About AR barrels - why choose an 11.5" vs. 16"?

[Oro]

I have been doodling with the idea of an AR-15 recently. Something that puzzles me is the 11.5" variant with the long 5.5" suppressor permanently mounted, vs. 16" barrel. What is the appeal of this? Why make those trades to stay NFA compliant when your overall length is the same and at the cost of lower velocity and more flash/bang?

Is it just for the looks, or is it to drop weight out front for a faster handling carbine at the expense of the above? Or am I missing something obvious?

I mean, I guess I could see the value of an 11.5" barrel for a SWAT team or similar in tight quarters, but what does the civilian not planning on assaulting urban targets get for using 11.5" + suppressor vs. regular 16"? I'm not knocking it - just curious to what the more experienced minds here think (actually, I am considering it).

 

[WC145]

I don't know of an advantage, I guess some just like to say their gun has an 11.5" barrel, never mind it's got a ridiculously long flash hider hanging on the end.

My patrol rifle is an AR with a 14.5" barrel and a compensator that gets it to just over 16". It gives me a slight manueverability advantage over a 16" barrel with a 1.5-2" flash suppressor attached to the end of it.

 

[ArmedBear]

There is no advantage. It's purely a toy, and it is supposed to have a sharp, loud report. You lose a good deal of velocity when you shorten a rifle barrel that much. Even a 14.5" ordinarily would be considered too short for the 5.56 cartridge, really, but for clearing houses in Iraq, you don't need performance out at 500 yards so much as maneuverability.

Thinking purely as a rifle shooter, not someone who expects to be involved in CQB, the 20" AR is the one that makes the most sense. Note that the USMC's standard issue is the 20" M16 for exactly that reason. They want their riflemen to have a rifle to use.

Anything shorter than 20" is a conscious compromise: you give up the intended performance of the cartridge in return for close-quarters maneuverability. There's nothing wrong with that, but if you hang a 5.5" flash suppressor on an 11.5" barrel, you get very poor performance, and a gun that's no more compact than the one with the 14.5" barrel plus flash suppressor, like WC has.

For a 16", the mid-length gas system and handguards make the most sense. Unfortunately, the availability is limited to a few vendors, and you don't have the variety of barrel weights, etc. that you get with a 16" carbine gas system.

I think the 11.5" intended to look like a CAR variant the SEALS had in Viet Nam.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The first AR I ever purchased was an Olympic with an 11.5" stainless match HBAR and 5.5" flash hider (Talk about a purposeless combination). I bought it because I wanted the Colt XM177E2 Commando look without having to pay the NFA fees - and the look was a major reason I bought it (I think I was 18 or 19 at the time).

I think "toy" pretty well describes the reasoning that went into that purchase.

 

[TexasRifleman]

what does the civilian not planning on assaulting urban targets get for using 11.5" + suppressor vs. regular 16"?

Peace and quiet when shooting it. That was enough reason for me.

 

[ArmedBear]

Texas, I think he was talking about a flash suppressor, not a sound suppressor. The 11.5"+5.5" is louder than standard AR configurations, not quieter.

One of these things:

 

[Oro]

Texas, I think he was talking about a flash suppressor

Yes, exactly, I was interested in the 11.5" + flash suppressor vs. 16" barrel. My instinct was this didn't make sense in a practical way, and I guess you all have reinforced that. All in all, I'm inclined to lean towards a 20" barrel anyway I believe, and a sold buttstock. Basically, true AR-15a1 or a2 type and no other bells and whistles. Heck, I'd even go for the old triangle-front handguard if I could find one like that - it's what I recall shooting as a kid (uncle and dad had Colt AR-15s back in the 70s).

 

[TexasRifleman]

Texas, I think he was talking about a flash suppressor, not a sound suppressor.

Ahh, OK. Well then yes, it's loud as all get out My mistake.

If you are not willing to go NFA then I agree, the 16" is the only way to go. No use or benefit at all to the 11.5 with a 5 inch flash hider.

If you DO think you're interested in going NFA, the Noveske flash hider works really well on short barrels, keeps the concussion in front of the shooter very nicely. You can't really tell the difference from a longer barrel, at least from the shooters perspective.

 

[Justin]

I have been doodling with the idea of an AR-15 recently. Something that puzzles me is the 11.5" variant with the long 5.5" suppressor permanently mounted, vs. 16" barrel. What is the appeal of this? Why make those trades to stay NFA compliant when your overall length is the same and at the cost of lower velocity and more flash/bang?

Because you're a mall ninja more interested in curb feeler BS than buying a gun that's actually useful.

Or you intend to file the paperwork and convert it to an SBR.

 

[ArmedBear]

Or you intend to file the paperwork and convert it to an SBR.

