Acceptable accuracy

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Lash3006

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I just recently sighted in my Remington 700 long range 30-06 and out of the 7 factory loads I tried the best group I could get was 1.25-1.5 inches(moa). Is that considered a a good group for the rifle I have? The rifle is brand new less then 100 rounds through it including the rounds I used to sight in. Will it get more accurate with time? I was excepting a lot better results considering the rifle. I plan to someday get out to 450-500 yards(hopefully), is that acceptable accuracy to do so? I'm really only going to use it for hunting and plinking around but would like it as accurate as I could with factory loads right now. Thanks
 
I'm sure others will follow me in saying that there are a lot of variables here. Quality of optic as well as its mounting system, and how you were shooting come to mind. Improvement may be possible in those areas.

A consistent 1.5 MOA rifle, in my opinion, is more than good enough. But if 1.5 was the best group but it's averaging 3.5, that's no bueno.

Anyhow the folks who know what they're talking about will be along shortly. :)

EDIT: I just checked out the "Long range" model. I would personally expect a bit better from a 26 inch heavy barrel in a B&C stock..
 
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Theres a bit more info needed.
How good a shot are you, and with what rifles?
What sort of rest/position were you shooting from?
Were ALL groups about the same, or were there some/many/most that were alot larger?
What optic do you have and how was it mounted?

Personally, Id be surprised if you cant find atleast ONE load that will shoot sub 1.5" at 100yds consistently. But there are alot of factors that can influence that Included, and perhaps predominantly, the shooter and their experience. Sporter rifles in the .30-06 class are getting to the point in recoil that actually take some practice to shoot well.

Your rifle, might also need some tinkering, which could be as simple as lossening and retightening your action screws, or optics mounts. Could be the forend is touching the barrel, or any of a half dozen other small fixes, and a few major ones.

Or it could just be the rifles only that accurate.
 
As already mentioned, the are many variables. 1st thing I would check is contact between barrel and for end. You should be able to slide a dollar bill between barrel and for end without it catching. I would also find specs for torque settings for the action screws. Loosen screws and tighten to those specs. What kind of scope and mounts do you have? A low priced scope is not going to have the quality of optics that a bit more expensive scope will provide. I'm not saying you need a $1000 dollar scope, but a $49 scope won't get you where you want to be, either. Same with mounts. I have an old Swedish Mauser, pre WW1, with a 1.5-4x long eye relief Leupold scope mounted forward, scout style. I can routinely cover 5 shot groups with a half dollar at 100 yards. My friend can get even better groupings, he is a better shot. You should expect and be able to get tighter groups with your Remington. Good luck and keep us informed.
 
If you were to return the rifle to Remington they'd tell you that it is within specs. A 1.5 MOA rifle is accurate enough for 400-500 yard shots at big game. On a hunting rifle I've always felt 3 shot groups tell me what I need to know and most modern rifles will shoot into or at least very near 1 MOA for 3 shots. If you're shooting 3 shot groups I'd be a disappointed, but not enough to give up on it. At least not yet. When you start shooting 5 or more shots groups will always be bigger. Five shots into 1.5" is not really that bad.

At least if it does it consistently. If group size is consistently 1.25-1.5" then it would probably be a keeper. Most rifles shoot more accurately after 50-100 rounds have been fired and some minor tweaking or better optics might well make a difference. If it only occasionally shoots 1.5" groups and the rest of the time is significantly worse I'd probably send it down the road.
 
Have you shot other rifles that you have been able to group better than that? Are you shooting from a stable brench with front and rear supports with no movement of the crosshairs as you pull the trigger?
 
I just recently sighted in my Remington 700 long range 30-06 and out of the 7 factory loads I tried the best group I could get was 1.25-1.5 inches(moa). Is that considered a a good group for the rifle I have? The rifle is brand new less then 100 rounds through it including the rounds I used to sight in. Will it get more accurate with time? I was excepting a lot better results considering the rifle. I plan to someday get out to 450-500 yards(hopefully), is that acceptable accuracy to do so? I'm really only going to use it for hunting and plinking around but would like it as accurate as I could with factory loads right now. Thanks

I got into competitive rifle shooting decades ago. I kept targets when I was sighting in my match rifles and sporting rifles , and of ammunition testing. I can look at groups sizes from then and now. What I am pleased to find is that I am shooting smaller groups with the same firearms. Consistently smaller and rounder groups. At the time, I thought I was the standard for accuracy, (don't we all?) and now, I know I am merely getting better.

Accurate shooting takes practice. Lots of practice. If you are shooting 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards, that is really not bad. I am going to suggest, that if you really want to improve your shooting skills, go shoot Smallbore prone. Some of the Nation's best long range shooters do, because in the words of the guy next to me at the 2017 Western Wildcat's, "it increases my X counts in Palma". It may seem counter intuitive, but shooting a 22 lr at 50 yards and 100 yards will improve your centerfire shooting at distance. The ten ring at 50 yards is either a nickel, or a dime, depending on the target, and because rimfires don't knock you out of position, or have an enormous blast, you will see errors in sight alignment, trigger pull, and follow through that were masked by the blast and recoil of a centerfire rifle.

