Acceptable accuracy

[LoonWulf]

Can the lead sled be an issue? NO idea what they are, short of a recoil reducer.
The sled places another variable between you and the rifle...are you THAT recoil sensitive that you need the sled? If so...recoil sensitivity may be adding to your group sizes.

Leadsleds if used properly, can remove, or atleast mitigate, the shooters influence on the shot. While i dislike them for sighting in, i think they provide a good platform for testing rifle accuracy.

As to recoil sensitivity, again the 06 is on the edge of what the average shooter can tolerate with little or no practice. 50-100 rounds in a short span and even experienced shooters will begin to get fatigued. So he sleds not a bad idea for load testing.

 

[Lash3006]

Can the lead sled be an issue? NO idea what they are, short of a recoil reducer.
The sled places another variable between you and the rifle...are you THAT recoil sensitive that you need the sled? If so...recoil sensitivity may be adding to your group sizes.

 

[dranrab]

There's better accuracy in that rifle than you are getting. With the right ammo, I think you'll see .75 inch groups. Try some Federal Premium 168 grain Match King.

 

[TN Outlaw]

As long as the Lead Sled is in correct condition it will be of help, not hindrance to a shooter.

Its a steady platform with controlled adjustments for elevation. They are not the best, but pretty good. Anything that helps to take more of the shooter out of the shot will aid in accuracy for sure. Then it helps mitigate recoil to boot.

Im betting he just hasnt found his pet load yet.

 

[swampcrawler]

I was shooting of a led sled and not the most natural shooting position. My shoulders weren't even because it was a indoor range so it's impossible to get a good position, my right shoulder was behind my left./QUOTE]

Bingo.

Ledslead or no, shooting from a jacked up contorted position always sucks.

 

[ford8nr]

↑
Things that are hard to change:
You as a shooter shoot no better then X MOA

At this stage in his marksmanship life, this part probably isn't hard to change.

I was referring to things that could be changed NOW, like trying better ammo. As a Certified Rifle Instructor and 45 year competitor becoming a consistent MOA shooter takes more then 'a little' training. It always amazes me the people that either come to shoot or compete who shoot crap ammo. Adding one known bad variable is just not a good choice. I've shot mil surplus ammo through a Mosin with poor results. The same ammo sorted by weight and set to a std OAL shot ALMOST as good as handloads. If you're trying to shoot for accuracy remove all known bad variables to increase you're chance of success.

 

[Lash3006]

I was referring to things that could be changed NOW, like trying better ammo. As a Certified Rifle Instructor and 45 year competitor becoming a consistent MOA shooter takes more then 'a little' training. It always amazes me the people that either come to shoot or compete who shoot crap ammo. Adding one known bad variable is just not a good choice. I've shot mil surplus ammo through a Mosin with poor results. The same ammo sorted by weight and set to a std OAL shot ALMOST as good as handloads. If you're trying to shoot for accuracy remove all known bad variables to increase you're chance of success.

 

[Lash3006]

I was referring to things that could be changed NOW, like trying better ammo. As a Certified Rifle Instructor and 45 year competitor becoming a consistent MOA shooter takes more then 'a little' training. It always amazes me the people that either come to shoot or compete who shoot crap ammo. Adding one known bad variable is just not a good choice. I've shot mil surplus ammo through a Mosin with poor results. The same ammo sorted by weight and set to a std OAL shot ALMOST as good as handloads. If you're trying to shoot for accuracy remove all known bad variables to increase you're chance of success.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I am probably an oddball on this forum, but I do not measure my shooting ability by MOA. I shoot mostly with open sight rifles, lots of WWII stuff from all countries. If I can hit a 12 oz soda can at 100 yards, a 12" gong at 300 yards, and a 24" x 30" torso sized gong at 600 yards I am shooting good enough for my purposes. I do not shoot from a rest but in what I consider real life situations which do not allow for a bench rest, sandbags, or a scope.

 

[LoonWulf]

I am probably an oddball on this forum, but I do not measure my shooting ability by MOA. I shoot mostly with open sight rifles, lots of WWII stuff from all countries. If I can hit a 12 oz soda can at 100 yards, a 12" gong at 300 yards, and a 24" x 30" torso sized gong at 600 yards I am shooting good enough for my purposes. I do not shoot from a rest but in what I consider real life situations which do not allow for a bench rest, sandbags, or a scope.

Honestly if you can make those hits 75-80% of the time your probably a better shot than most folks with standard issue open sighted rifles. 12" at 300 seems like a big target untill you try shoot it with a post thats twice to three times as wide. I certainly cant make that kind of shot consistently.

