lot of purebreds. I also have an education in service dog training (mobility, primarily).
The only dog I've been bitten by was a Lhasa Apso I'd just met, I picked it up and it nailed me on the chin. We took it to the vet to get neutered and come to find out it had an infection from a burr where I was holding it. There is very little dog behavior that isn't telegraphed.
That said, there is very little that can be universalized about dogs, except that they are at their core animals and at the end of the day no amount of training is overcome a core instinct. If that instinct is survival, two dogs might respond in completely different ways.
For the love of all that is good, treat your dog like the incredible creature that it is. Gone are the days when it is acceptable to leave your dog outside 99% of the time(with the exception of a few breeds, and individuals). And neuter your animal unless they are the greatest thing to happen to the breed in the last 30 years. Now I'm done being Bob Barker.
I foster for a non-breed specific rescue as well and I've seen a lot of mutts and a lot of purebreds. I also have an education in service dog training (mobility, primarily).
The only dog I've been bitten by was a Lhasa Apso I'd just met, I picked it up and it nailed me on the chin. We took it to the vet to get neutered and come to find out it had an infection from a burr where I was holding it. There is very little dog behavior that isn't telegraphed.
That said, there is very little that can be universalized about dogs, except that they are at their core animals and at the end of the day no amount of training is overcome a core instinct. If that instinct is survival, two dogs might respond in completely different ways.
For the love of all that is good, treat your dog like the incredible creature that it is. Gone are the days when it is acceptable to leave your dog outside 99% of the time(with the exception of a few breeds, and individuals). And neuter your animal unless they are the greatest thing to happen to the breed in the last 30 years. Now I'm done being Bob Barker.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
It's just the thought that they can be certain it happens that amuses me.
Steve,
Tell me what state you are in, and chances are I can introduce you to some people who CAN be certain "it will happen" with their dogs, any time a threat appears.
If you're down in the southwest, try http://www.filafest.com/index.html , coming up soon...
lpl
Steve,
Tell me what state you are in, and chances are I can introduce you to some people who CAN be certain "it will happen" with their dogs, any time a threat appears.
If you're down in the southwest, try http://www.filafest.com/index.html , coming up soon...
lpl
JMusic
member
I think you have to work with dogs before you know what they are capable of. Yes many will protect on the majority or occasions yet the electric meter man, ups man, and other regulars have no trouble. Dogs have a sense of danger everybit as good if not better than humans. I try to introduce a new dog to all my utility people and friends. I let them investigate uninvited guests. A good way of giving an example to a dog. Thats about all they need.
Jim
Jim
My pure bred yellow Lab has developed this all on her own. While it's nice she is observant enough for this tactic, boy is it painfully annoying to hear a quick yarp from her when everything is nice, quiet and mellow in the house. And with a neighborhood full of kids and mothers running around, the barking is almost constant.
Yup. Our neighbor bought a pure yellow Lab because we had 2 and they are "fun". Well, suffice to say, only their little boy had enough time on his hands to do anything with the dog. Sadly the dog was not able to be potty trained, therefore it lead a year of its life outside, in a cage, until it was bed time or the boy played with it. They gave it away to the humane shelter two weekends ago because the dog was more work than they wanted.
It could have been a very nice and well mannered dog, had the owners been responsible.
coloradokevin
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I'll chime in, as a dog owner myself, even though much of this has already been said:
1) Only get a dog if it is appropriate for your situation, and only if you are willing to give that dog care and attention.
2) For most people the goal in having a "watch dog" should be limited to having an alert animal who will notify you when trouble is coming.
3) For the most part, true "attack" dogs are either chosen from good breed stock, and then highly trained (thus, expensive), or are dangerous and unsocialized animals. You will rarely run across a well-socialized pet dog that you can expect to reliably bite the bad guy, while still behaving with the good guys.
4) Having a dog that only provides a visual and auditory deterent to criminals isn't necessarily a bad thing. They don't need to attack to be useful, and they should be regarded as a part of the family, rather than being chained in the alley at all times.
5) If your dog fails to perform as you expected against a criminal, don't blame the dog. Just because you believe that your dog is a highly skilled burglar-eating machine, doesn't mean that the dog believes it should be taking on this role. As such, only get a dog if you want a dog!
6) If you want a dog that barks at every possible threat, just remember that you are going to end up with a dog that barks at darn near everything!
For my part of it, I have an 80lb German Shepherd/Akita mix at home. She's a great dog, and loves everyone. I can take her to the park, she can play with children, and she goes on hikes with me. She does a good job of alerting me to something approaching the house, particularly at night, but doesn't bark much otherwise (sometimes her "alerting" consists only of whimpering at the door because she thinks a "friend" is approaching). My dog looks bold, but I wouldn't expect her to attack a criminal... It isn't to say that there isn't the possibility that she would if her home was threatened, but I certainly wouldn't count on this sort of chance behavior.