Gun magazines and ads make shooters think that you can compensate for poor shooting skills by buying expensive equipment. This is not true, just like any other skill based sport, it takes practice and dedicated practice, to become a good shot.

If you can place ten shots within an inch, that's pretty good. As a comparison, this target was fired by a friend of mine. He won the 1000 yard Wimbleton match at Perry, placed in the upper five overall in the Nation a couple of times. He is an excellent shot.

He came and shot a 100 yard reduced course match. This target is 20 shots, fired prone with a sling, and with irons, single loading.



I will never be this good, but it is a standard worth trying to meet. (except for the 223 crossfire from the guy on the next firing point!)
 
I just recently sighted in my Remington 700 long range 30-06 and out of the 7 factory loads I tried the best group I could get was 1.25-1.5 inches(moa). Is that considered a a good group for the rifle I have? The rifle is brand new less then 100 rounds through it including the rounds I used to sight in. Will it get more accurate with time? I was excepting a lot better results considering the rifle. I plan to someday get out to 450-500 yards(hopefully), is that acceptable accuracy to do so? I'm really only going to use it for hunting and plinking around but would like it as accurate as I could with factory loads right now. Thanks
Did you break it in properly?
 
Lash3006 wrote:
I just recently sighted in my Remington 700 long range 30-06 and out of the 7 factory loads I tried the best group I could get was 1.25-1.5 inches(moa).

At what distance were you shooting?

At 100 yards, 1 minute of angle (moa) is 1.049 inches, so if the groups were 1.25-1.5 inches and you were shooting at 100 yards, then the groups were more than moa.
 
Have another competent shooter shoot it. I'm a better than average shot. I have a uncle that I know is a better shot than me. But there are a couple guns that I can outshoot him with. He was helping me with load development recently. I usually let him shoot bc he shoots better. Best groups he was getting was 1.5 inches. I wanted to try bc it just wasn't making sense bc a similar load I had tried before was sub moa. I tried and consistently got .6 in groups. Usually it's the other way around , somewhat.
 
The optic is a vortex viper 6.5-20x44. I was shooting of a led sled and not the most natural shooting position. My shoulders weren't even because it was a indoor range so it's impossible to get a good position, my right shoulder was behind my left. I'm a pretty good shot, I wasn't jerking the trigger or anything. Stock isn't touching barrel either. Maybe I just need to take it somewhere where I can shoot in a more natural and comfortable position using sand bags instead of the led sled and see what happens.
 
Theres a bit more info needed.
How good a shot are you, and with what rifles?
What sort of rest/position were you shooting from?
Were ALL groups about the same, or were there some/many/most that were alot larger?
What optic do you have and how was it mounted?

Personally, Id be surprised if you cant find atleast ONE load that will shoot sub 1.5" at 100yds consistently. But there are alot of factors that can influence that Included, and perhaps predominantly, the shooter and their experience. Sporter rifles in the .30-06 class are getting to the point in recoil that actually take some practice to shoot well.

Your rifle, might also need some tinkering, which could be as simple as lossening and retightening your action screws, or optics mounts. Could be the forend is touching the barrel, or any of a half dozen other small fixes, and a few major ones.

Or it could just be the rifles only that accurate.
Got 3 1.25 inch groups
 
Have you shot other rifles that you have been able to group better than that? Are you shooting from a stable brench with front and rear supports with no movement of the crosshairs as you pull the trigger?
That's what I'm thinking a lot of the problem is. I'm shooting from a led sled and my shoulders aren't even so my barrel is hoping to the right after most shots. I think I need to try it in a prone position with some sandbags and see
 
I just recently sighted in my Remington 700 long range 30-06 and out of the 7 factory loads I tried the best group I could get was 1.25-1.5 inches(moa). Is that considered a a good group for the rifle I have? The rifle is brand new less then 100 rounds through it including the rounds I used to sight in. Will it get more accurate with time? I was excepting a lot better results considering the rifle. I plan to someday get out to 450-500 yards(hopefully), is that acceptable accuracy to do so? I'm really only going to use it for hunting and plinking around but would like it as accurate as I could with factory loads right now. Thanks

There are a LOT of variables here that make the accuracy question tough to answer. But, let me try to step through this a few ways, with a few possibilities:

1) Factory ammo, especially hunting ammo, is not often the best choice for accuracy. For example, my most trusted precision gun is an Accuracy International in .260 Remington, and it wears a Schmidt and Bender scope in a Spuhr one-piece mount. This is a VERY accurate, very expensive setup, and one that I use in competition. The first 20 rounds I put through this rifle were Remington Core-Lokt factory rounds (I always shoot factory ammo first in case I have a problem, then switch to handloads). I was barely holding 2 inches with that crappy ammo. I switched to hand loads shortly thereafter, and shot a 0.5" ten shot group at 100 yards immediately afterwards.

2) If the ammo isn't an issue, the optic could be.

3) If the optic isn't the issue, the shooter could be.

