Administration secretly ends program that let pilots carry guns

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Mods, this is gun related, please do not delete.

After the September 11 attacks, commercial airline pilots were allowed to carry guns if they completed a federal-safety program. No longer would unarmed pilots be defenseless as remorseless hijackers seized control of aircraft and rammed them into buildings.

Now President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology.

The Obama administration this past week diverted some $2 million from the pilot training program to hire more supervisory staff, who will engage in field inspections of pilots.

This looks like completely unnecessary harassment of the pilots. The 12,000 Federal Flight Deck Officers, the pilots who have been approved to carry guns, are reported to have the best behavior of any federal law enforcement agency. There are no cases where any of them has improperly brandished or used a gun. There are just a few cases where officers have improperly used their IDs.

Fewer than one percent of the officers have any administrative actions brought against them and, we are told, virtually all of those cases “are trumped up.”

Take a case against one flight officer who had visited the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles within the last few weeks. While there, the pilot noticed that federal law enforcement officers can, with the approval of a superior, obtain a license plate that cannot be traced, a key safety feature for law enforcement personnel. So the pilot asked if, as a member of the federal program, he was eligible. The DMV staffer checked and said “no.” The next day administrative actions were brought against the pilot for “misrepresenting himself.” These are the kinds of cases that President Obama wants to investigate.

Since Mr. Obama's election, pilots have told us that the approval process for letting pilots carry guns on planes slowed significantly. Last week the problem went from bad to worse. Federal Flight Deck Officers - the pilots who have been approved to carry guns - indicate that the approval process has stalled out.

Pilots cannot openly speak about the changing policies for fear of retaliation from the Transportation Security Administration. Pilots who act in any way that causes a “loss of confidence” in the armed pilot program risk criminal prosecution as well as their removal from the program. Despite these threats, pilots in the Federal Flight Deck Officers program have raised real concerns in multiple interviews.

Arming pilots after Sept. 11 was nothing new. Until the early 1960s, American commercial passenger pilots on any flight carrying U.S. mail were required to carry handguns. Indeed, U.S. pilots were still allowed to carry guns until as recently as 1987. There are no records that any of these pilots (either military or commercial) ever causing any significant problems.

Screening of airplane passengers is hardly perfect. While armed marshals are helpful, the program covers less than 3 percent of the flights out of Washington D.C.'s three airports and even fewer across the country. Sky marshals are costly and quit more often than other law-enforcement officers.

Armed pilots are a cost-effective backup layer of security. Terrorists can only enter the cockpit through one narrow entrance, and armed pilots have some time to prepare themselves as hijackers penetrate the strengthened cockpit doors. With pilots, we have people who are willing to take on the burden of protecting the planes for free. About 70 percent of the pilots at major American carriers have military backgrounds.

Frankly, as a matter of pure politics, we cannot understand what the administration is thinking. Nearly 40 House Democrats are in districts were the NRA is more popular than House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. We can't find any independent poll in which the public is demanding that pilots disarm. Why does this move make sense?

Only anti-gun extremists and terrorist recruits are worried about armed pilots. So why is the Obama administration catering to this tiny lobby at the expense of public safety?
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Towards the passengers? Maybe this is hard to wrap your mind around TAB, but it doesn't stretch my imagination to think that a couple passengers taking a stray bullet or two is loads better than the pilots loosing control of the cockpit/airplane.
 
Unarmed

I know for sure, that if terrorist tried to take over my plane with me and my family on board, I would be praying the pilots were armed. If any kind of confrontation were to happen with the pilots, it would be up close and personal, less than 3-5 feet away. I'll take my chances with the armed pilots. Like I've said before, Obama hates the law abiding Gun owners and wants us to be victims in the name of Public Safety. As for the volunteering your family question, cmon, you can't be serious?
 
If its me, or an entire planeload of people, I'd take the bullet in a heartbeat. I'd be damn greedy to believe my life is more important than the hundred or so I may save. I have NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER with armed pilots, and I think any move to eliminate the program without sufficient cause is insane. Had the program been abused and proven inefficient, I'd feel better about its end...but, in all honesty, the program has been very UNproblematic, making me wonder just what it is that has motivated its demise. I'd love to see valid reasoning that didn't include "and because the President doesn't like guns" but as of now, that seems to be the only reason for discontinuing it.
 
TAB, I take it you are not a frequent flyer and a believer that one little hole in the aircraft would cause it to implode. The results of 9/11 dictates that we have air crews that are armed and my advice to you is to not fly commercial flights. One ND in 10's of thousands of flight times 20 or 30 years!!!!!! I think that is good odds. I'll take the chance, arm the pilots
 
And one mistake doesn't make a program "problematic" to the point of discontinuation, espeically when it was a "no harm, no foul" sort of thing. I realize all ND's are serious issues, but a single incident, IMO, is no reason to discontinue a program that otherwise seems to be working. Would you be in favor of the elimination of concealed carry if one permit holder had a ND or even broke the law in some gun-related fashion? I wouldn't, because, though statistically quite safe, there have been incidents of CCW holders both committing crimes and having negligent discharges. Does that mean the concept of concealed carry should be eliminated...or should those INDIVIDUALS who actually committed the crime or had ND's be held responsible for their individual actions? I'm never in favor of restricitng the rights of many because of the actions of a few, espeically when doing so presents a clear and present danger to my safety or that of others.
 
