Actual ND caught on tape
- Thread starter Aikibiker
- Start date
- Status
Kilroy
Member
In the raw footage, with a zoom effect, you can see the officer slowly pulling the trigger on the Beretta until it fires. Also note that she could not get the gun back into the holster, which is still in a cocked and ready to fire state. She never made it to the holster and an instant later runs to the left of the camera waving the gun (cocked) around in the air.
This is several years old. Unknown what happened to that officer.
This is several years old. Unknown what happened to that officer.
lazhuward
Member
Good Lord! That gives me a serious case of the willies.
At least the officer didn't bother to aim at anything, so when she fired the gun, no one was hit.
At least the officer didn't bother to aim at anything, so when she fired the gun, no one was hit.
The problem is that while the four rules are taught in LEO circles, they are usually not ingrained, and even when they are, they are often instructed to disregard them.
For example, I know for a fact that several basic courses of fire at the federal level stress aiming-in with your finger on the trigger. A horrible practice to ingrain on individuals entering into law enforcement, where it is reasonably certain that they will be detaining people at gunpoint far more often than actually exchanging fire with them.
:banghead:
For example, I know for a fact that several basic courses of fire at the federal level stress aiming-in with your finger on the trigger. A horrible practice to ingrain on individuals entering into law enforcement, where it is reasonably certain that they will be detaining people at gunpoint far more often than actually exchanging fire with them.
:banghead:
atek3
Member
Jesus christ!
thats horrible
atek3
thats horrible
atek3
JackM
Member
It looks like she took her left hand off the gun just before she fired. Then she whips it up to her month right after the ND, too quickly if she was still gripping the gun. Did the loss of support tip the gun's weight onto a too tight trigger finger?
Run it in slow motion and zoomed in Irfanview.
http://www.irfanview.com/
Click on the barred box in the lower left corner to set speed and zoom.
A gent who was in RCMP training told me that he'd had only about 4 hours range time, with only a couple of weeks left before graduation. He was practising at our range on his own time and ammo. Recent changes in Canada's notorious Firearms Act make it difficult to impossible for rookies to practise on their own time, if they aren't already licensed as civilians.
Bye
Jack
Run it in slow motion and zoomed in Irfanview.
http://www.irfanview.com/
Click on the barred box in the lower left corner to set speed and zoom.
A gent who was in RCMP training told me that he'd had only about 4 hours range time, with only a couple of weeks left before graduation. He was practising at our range on his own time and ammo. Recent changes in Canada's notorious Firearms Act make it difficult to impossible for rookies to practise on their own time, if they aren't already licensed as civilians.
Bye
Jack
Kilroy
Member
Because that is the level of personnel and training that the local community is willing to put up with.
QuickDraw
Member
Yikes!!
I almost pooped my pants the first time I saw it!!
That cop putting the cuffs on was pretty cool about it,
kept control of the perp.I think I would have to change
my pants.
QuickDraw
I almost pooped my pants the first time I saw it!!
That cop putting the cuffs on was pretty cool about it,
kept control of the perp.I think I would have to change
my pants.
QuickDraw
FJC
Member
It almost looked to me like the cop doing the cuffing grabs at his knee afterward, maybe he did catch a little spray or cement chips from the round...
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Messages
- 22,510
QuickDraw - you almost pooped in your pants? If I was the perp I would have filled mine. Here the perp. is probably thinking, "O.K., I'm busted, I'll cooperate so I won't get hurt." Then, bang! WTH?!!!!?
I don't think that cop could have held me down. I would have wanted to strangle the negligent officer. But then again, I would also be thinking, "How much can I get from this?"
I don't think that cop could have held me down. I would have wanted to strangle the negligent officer. But then again, I would also be thinking, "How much can I get from this?"
Robby from Long Island
Member
That's one piece of real police video you won't see on "COPS".
Safe shooting.
Safe shooting.
Uh, Yohan, don't you think that, all things considered, that was the best thing to do at point?
Scare me much.
The first time I ever provided gun cover for another officer, I was a green rookie when a drunk failed to yield for a Trooper, who asked me to assist him in getting the guy stopped. The sad old drunk, who'd just been blazing along at 80+ with a Trooper running lights and siren for 10 miles behind him, just pulled it over when I got in front of him with my lights and siren and waved him over. Somehow the Trooper and I reversed positions, and boxed him in when we stopped. The state cop comes boiling back toward the driver with his Sig out, running at him in the semi-dark right-hand lane of the Interstate. I naturally provide cover, all the while wondering what the Trooper knows that I don't. Trooper yanks the drunk out, and handcuffs him on the car while I assess the for driver for weapons and then the car. When it was over, the Trooper tells me that he simply had his pistol out to take out the tires if the guy started rolling at him again. (Okayyyy.... I frankly thought he was ready to cap the guy.) At any rate, I remember that when it was done, I had a deep impression gouged into the top of my strong-side thumb, from pressing up so hard to make sure that safety was on. That index finger, I may assure you, was inches outside the trigger guard. And my muzzle was covering the pavement under the old Buick that the drunk was pulled out of.
The last time I covered an officer 'cuffing a possibly armed violent felon (I'd just caught him sneaking out the back window of his ex-wife's [who had a protective order against him] house, and he'd buttstroked a man a few months earlier with a shotgun, causing many dozens of stitches to his face), I had him get spread-eagle on the ground while the 'cuffing officer moved in. At that point, I shifted my aim to the side so that I had a clear view of dirt in my sights, extended my strong side index finger so very straight alongside the frame of the pistol that it actually arched backward, a tad, and watched the guy, then the window, then the guy, then the window. When the second cuff ratcheted, I just moved my aim up to the window and waited 'til the officer was clear.