 

[Lash3006]

Honestly if you can make those hits 75-80% of the time your probably a better shot than most folks with standard issue open sighted rifles. 12" at 300 seems like a big target untill you try shoot it with a post thats twice to three times as wide. I certainly cant make that kind of shot consistently.

 

[Lash3006]

Honestly if you can make those hits 75-80% of the time your probably a better shot than most folks with standard issue open sighted rifles. 12" at 300 seems like a big target untill you try shoot it with a post thats twice to three times as wide. I certainly cant make that kind of shot consistently.

 

[fpgt72]

Leadsleds if used properly, can remove, or atleast mitigate, the shooters influence on the shot. While i dislike them for sighting in, i think they provide a good platform for testing rifle accuracy.

As to recoil sensitivity, again the 06 is on the edge of what the average shooter can tolerate with little or no practice. 50-100 rounds in a short span and even experienced shooters will begin to get fatigued. So he sleds not a bad idea for load testing.

I am interested and hearing just why.

I love it for that.....I want to take the loose nut from behind the wheel as far out of the picture as possible. With the rifle mounted on something that is much more stable then me even from a rest it is a real plus.

To find out just what the rifle will do, or to figure out if you have a scope issue some kind of secure mounting IMHO is a must.

My CZ527 was brand new in the box.....I hung a pretty new scope on it, and went out to shoot....dang I just can't get this thing to group for anything, stuff keeps shifting to the side on me. Yea everything is tight what is going on here.

Run back to the house and grab the lead sled (I was lazy it is heavy) and to make a long story short the scope would not hold zero....it would shift over to the left a tick with each shot. I spent an hour chasing my tail and who knows how many rounds. You know....you are thinking...I must have jerked the trigger....it had to be me...a new scope can't have an issue....yea it did.

So I pull a crap-tastic Tasco off another gun and put it on the CZ....in 5 shots I was right on the button. Then it was just me and a new rifle getting to know each other.

I really like taking the human error out as much as possible....and trust me I have plenty of errors.

 

[LoonWulf]

Theres a change in poi for me going from a lead sled to firing a rifle with direct contact with my shoulder. Its usually pretty small, and on heavier or light recoiling guns there isnt one, but still i prefer to sight with the forend in my hand and the butt against my shoulder.
This could be do to poor technique on my part, but it has been consistent over the few years ive had access to a sled. I borrow the sled when doing load work ups if im gonna shoot more than 30-40rnds, and to check for mechanical errors in my equipment, for that i find it awsome.

 

[Lash3006]

Sorry everyone my phone was being weird and not letting me reply to the post. Thank you everyone I will try these and see if my accuracy improves! I'm defiantly going to start hand loading in the next couple years

 

[witchhunter]

This is all good advice. Make sure your barrel is clean, no copper in it at all. Check your action screws, too tight or too loose can make a rifle shoot off. How is your trigger? I can't shoot a rifle worth beans without a clean trigger break. Make sure your technique is exactly the same for each shot, cheek weld, grip, front grip, trigger squeeze etc. If it persists, you may have to bed it, trigger it and barrel it. All worth the money if you are chasing accuracy. In my opinion, ditch the lead sled idea and learn how to shoot your rifle. What good is a lead sled when you are hunting? Never seen one at a bench shoot either....not trying to be condescending at all. Please don't take it that way. Try this drill, dry fire your rifle at a small target. watch your reticule closely while your trigger breaks, there should be no movement at all. Concentrate on that when firing a live round.
Good luck.
P.S. You will never reach your rifle's limit in accuracy with factory loaded ammo, consider handloading for it. If you are trying to own an interesting rifle, you will someday reload for it. You can probably make it shoot better now with handloads than with factory ammo.

 

[Lash3006]

This is all good advice. Make sure your barrel is clean, no copper in it at all. Check your action screws, too tight or too loose can make a rifle shoot off. How is your trigger? I can't shoot a rifle worth beans without a clean trigger break. Make sure your technique is exactly the same for each shot, cheek weld, grip, front grip, trigger squeeze etc. If it persists, you may have to bed it, trigger it and barrel it. All worth the money if you are chasing accuracy. In my opinion, ditch the lead sled idea and learn how to shoot your rifle. What good is a lead sled when you are hunting? Never seen one at a bench shoot either....not trying to be condescending at all. Please don't take it that way. Try this drill, dry fire your rifle at a small target. watch your reticule closely while your trigger breaks, there should be no movement at all. Concentrate on that when firing a live round.
Good luck.
P.S. You will never reach your rifle's limit in accuracy with factory loaded ammo, consider handloading for it. If you are trying to own an interesting rifle, you will someday reload for it. You can probably make it shoot better now with handloads than with factory ammo.