Yes, from a horible hoslter design & policy that said your gun had to go in a special looked holster not on you body during flight.
 
the program has has only been around about 5 years, not 20 or 30. The was also not alot of pilots( I want to say a less then 200 that could have them) a small hole in the skin of the aircraft will do nothing.

There is no such thing as no harm no foul when it comes to NDs.

i do think if you have a ND while CCW you need to lose your CCW and not get it back, ever.

Firearms have no place on board modern comm'l airlines( in the cabin). Anyway you want to look at it, having a fire fight inside of a comm'l aircraft is a very bad thing. The only really safe direction is a upward shot. This is not about rights, you are on a privatly owned transport. Fallow thier rules or don't fly.( even if there was no federal law against having guns in the cabin, no airline would let you have them)


i've been on 12 flights this year( starting jan 1) On average I fly once a month.

bille not true, they only had to have the lock on it if the cockpit door was open.
 
Firearms have no place on board modern comm'l airlines( in the cabin). Anyway you want to look at it, having a fire fight inside of a comm'l aircraft is a very bad thing.
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Considering that Plan B is having the military shoot down hijacked aircraft with a MISSILE, I would rather take my chances with the armed pilot, thank you. (Besides- I take it from your comments that you are against the armed sky marshals as well)

This is not about rights, you are on a privatly owned transport. Fallow thier rules or don't fly.
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This comment is just ridiculous. Suppose the airlines rules were that the pilot could drink beer while flying? As we have seen, what happens on aircraft does impact (no pun intended) people on the ground.
 
So TAB you're fine with Air Marshals having firearms on a plane, but no other trained sworn peace officers?
 
Not really, but there is a huge diffrence between some one that is well trained to do a task vs some one that is not. From what I understand of Air marshel training, it is nothing like what a LEO goes thru.

Perfect example, Air marshals don't give warnings, that gun comes out its going bang. I know of no other LEA that trains thier officers that way.


Divemedic, if 911 were to happen again, they simply would not have enough time to shoot them down. 911 was diffrent, no one had ever used a plane full of people as a guide missle.( atleast not as an act of terrorism)

Also, the drinking beer comment does "not fly" as no company would let some one fly 100+ mil aircraft, let alone one carrying passengers while they were drinking.
 
TAB, Three things. 1st -Some pilots have carried weapons for more than 20 years. 2nd-You recommend we just sit back in our seats if a Hi Jacker such as the ones that took over the flights on 9/11 and do nothing. I don't know any people like you and don't want to know anyone like you. 3rd- Air Marshals are not on every flight and the chance of one being on a flight that is Hi Jacked is next to nil.

Give me a flight where the pilots are armed
 
TAB, do you have a concealed weapons permit. Do you consider yourself well trained with any of the weapons you own. Have you ever had an ND. Are you a frequent flyer. Do you know if the pilots who carry weapons have not had any specialized weapons training. If you answered NO on any of the above your comments mean "0" to me.
 
Not airline pilots, charter yes.

do you think the american public will ever again let some one take over a plane with box cutters? 911 had never happend before, no one had any idea what was going to happen.

Chuck you know you just wrote off all but but about a several thousand people in the US?

I don't currently have a CCW, I live in a county that will not issue them. I did in the past, the sheriff here would not renew it, nor will issue them. I fly 12 times or so a year, about every other month. From the info i've seen from the FAA, they were barely trained by anyones standards.( 2 weeks+ regular "check ups") I have never had a ND.

As to if I'm well trained... I've had more hours of professional instruction in the last 5 years then the average local sheriffs deputy has had in the last 12. I know I've put awhole hell of alot more rounds down range.
 
Not airline pilots, charter yes.

do you think the american public will ever again let some one take over a plane with box cutters? 911 had never happend before, no one had any idea what was going to happen.

Chuck you know you just wrote off all but but about a several thousand people in the US?

I don't currently have a CCW, I live in a county that will not issue them. I did in the past, the sheriff here would not renew it, nor will issue them. I fly 12 times or so a year, about every other month. From the info i've seen from the FAA, they were barely trained by anyones standards.( 2 weeks+ regular "check ups") I have never had a ND.

As to if I'm well trained... I've had more hours of professional instruction in the last 5 years then the average local sheriffs deputy has had in the last 12. I know I've put awhole hell of alot more rounds down range.
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Well I fly every day(I am one of those pilots) and the pilots are already responsible for EVERY LIFE on that airplane. KEEP THEM ARMED.
 
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