1) Only get a dog if it is appropriate for your situation, and only if you are willing to give that dog care and attention.
2) For most people the goal in having a "watch dog" should be limited to having an alert animal who will notify you when trouble is coming.
3) For the most part, true "attack" dogs are either chosen from good breed stock, and then highly trained (thus, expensive), or are dangerous and unsocialized animals. You will rarely run across a well-socialized pet dog that you can expect to reliably bite the bad guy, while still behaving with the good guys.
4) Having a dog that only provides a visual and auditory deterent to criminals isn't necessarily a bad thing. They don't need to attack to be useful, and they should be regarded as a part of the family, rather than being chained in the alley at all times.
5) If your dog fails to perform as you expected against a criminal, don't blame the dog. Just because you believe that your dog is a highly skilled burglar-eating machine, doesn't mean that the dog believes it should be taking on this role. As such, only get a dog if you want a dog!
6) If you want a dog that barks at every possible threat, just remember that you are going to end up with a dog that barks at darn near everything!
For my part of it, I have an 80lb German Shepherd/Akita mix at home. She's a great dog, and loves everyone. I can take her to the park, she can play with children, and she goes on hikes with me. She does a good job of alerting me to something approaching the house, particularly at night, but doesn't bark much otherwise (sometimes her "alerting" consists only of whimpering at the door because she thinks a "friend" is approaching). My dog looks bold, but I wouldn't expect her to attack a criminal... It isn't to say that there isn't the possibility that she would if her home was threatened, but I certainly wouldn't count on this sort of chance behavior.
JMusic
member
I agree with most that has been said here in favor of dogs. I have trained attack dogs and believe me they are no longer a family dog. I saw my Sheperd belly craw through a woods to attack the neighbors walking down the road. I called her off but she had allready snuck to the edge of the woods 20ft behind the walkers.
Dogs are braver when there owners are home but they can be more aggressive when left alone. Start with a dog you can handle. The barking many times is enough deterrrent no matter what the size. If you are not willing though to love love this dog everyday and show if not love respect get yourself a burgler alarm. One more thing when you give a command you make the dog understand and do it even if it takes all afternoon. Love the hell out of them afterward. They learn fast.
Jim
Dogs are braver when there owners are home but they can be more aggressive when left alone. Start with a dog you can handle. The barking many times is enough deterrrent no matter what the size. If you are not willing though to love love this dog everyday and show if not love respect get yourself a burgler alarm. One more thing when you give a command you make the dog understand and do it even if it takes all afternoon. Love the hell out of them afterward. They learn fast.
Jim
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76shuvlinoff
Member
My last two dogs have been rescues. The female German Shepard is a bit neurotic but loving. The Saint Bernard and ? mix is just a loving dolt but he is alert to the slightest extraordinary sound and tips the scales at 120 plus.
The best dog I ever owned was a boxer mastiff mix. At 130lbs and all chest and neck with a cannon bark Benz had a formidable presence but he was the best babysitter I ever had. After 13 years I personally put him in the ground under the shade tree in the back yard about a year ago. I still miss him and all I have to do is mention his name to bring a tear to my wife's eyes.
There are very few bad dogs and there are those you will never forget. Be worthy of their love and devotion.
The best dog I ever owned was a boxer mastiff mix. At 130lbs and all chest and neck with a cannon bark Benz had a formidable presence but he was the best babysitter I ever had. After 13 years I personally put him in the ground under the shade tree in the back yard about a year ago. I still miss him and all I have to do is mention his name to bring a tear to my wife's eyes.
There are very few bad dogs and there are those you will never forget. Be worthy of their love and devotion.
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Tinman357
Member
But do others a favor...
And keep the dogs on a leash when out in public. (off leash dog parks exempt) I live in a marina. I have a right to walk along the docks as I go about my business. I shouldn't have to "Brace" every time a loose dog comes around me. I don't know it's a good dog and to be honest I don't trust your judgment.
I have a great dog, wouldn't hurt a flea. But, when he's off the boat he's on a leash. That's in consideration of other people as well as for his personal safety.
In short. loose dog gets aggressive with me or my dog the outcome won't be polite.
Besides, most states have leash laws. Since everyone here prides themselves on being law abiding citizens I know I'm preaching to the choir but not every dog owner is as smart as we are...
I'd hate to see some innocent dog get hurt because it had the misfortune of being owned by an idiot..
Harold Fish anyone?