I was just using the lead sled to keep the gun absolutely still while zeroing, I will definitely check the screws and everything else and clean the barrel too. Thanks for you help

 

[Captcurt]

There's better accuracy in that rifle than you are getting. With the right ammo, I think you'll see .75 inch groups. Try some Federal Premium 168 grain Match King.

I concur. My test load for a 30-06 is a 168gr Sierra Match over a starting load of IMR-4350. Do a ladder load. If it doesn't shoot one of these loads the gun will need some tweeking. For a hunting load a 165gr Nosler BT or Accubond is a good substitute.

 

[Nature Boy]

For me, the lead sled is less accurate than just about any fixed supported position

If you want one I'll sent it to you free if you pay shipping

 

[Lash3006]

Ok everyone not to sound like a noob or anything but are the stock screws the same one as the action screws? I've heard people say them both. So clean the barrel(no copper), wait for barrel to cool, check the torque on the action screws, give the barrel a couple hundred rounds to break in, scope isn't moving between shots (from what I can see), good trigger control...anything else? What about piller bedding it? The stock has a aluminum bedding block in it already, what piller bedding help? I don't need to shoot the .5 moa<, just want my rifle to perform the way it's supposed to. If 7 out of 8 types of ammo will only give me 3 moa fine I'll just shoot the one that gave me 1.25 moa but would like consistent 1 moa. Only using factory ammo now and will only shoot out to 450 yards for target shooting for now. Thank you guys!

 

[FL-NC]

2 points:
Assuming your rifle/scope/mounts/ammo are up to the task, the biggest limitation is YOUR ability to group (skill)
The standard for US Army sniper systems is 1 MOA

 

[climbnjump]

As to recoil sensitivity, again the 06 is on the edge of what the average shooter can tolerate with little or no practice.

Yes, tolerance to recoil is a personal thing, but the rifle in question - a 700 Long Range - is a heavier than normal rifle which should help mitigate the recoil somewhat.

I have one of those rifles, but in 7mm Rem Mag and used it in informal 600 yard F-Class shooting a couple of years ago. I have no problem with recoil when shooting 2 sighters and 20 rounds for score in about 12 minutes and I'm a small framed guy weighing right about 140 lbs.

As far as the rifle's accuracy, my best 600 yard score was 192-5x, meaning 12 of the 20 shots were in the 6" 10 ring (with 5 of those 12 in the 3" X ring) and 8 were in the 9 ring - which isn't too bad for a $600 rifle. That was a calm wind evening, I usually had scores in the mid-to-upper 180s when wind was a factor. I was shooting off a Harris bipod with a rear bag and a 16 power scope so nothing fancy there.

I didn't shoot much at 100 yards after developing the load I was using, but the last few seven shot groups were between .5" and .75", which is about what it would take at 100 yards in order to score a 192 at 600 yards. (There were also some pretty ugly 100 yard groups before I settled on the good load - it didn't shoot everything well...)

All rifles are individuals, of course, but my guess is that the OP's rifle will shoot better when fed better ammo.

 

[climbnjump]

For me, the lead sled is less accurate than just about any fixed supported position

If you want one I'll sent it to you free if you pay shipping

I will second that. I also have one, but it hasn't moved off the shelf in the garage in about 5 years...

 

[climbnjump]

What about piller bedding it? The stock has a aluminum bedding block in it already, what piller bedding help?

No, not needed.

 

[Klint Beastwood]

I bet you it is a paralax issue. Your barrel wont brake in, not really, until the copper balances out and your Muzzle velocity bottoms out for awhile. So cleaning it and break ins are really going to be an issue in a group...fouled vs none fouled might open up your first shot, but then your next shots will group the same usually.
Reticle swim is usually the culprit with shooters normally able to shoot groups. If you zero on the sled then you should be able to group on the sled, if you zero'd on the sled and then say, moved to a bipod, then that will change your harmonics. It is true that different bullets, or factory loads will perform better or worst in particular barrels.
Lastly, I can't say if 1.5 MOA at 500-600 will be good enough, it really depends on the shooter and their target. I will say this, since mils/moa are none linear, angular measurements, there are certain rounded numbers, I'm talking about usually the numbers your see in the in the hundredths/ten hundredths place, on top of all the other variables, on top of your rifles ability to perform and the shooters skill/error all kind of adds up to hit probability eventually....1.5 moa is fine, if you can get that down, it will just be better for longer range, increasing hit probability. Check your paralax for reticle swim!!