A Rebadged 1200?

[Dave McCracken]

Brian, the newest Geezer (You remember him, he showed up to shoot one time driving a rebuilt tractor) was at the range today for the Geezers weekly meeting.

As usual, he brought out a new to him shotgun. He's bought at least three since signing up with us over the winter, a bad case of the fever indeed.

This one is a Ted Williams 200. Definitely not a Mossberg, it looked more like a Winchester with the safety at the front of the TG, slide release left rear.

It's Like New. Wood's on the plain side but seems to be American Walnut, nice trestle pad.

The barrel's marked Full, about 28" and gets along well without a rib.

I tried it on a clay from Post 3. Despite its lack of experience, it found the line and busted the bird well.

Looks like a 1200 to me, though I don't recall the 1200 having a semi humpback to the receiver.

30 years ago, I dealt with some 1200s at The Md House Of Correction. Due to lack of maintenance and outright abuse, they didn't last long.

A Search here shows that some Ted Williams 200s were Mossbergs and some were Winchesters.

I accept this is a Winchester, anyone have any input that may help Brian?

Dunno if he needs help, he got this for what amounts to legal theft.

Thanks....

 

[Milkmaster]

Here is a 1200 manual. Maybe you can check your hunch with the pictures.

http://media.winchesterguns.com/pdf/om/model1200_om_s.pdf

 

[TrapperReady]

Dave -

Here's a link to a Winchester-made TW200. The picture lower on the page does look like it has a bit of a hump-back to it.

Link to action listing

 

[JohnBT]

1971 ad...

But this search result caught my eye.

"I have a ted william 20 model 200 I am interested to get as much info on this gun as possible and on Ted Williams. Who is he?"

:banghead:

 

[TexAg]

Dave, just curious, but what generally broke or went wrong with the 1200s?

 

[Dave McCracken]

That looks like it. Brian's has no rib nor adjustable choke. The wood's a tad different.

Tex, it's been 30 years, but I recall there were lockup probs, one action bar broken(Possibly by mishandling from one of our gorillas) and one Trigger Group frozen by rust.

A number of folks I know have 1200s. If kept clean and lightly lubed, they seem to work well and long.

Correctional weaponry oft gets neglected, abused and bashed. 870s,97s and 12s came through fine but neither the 1200s nor S&W's police pump gun could take it.

Thanks, the mystery seems to be solved....

 

[evbutler462]

Do a Google search for Ted Williams. Back during my younger years, he was a very famous baseball player. Sears, Roebuck capitalized on his fame by buying the rights from him to brand their top of the line guns. Their lower quality guns were JC Higgins brands. I have no clue as to who JC Higgins was.

I have over the past 50 years owned many of these "disposable" guns. They are OK for the casual shooter if they are kept clean. I especially liked the Lyman variable choke on them. If you do much shooting, you need to go a little higher on the food chain.

They are decent guns for the average once or twice a year hunter. Start heavy duty shooting with these and they won't hold up. My LEO dept had some of them and they were OK for trunk guns and the once a year qualifications.

After I retired 15 or so years ago, they did away with shotguns and went to 223 rifles. Insurance and liability problems. I hated to see them go.

 

[Milkmaster]

My curiosity has been sufficiently tickled. So what is the correct answer? The 1200 manual pictures I see do not seem to have the humpback nearly as much as the Sears Ted Williams pictures posted. However, the 1200 shown on gunbroker does have the humpback look. I guess it is possible the manual pictures are only a representative presentation. So is it indeed a 1200 or something else?

edit... I just noticed the pictures in the 1200 manual look more like the Win 1500 XTR than they do the 1200. go figure?

 

[anapex]

My Dad uses the Ted Williams 200 when he wants to use a pump. I know his is the Winchester version, I'll see if I can dig up any pictures of it to check for the slight hump.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, folks. Good to see you, anapex. How's the family?

Ted Williams was the last .400 hitter in MLB. He was also a fighter pilot in WWII. After retiring from baseball, he spent decades hunting and fishing. His book on fishing for tarpon, bonefish and Atlantic salmon is a classic.

Brian's wood has no checkering and the pad's a little different. No rib, no dialaduck choke. Handles well.

I'll point Brian to this thread.....

 

[Fred Fuller]

Dave,

I picked one up a couple weeks ago also, again for the proverbial song. It is indeed a Winchester, a Model 1200 so far as I can tell. I gave it a good cleaning and showed it to the family wizard, who concurred in the ID diagnosis. The difference in appearance IMHO is mainly attributable to the fact that the rear of the receiver lacks the usual V notch that characterizes the Winchester-branded guns, and is shaped a bit differently with less streamlining.

DW latched onto this one due to its loooong forearm and light weight. She wants it amputated at both ends, I'm holding out to pattern its 30" full choke barrel (which responded nicely to a new bore brush wrapped in steel wool, some CLP and the electric drill) with bird shot before shortening it- the VFDs hereabouts still have turkey shoots from time to time. The stock is no problem, this one came without a recoil pad and it'll need one before she gets turned loose with it.

The main weakness in the older 1200s and derivatives thereof are the plastic magazine throats (Part #'s 40102 and 42102 in the drawing at http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/win1200.htm ). Those parts deteriorate in at least some guns, perhaps in response to exposure to chemicals used in cleaning. When they crumble/shatter/break, the magazine tube can separate from the receiver. These parts are also subject to wear in guns that are shot a lot.

I'm searching for a source to order replacement upper and lower magazine throats for 1200s so as to stock a set or three in the parts box, just in case. Brownells lists them as out of stock, Numrich says they have them online but I haven't tried ordering yet. I'm hoping Jack First will have them too, perhaps somewhere else as well.

Basically they are good guns as long as they aren't abused. Service life in demanding applications (military and police) has proven relatively short for them in years gone by, though. Whether the newer iterations of the design can live longer (the FN Police and Tactical pumps are rebadged Winchester 1300s) remains to be seen.

lpl/nc

 

[Dave McCracken]

Thanks, Lee. Everyone needs a turkey shooter, I hope DW sees the light.

I'm corrupted by 8 lb shotguns, but the TW seemed nice and light to me.

And in fairness, I'm sure a chopped TW 200 will make a decent defensive shotgun.

You reminded me. Some of MHC's 1200s had feeding probs. I doubt cleaning solvents as culprit, they were seldom seen.

I recall one 1200 I had to take down back then. Instead of a shell follower there was a soda bottle cap in the mag tube.

 

[TexAg]

Bottle cap, nice!
Thought I would check my 1300 20 gauge and compare it to my 120 for the plastic magazine throats, they look the same like both have them. I guess that wasnt an upgrade from the 1200 to 1300?

 

[mike724]

Ted WIlliams was a Korean War fighter pilot. His squad commander was John Glenn. There was an excellent interview in Esquire magazine two years ago.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Tex, I can't say. I know little about the models other than they are decent shotguns.

Thanks, Mike.

 

[Striker]

Dave,

We have a Sears TW 200 16 ga in the shop right now. It mirrors your description and the JohnBT's ad posting, sans rib and polychoke. It's wears a 28" full choke barrel . Like Lee, our gunsmith also tagged it as a 1200 variant.