And keep the dogs on a leash when out in public. (off leash dog parks exempt) I live in a marina. I have a right to walk along the docks as I go about my business. I shouldn't have to "Brace" every time a loose dog comes around me. I don't know it's a good dog and to be honest I don't trust your judgment.
I have a great dog, wouldn't hurt a flea. But, when he's off the boat he's on a leash. That's in consideration of other people as well as for his personal safety.
In short. loose dog gets aggressive with me or my dog the outcome won't be polite.
Besides, most states have leash laws. Since everyone here prides themselves on being law abiding citizens I know I'm preaching to the choir but not every dog owner is as smart as we are... I'd hate to see some innocent dog get hurt because it had the misfortune of being owned by an idiot..
Harold Fish anyone?
Some really good advice, here.
I'd repeat that one ought not count out the family dog when it comes to responding to a threat. I am content for my dogs to raise a ruckus that will alert me, but even a dog that is untrained in protection and not particularly known for bravery can still deliver a toothy package on a threat.
Especially if the dog in question is well-bonded to the family and the threat is to small children the dog adores above all things. I learned this the other month the easy way from my wife's account and some non-English-speaking youth learned it the hard way.
I guess my other small contribution to this discussion is to make well & sure your dog(s) and kid(s) are well-bonded. Train them both to be gentle with the other and give them plenty of opportunity to play with and love on each other. Also, make sure the dog knows that the children are higher ranking in the pack/family. Our dogs could "run but not growl" as they learned to relate to one another
Our 6YO female German Shorthaired Pointer has known our kids (3 & 4 YO) since they were brought home from the hospital. I'm her alpha and she respects & loves me. But, she adores the kids. She does not like it when she is separated from them one bit.
I'd repeat that one ought not count out the family dog when it comes to responding to a threat. I am content for my dogs to raise a ruckus that will alert me, but even a dog that is untrained in protection and not particularly known for bravery can still deliver a toothy package on a threat.
Especially if the dog in question is well-bonded to the family and the threat is to small children the dog adores above all things. I learned this the other month the easy way from my wife's account and some non-English-speaking youth learned it the hard way.
I guess my other small contribution to this discussion is to make well & sure your dog(s) and kid(s) are well-bonded. Train them both to be gentle with the other and give them plenty of opportunity to play with and love on each other. Also, make sure the dog knows that the children are higher ranking in the pack/family. Our dogs could "run but not growl" as they learned to relate to one another
Our 6YO female German Shorthaired Pointer has known our kids (3 & 4 YO) since they were brought home from the hospital. I'm her alpha and she respects & loves me. But, she adores the kids. She does not like it when she is separated from them one bit.
PandaBearBG
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- 463
Yeah lots of good input and advice here. The biggest problem is that people treat their dog as a tool, ie: a deterrent or "home defense" animal. Or people treat their dogs as a person, we've all seen that. A dog is a dog who wants to do what the master says and wants and he will love you and worship you for that. Discipline is not abuse, and unabashed affection and forgiveness is not being a good dog owner. I got a Min Pin, he's small, friendly and extemely quiet, but he barks 2x whenever anyone gets in the driveway or touches a door downstairs. He keeps me alert and feeds of my alertness.
here is a good source of info (I have a video, good stuff) with free articles for the more regimented approach to PP dogs
www.leerburg.com
www.leerburg.com
SleazyRider
Member
My dog and I have an understanding: She lets me know when there's an intruder, and I---and Samuel Colt, if necessary---take over from there.
fmfdocglock
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Doggies
Most dogs are trained not to be aggressive towards people.
They will bark, be protective, give alarm, will slow bad guys down, and have great instincts about people. They will only attack when cornered.
But it is the job of Mr. Glock or Mr. Mossberg to do the real work in a bad situation.
Most dogs are trained not to be aggressive towards people.
They will bark, be protective, give alarm, will slow bad guys down, and have great instincts about people. They will only attack when cornered.
But it is the job of Mr. Glock or Mr. Mossberg to do the real work in a bad situation.
JMusic
member
A bit off track but shows the intuitive nature of a dog. A research center was trying to get a chip to do some type of action I forget what. But as I watched I thought I could have all 3 of my dogs doing this in less that an hour. After a week the classified the experiment after the last try. So happened a Tech was walking by and watched. He told the team he was positive his dog could do this in less that a day. Teir statement was dogsare dumber than chimps (none of the chimp team had a dog. Tech brought the dog in the next day same team worked with the dog. 45 min. later they were at 95% sucess at end of day it was every time. They tested the dog then after a three day period or no testing actualy the dog went home with the owner. After three days the dog still was at 100%. Scientists were stunned.
The more a dog is around you the better the communication. I know mine is smarter than my wife. They even know when to keep their mouth shut.