GAWD, but I really didn't want an ND!
Now, at what point did I disengage and/or re-engage the thumb safety on my 1911? I honestly don't recall. All I knew was, I knew the status of my weapon at the time, and training made sure of that. If you're trained well, you're confident. If you're confident in your weapon skills, you can think about other things. If you're thinking, you can save someone's life. (Maybe your own.)
Scare me much.
The first time I ever provided gun cover for another officer, I was a green rookie when a drunk failed to yield for a Trooper, who asked me to assist him in getting the guy stopped. The sad old drunk, who'd just been blazing along at 80+ with a Trooper running lights and siren for 10 miles behind him, just pulled it over when I got in front of him with my lights and siren and waved him over. Somehow the Trooper and I reversed positions, and boxed him in when we stopped. The state cop comes boiling back toward the driver with his Sig out, running at him in the semi-dark right-hand lane of the Interstate. I naturally provide cover, all the while wondering what the Trooper knows that I don't. Trooper yanks the drunk out, and handcuffs him on the car while I assess the for driver for weapons and then the car. When it was over, the Trooper tells me that he simply had his pistol out to take out the tires if the guy started rolling at him again. (Okayyyy.... I frankly thought he was ready to cap the guy.) At any rate, I remember that when it was done, I had a deep impression gouged into the top of my strong-side thumb, from pressing up so hard to make sure that safety was on. That index finger, I may assure you, was inches outside the trigger guard. And my muzzle was covering the pavement under the old Buick that the drunk was pulled out of.
The last time I covered an officer 'cuffing a possibly armed violent felon (I'd just caught him sneaking out the back window of his ex-wife's [who had a protective order against him] house, and he'd buttstroked a man a few months earlier with a shotgun, causing many dozens of stitches to his face), I had him get spread-eagle on the ground while the 'cuffing officer moved in. At that point, I shifted my aim to the side so that I had a clear view of dirt in my sights, extended my strong side index finger so very straight alongside the frame of the pistol that it actually arched backward, a tad, and watched the guy, then the window, then the guy, then the window. When the second cuff ratcheted, I just moved my aim up to the window and waited 'til the officer was clear.
GAWD, but I really didn't want an ND!
Now, at what point did I disengage and/or re-engage the thumb safety on my 1911? I honestly don't recall. All I knew was, I knew the status of my weapon at the time, and training made sure of that. If you're trained well, you're confident. If you're confident in your weapon skills, you can think about other things. If you're thinking, you can save someone's life. (Maybe your own.)
El Rojo
Member
Yeah this one is pretty old if I recall. That is why cops train now to have your finger outside of the trigger guard. Many a academy student have seen that one a few times or more.
Gordy Wesen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
- Messages
- 422
Almost looks like the cops leg got hit by something.
Thanks for the post. Amazing. Bet this fellow got out of jail free.
Thanks for the post. Amazing. Bet this fellow got out of jail free.
Powderman
Member
As was mentioned earlier, cops get LOTS of training in firearms and safety--at least in WA. That's why they call it range WEEK--a solid week of 10 hour days--or more--in total immersion in firearms. In the academy we went to, we had to demonstrate the four basic gun safety rules, and write and recite them verbatim during our practical exams. If you could not, you failed. And if you flunk firearms, you're out. Period.
All of the times I have had a suspect at gunpoint, the weapon was aimed, but finger indexed. With my normal duty gun (Glock) my hands are big enough so that I always put my trigger finger ON THE EJECTION PORT! As soon as the subject is disarmed and proned out, and as soon as the cuffing officer touches them, then it's reholster time, folks. I "half-holster", meaning the weapon is in the holster but with no retention devices fastened. As soon as the first cuff is on, the retention devices get secured, just in case I have to jump in the middle of a ground fight.
I seriously doubt that that LV cop is still on duty.
Mike Irwin
Member
"-Why have your gun out with an unarmed person being cuffed.
-Why aiming so close to the perp / officer when guy is unarmed.
-Why finger on the trigger when not intending to shoot."
We don't know the background on the person being apprehended, or the situation surrounding the apprehension.
He could well have been armed when he was taken to ground, meaning that there is every reason for it to be a "hostile" apprehension.
Finger on the trigger? No way that should be.
"Because that is the level of personnel and training that the local community is willing to put up with."
As opposed to what?
Presenting the apprehendee with a boquet of flowers?
-Why aiming so close to the perp / officer when guy is unarmed.
-Why finger on the trigger when not intending to shoot."
We don't know the background on the person being apprehended, or the situation surrounding the apprehension.
He could well have been armed when he was taken to ground, meaning that there is every reason for it to be a "hostile" apprehension.
Finger on the trigger? No way that should be.
"Because that is the level of personnel and training that the local community is willing to put up with."
As opposed to what?
Presenting the apprehendee with a boquet of flowers?
Darrin
Member
Powderman,
That's why I said some.
That's why I said some.
4
4 eyed six shooter
Guest
Lucy, I think you got some SPLAINEN to do!!!
Sunray
Member
She should have been fired and charged. More evidence that cops are the most incompetent users of firearms. Have a look at my posting under the 'cop shot his foot' posting. Friggin' scary.
jmbg29
member
It's criminal that those Berretas don't have a thumb safety. They seem to go off all by themselves just like them there Glocks.
Oh...wait, Berretas do have thumb safeties! Gee.
Oh...wait, Berretas do have thumb safeties! Gee.
I have always said that the 9mm is an inferior round, why, I would have given her a shotgun and done the job right. No wait! maybe a fully auto in 45 cal or one of those newfangled 50 caliber jobs by Smith and Wesson or..................
- Status