4) If the gun is brand new, it could get a bit better in the first couple hundred rounds. Sometimes I find that new barrels take a few rounds to "smooth out" and shoot well. I don't follow any goofy break-in procedures, and basically just shoot the gun, cleaning it a bit more frequently over the first couple hundred rounds. Once I have a couple hundred rounds down the pipe, I reduce my cleaning frequency dramatically. I clean my .260 Remington about every 125-150 rounds, and my .308 Win about every 175-225 rounds.

Anyway, if you aren't sure about any of the first three variables, take a good hard look at them. Are you running a good quality scope? If so, is the scope properly mounted and torqued to the rifle tightly enough? Were you really shooting good quality match ammo? If not, shoot only match ammo, and don't expect 0.5" groups out of hunting loads. Are you sure you're not the weak spot in the system? This isn't an insult, as many guns can outshoot their owners these days. If you aren't sure on that point, find a trusted friend or great shooter at your range, and have them run the gun for a couple of groups. If they do the same things you did, with the same ammo, and they shoot 0.5" groups, then the problem isn't the rifle!

Finally, when you measure group size how are you doing it? Remember that groups are counted from center-to-center, because different calibers have bullets of different width. So, if you're just plain measuring the outside margins of where the target was cut by the bullet, your groups may be larger than you're giving yourself credit for. For example: If you measure a group and it is 1.25" across, you should be subtracting one bullet width from that measurement to get an accurate group size. In your case (shooting a .30-06) you'd subtract .308" from the group size. In that case a 1.25" group would actually be a 0.942" group.

Also, 1 MOA doesn't equal 1 inch. MOA stands for minute of angle, and it's only by coincidence that this measurement is close to 1 inch at 100 yards.

All in all, most shooters can't shoot 1-1.5" groups at 100 yards. So, don't beat yourself up too bad over that. You're shooting a factory rifle without a high dollar optic, and you're running factory ammo. Keep those points in perspective when you compare yourself to other shooters here on the internet. And, remember, internet groups are always subject to validation (there are an awful lot of "I shoot 0.3" groups all day long" shooters online who can't deliver like that in real life).
 
Try some better ammo. Run of the mill hunting ammo (CoreLokt, Power Shcok, etc..) tend not to be the most accurate. My Remington 308 I had a couple years ago would shoot the cheap hunting ammo about the same as yours. 1.25 to 1.5 MOA average with a few MOA groups. However with match grade factory ammo like Federal Gold Medal Match, Hornady, or Black Hills it would routinely shoot around .6 to .75 MOA. My hand loads were usually around .6 to .7 MOA average with it.

My rifle was a Remington 700 Varmint 308 in a B&C stock with a Nightforce NXS scope and rings. So not exactly a super nice setup either.
 
Don't think so. Tried federal power shok 150s gave me the best group

That's part of the problem. You're stacking inaccuracies.
Things that are hard to change:
You as a shooter shoot no better then X MOA
Your rifle shoots no better then X MOA
Things you can change:
Factory hunting ammo shoots a much larger group then Match ammo or GOOD handloads.

Factory 55gr .223 rds shoot 1.5" 5 shot groups through my Bolt gun
55gr handloads shoot 1" groups
69 and 75gr handloads shoot .6-.7" groups
 
Acceptable accuracy depends on your purpose.

My wife and I shoot recreationally. In general we can shoot more and thus have more fun, shooting "cheap" surplus or steel cased ammo than the $1+ per round "match" stuff. If your goal is to shoot tiny groups go for it. But also give shooting some ~2 moa "milspec" type ammo at 4 moa steel plates a try, in fact with some of my rifles I can do about 70% hit rate on a 12" plate at 400 yards with the "cheap ammo" if the wind is fairly calm.

The wind is the biggest issue at longer ranges. Sometimes I'll shoot ~$0.85 per round Hornady "Steel Match" ammo at 1.5 - 2 moa plates with my Ruger Precision Rifle. On days with a variable cross-wind shooting the 4 moa plates on at 300 yards the impacts on the plate will show a ~1 moa in elevation variation while being spread ~3 moa horizontally, with about the same variable wind directly in my face the impacts will be ~1 moa horizontally and ~3 moa vertically. When the wind is variable in both direction and velocity, I put away the "expensive" ammo :)
 
Things that are hard to change:
You as a shooter shoot no better then X MOA

At this stage in his marksmanship life, this part probably isn't hard to change.

A little training goes a long ways, and Uncle Bill or Gunshop Joe aren't usually the best (almost NEVER are) people to give that training. Find an appropriate instructor or shooting course, spend a little money, and learn.

1.25-1.5moa with factory ammo and a factory rifle might be all you can expect. If it truly is the best the rifle can do, sell it and buy a different rifle, because many will shoot better - far better.
 
I would check takedown screw, scope rings/mounts, and be sure they were torqued to the proper specs and then would try several diff factory loads. Alot of times a rifle is picky on what it shoots well and with 30-06 its pretty easy to find lots of ammo for. If after that your not satisfied, you may need to tinker with it a bit. All this assuming you are shooting from a solid and steady platform and you are doing your part.
 
Can the lead sled be an issue? NO idea what they are, short of a recoil reducer.
The sled places another variable between you and the rifle...are you THAT recoil sensitive that you need the sled? If so...recoil sensitivity may be adding to your group sizes.
 
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