Jim
The more a dog is around you the better the communication. I know mine is smarter than my wife. They even know when to keep their mouth shut.
Jim
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Great thread. I have learned a lot from all the knowledge here.
My only contribution is to clarify the comments on Pit Bulls. Pits are tremendously loyal and make great family dogs. They have a bad rap from dishonorable abusers, but that is not the dogs fault.
The American Temperament Testing Society shows a pass percentage of 85.3% for American Pit Bull Terriers. This compares to 81% for Australian Shepherds and 84.6% for Golden Retrievers.
link: http://www.atts.org/index.html
We rescued an American Pit in March, and I would put her up against any dog as to disposition and temperament.
jt
My only contribution is to clarify the comments on Pit Bulls. Pits are tremendously loyal and make great family dogs. They have a bad rap from dishonorable abusers, but that is not the dogs fault.
The American Temperament Testing Society shows a pass percentage of 85.3% for American Pit Bull Terriers. This compares to 81% for Australian Shepherds and 84.6% for Golden Retrievers.
link: http://www.atts.org/index.html
We rescued an American Pit in March, and I would put her up against any dog as to disposition and temperament.
jt
Pits are not really a good choice for someone who wants reliable protection (not their fault; neither are most breeds, or most dogs) but do make awesome companions if you can match their energy.
Reminds me of a funny story: someone asked "Do pits do a good job at protecting you on walks?" and when told no, they said, surely they keep people away just by looking fierce. To which some pit owners replied, "Pitbulls are like a magnet for every lowlife in a 2 mile radius." I know this to be true, since people are always rolling by on their 24s to ask me if I want to breed my "all white pit" (actually an American Bulldog).
With SOME pits, not all, there is inherent dog aggression that begins at puberty and seems random. This is a fact. If you don't like it, either get an adult (proven non-aggressive of course) pit or don't get a pit puppy. Abusive owners are bad, but so are oblivious owners who think aggressiveness is solely a nurture issue in pits.
Reminds me of a funny story: someone asked "Do pits do a good job at protecting you on walks?" and when told no, they said, surely they keep people away just by looking fierce. To which some pit owners replied, "Pitbulls are like a magnet for every lowlife in a 2 mile radius." I know this to be true, since people are always rolling by on their 24s to ask me if I want to breed my "all white pit" (actually an American Bulldog).
With SOME pits, not all, there is inherent dog aggression that begins at puberty and seems random. This is a fact. If you don't like it, either get an adult (proven non-aggressive of course) pit or don't get a pit puppy. Abusive owners are bad, but so are oblivious owners who think aggressiveness is solely a nurture issue in pits.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Exactly so. Pits don't have to be "trained" to fight. It's in'em. They fight because that's what they were bred to do. First, to fight the bull...then to fight each other. They're most eager to please, and if they find that fighting pleases their master...they'll fight anytime...anywhere...any dog, no matter how big.
The trick to keeping a pup from becoming dog aggressive is to start teaching them that it's not pleasing to the master. For this, you need two pups...or at least another, larger dog that is docile enough to let the pup get away with overstepping his bounds...and immediately step in to stop it and scold the pup.
Never EVER hit a puppy...any breed...under the age of 6 months, and even then, never hit one that you don't intend to keep. Beyond a rap across the bridge of his nose to get his attention, you're rigging a bomb with a random timer. It could be weeks...months...or even years before it blows at the sight of a rolled-up newspaper.
1911 Tuner,you have the right of it...I used the same technique with the pBT's and Dobies I had over the yeas;with good results-stable &happy dogs that knew the difference between "approved by the Boss" behavior and all the rest.
Seriously-I consider both of those breeds to be among the best in the world WHEN PROPERLY TRAINED AND SOCIALIZED-with the early socialization being as important as anything else(except maybe for a boatload of love for the dog!).
As far as being "lowlife magnets" goes-it takes all types.MOST of my neighbors have Pitties,and the majority are families with a lot of small kids AND jobs.Lowlofes are always trying to overcompensate for the empty pocket in their shorts and the soul-shaped hole in their hearts...
Seriously-I consider both of those breeds to be among the best in the world WHEN PROPERLY TRAINED AND SOCIALIZED-with the early socialization being as important as anything else(except maybe for a boatload of love for the dog!).
As far as being "lowlife magnets" goes-it takes all types.MOST of my neighbors have Pitties,and the majority are families with a lot of small kids AND jobs.Lowlofes are always trying to overcompensate for the empty pocket in their shorts and the soul-shaped hole in their hearts...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yessir. If you want a good dog...love the puppy, and teach it. If you want good kids...love'em...and teach'em right. It works far more often than not.
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