Justin- How hard would it be to remove a "permanently attached' flash suppressor? Would you have usable threads on the barrrel if you were able to remove it? Would the temperature of the torch damage the barrel's integrity?

 

[Art Eatman]

"Would the temperature of the torch damage the barrel's integrity?"

If it's silver-soldered, no. If it's induction-heat welded, the best thing would be to chuck the barrel in a lathe and turn it down to desired dimension. Thread as desired.

 

[ArmedBear]

the best thing would be to chuck the barrel in a lathe and turn it down to desired dimension. Thread as desired.

In said case, though, it wouldn't matter what barrel length you started with.

 

[H2O MAN]

There is no reason to go with a 11.5 inch barrel if you plan on adding a 5.5 inch extension of whatever type.
Now if you are going to do an SBR that is a whole different animal.

The 11.50" barrel is an excellent choice if you run it with a sound suppressor and use it for HD.


I am talking about an SBR






.

 

[KingTiger]

Here's a good article on SBR AR's.

http://www.politesocietyinc.com/cgi-bin/imcart/read.cgi?article_id=3&sub=10

 

[rcmodel]

What is the appeal of this?

Only one good reason I can think of.

You can use a bayonet on the short barrel with the long muzzle attachment.

Bayonets don't fit right on 16" carbine barrels.

That's why the real M-4 has a 14.4" barrel. So the bayonet handle lock can reach the bayonet lug while the guard ring is still around the flash hider.

rc

 

[ArmedBear]

A permanent flash suppressor, or a midlength 16", will solve the bayonet issue

 

[kwelz]

There is no reason to go with a 11.5 inch barrel if you plan on adding a 5.5 inch extension of whatever type. Now if you are going to do an SBR that is a whole different animal.

 

[45B@cav]

I think it comes down to what is visually appealing to an individuals eyes. I personally see no other reason for it other than it looks cool. Unfortunately cool and effective aren't always the same as with this case you give up alot for looking cool. In a HD situation IMO 11.5" is fine. I'm no ballistician but if my memory serves me correctly the intended performance of the bullet is dependent on the velocity that it is traveling when it impacts the target. So if you are inside a home at around 5-12ft from an assailant the you should still have enough velocity out of a 11.5" barrel for the bullet to perform correctly. That may not be the case at 50yds but then again like I said I'm not a expert in ballistics, I don't even reload but I do read alot. If I am wrong please correct me as I want to continue to learn. So basically if you like the 11.5" go for it, if you don't then get somthing else.

 

[TexasRifleman]

That may not be the case at 50yds but then again like I said I'm not a expert in ballistics, I don't even reload but I do read alot. If I am wrong please correct me as I want to continue to learn.

It depends very much on the bullet you are using.

For plain old FMJ ball ammo yes, you need to maintain a vertain velocity to ensure fragmentation of the bullet.

There are other bulelt designs however that don't depend on fragmentation for effectiveness so they can be used at much lower velocities.

The Hornady 75gr TAP is a good example. This bullet does not depend on fragmentation and is completely effective to at least 75-80 yards from an 11.5" barrel, most likely even more than that but that's as far as I've seen it tested.

 

[45B@cav]

Thank you, I appreciate the knowledge.

 

[oldFred]

Keep in mind you cannot own shorter than a 16" barrel in most states without being a LEO OR having a NFA stamp.

 

[Reid73]

Note that the USMC's standard issue is the 20" M16 for exactly that reason. They want their riflemen to have a rifle to use.

In that case, I presume that the Corps will be reintroducing the M1 Garand?

All in all, I'm inclined to lean towards a 20" barrel anyway I believe, and a sold buttstock. Basically, true AR-15a1 or a2 type and no other bells and whistles.

Good thinking.

I'd even go for the old triangle-front handguard if I could find one like that - it's what I recall shooting as a kid (uncle and dad had Colt AR-15s back in the 70s).

This thread may be of interest. Sarco Inc. sells the old triangular-style handguards for about $25, including the cap.

 

[atomd]

Those things are so silly. Stay away from that ridiculousness. Just get a 16" or one of those 14.5" with a perm attach flash suppressor on it to make it 16". Either one is fine. If you really wanna go short, spend the extra $200 to make it an sbr. If you already have a lower in your possession, don't buy a barrel shorter than 16" before you get your stamp.

 

[Sam1911]

Keep in mind you cannot own shorter than a 16" barrel in most states without being a LEO OR having a NFA stamp.

Most? 16" is the federal limit. And simply "being an LEO" doesn't get you around it, either.

-Sam

 

[oldFred]

Most? 16" is the federal limit. And simply "being an LEO" doesn't get you around it, either.

The police departments use these weapons, therefore being a LEO allows him to use it. None of these posts mention "getting around it".