Actual civilian gunfights

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I am not sure if you are claiming that your line of argument

I was clarifying! Many of the threads were linking.. "if police do it, so should I" I was trying to clarify why Wanderlings post was related.
David E's
What does ANY of that have to do with carrying a spare reload??

but since you go on and on and on

By the level of your paranoia, I have to ask. Do you wear body armor?
You seem so very concerned about getting into a many round firefight, I'd think you'd be safer wearing a bullet proof vest. I've found them online, pretty cheap when you consider the price of your life.
 
I think this whole discussion is getting convoluted.

Here's a simple summary: if you ever have to defend yourself using deadly force, you have to be prepared not only for the encounter, but also for the inevitable investigation, possible criminal prosecution, and even more possible civil lawsuit. (Unless you're in the few states that have Castle Doctrine, if it works the way I think it does).

If it was only about protecting yourself with no regards to what happens next, then why even bother about getting a CPL License ? Just carry illegally. Of course this would be stupid and wrong.

If you get attacked you may get killed. This is the worst possible outcome.

If you successfully defend yourself from an attack, then are prosecuted and subsequently sued, you may spend the rest of your life (or the large part of it) in prison among real criminals, and have your family go bankrupt. This is the second worst outcome.

Even if you are cleared from government prosecution, in some states (most I think) you are still open to the civil lawsuit by the relatives of the deceased. It is going to be very expensive regardless of the outcome, and you still may be financially ruined if you lose.

If you're ever judged by the jury, you have to ask yourself how a lay person with no knowledge of self defense concepts or prior exposure to handguns outside of Hollywood will see your actions leading to, during, and after the shooting. Most of them have no basic understanding of guns, or magazines, or common vs uncommon gun modifications. Most of them really don't know the difference between a 5 shot revolver and 17 shot automatic pistol. There's no telling which way they can be swayed. Now, I have served on the jury twice, and I've seen, in both cases, the people with clear heads and good common sense leading the jury in the right direction (proud to say I was one of them ;) ). I also met some people whom I wouldn't trust to break up an elementary school fight. Power hungry hockey moms, well intentioned but terribly disengaged from the real world old ladies, guys with a huge chip on their shoulder who seemed to be bent on sending someone to prison just to make someone else's life miserable. It's a scary world inside the jury room.

Now, I've never considered how a person with spare clips of ammo or modified gun will be seen by then, until I talked to my friend; but this made sense, based on what I've observed.

So, I believe there should be a balance between been well prepared, and being seen as "dressed to kill" by the jury. What that balance is, everyone should decide for themselves. Also there are some states where in case of justifiable self defense, you can't be sued in a civil court. My state isn't one of them.
 
http://www.galls.com/google/style-BP385-general_catalog-galls-lite-contour-level-iiia-body-armor

Cheaper than the price of a good sidearm. I do have a vest that I usually only wear to Dept range - some of my fellow staff make me more nervous than Joe Sixpack! Massad Ayoob used to recommend a raid style vest with cell phone, flashlight and spare mag for a "roll out kit" to use in the home.



BTW, in this state concealed carry of a rifle is completely legal. Actually, concealed carry of ANY lawfully possessed firearm is completely legal, without a permit, but if you can fit a Lahti down your pants, PLEASE do NOT post pictures. :D We may also carry multiple firearms concealed legally, and multiple magazines of whatever size the manufacturer wished to produce.

I occasionally carry two guns, and I always carry spare ammo. My choice, and I doubt the philosopher who poster earlier could ever talk me out of my sidearm. ;) See, I walk among thousands of convicted felons daily armed with pepper spray, a radio and wits, but I chose to augment my personal protection when outside the wire.
 
Ammo

I suspect that personal preference should dictate how much ammo one carries. Personally, I don't want to "clank like a tank" when I walk, but I heard a long time ago that, "nobody ever walks away from a gunfight thinking, ' I brought too much ammunition' ". So maybe there is a happy medium in there somewhere. I started carrying on the job in 1971 and in Appalachian Georgia on 3rd shift you might be 45 minutes to an hour from getting backup and folks then, as now, would shoot at you. If you had to deal with a problem a couple of boxes on the front seat of the car or a case in the trunk wouldn't do much good so I began to carry as many spare 1911 mags as I could without looking stupid. I settled on 6 spare mags then and I usually carry at least two now that I'm retired. "Situational Ethics" rules. The later advent of hi cap pistols and mags helped considerably as I can now carry my Para P-10.45 and one mag and have 21 rounds. I like these posts because the discussions can get lively. But, if anyone disagrees with me then pile on in. I ain't getting my feelings hurt.
 
I carry one extra mag just in case. I don't expect a protracted gunfight (even most LE gunfights are not long drawn out events requiring lots of ammo), but it's good to have just in case. I usually carry my Glock 26 with 1 extra mag, giving me 20 rounds. I'm comfortable with that for SD purposes.
 
When I started carrying over 2 years ago, I carried a G26 with a spare magazine. Then I stopped carrying the spare for about a year. I'm not going to carry one on my waist. Now, I'm carrying a spare again. It has more to do with how I'm dressed than anything else. I don't feel more safe with a spare magazine. I don't feel underarmed without one. I just have more pockets. I've said this before and I believe it, I've never had a magazine failure with a Glock. I seriously believe 10-12 rounds is the enough for how many rounds you may need. I think I carry the spare more than anything else so I can reload when it is over and not be waiting for the police with an empty gun.
 
If you're ever judged by the jury, you have to ask yourself how a lay person with no knowledge of self defense concepts or prior exposure to handguns outside of Hollywood will see your actions leading to, during, and after the shooting.
Technically, the jury will be asked to decide whether you acted reasonably and prudently, given what you knew at the time.

If you had special knowledge as the result of training, and can document that training, you should be allowed to similarly educate the jury about what you knew.

Example: suppose you shoot an attacker with a knife who was 15 feet away. The "lay" jury may initially feel that you were in no danger: because the attacker couldn't touch you from 15 ft, you were "out of knife range." But we all know that any qualified instructor--preferrably the one who trained you, or the one who trains the local PD--would be able to testify that (as per Tueller) you were "in range" of the knife-attacker and in immediate danger.

Now, some might say that doesn't matter: don't ever shoot someone with a knife unless they're close enough to touch you, because the lay jury may not understand. Even if your failure to shoot when you could have ends up killing you.

And some may say don't ever carry a reload, because a jury may not understand. Even if your failure to carry a spare mag ends up killing you.

No perfect answer; so take whichever risk you prefer.
 
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