Advice for my Father on .22lr pistol please

[Kp321]

Before I give my opinion, let me qualify my answers by saying I shoot several different disciplines with pistols, have shot Bullseye for 40 years and have been a gunsmith for close to 50 years.
I have had a Ruger MkI since the early 70’s. Outstanding pistol and the older ones had great triggers out of the box. Now you have to put Volquartsen parts in to get a trigger that good.
The Victory is a good pistol but isn’t in the same league as the Ruger, IMO. From a gunsmith’s point of view, they don’t seem to be very solid. They give some trouble if the ejector is not properly adjusted which amounts to bending it! I can’t see a Victory lasting 50+ years like my Ruger has.

 

[toivo]

I don’t know, when the hands and fingers are shaking a light trigger is an AD waiting to happen.

Is that really a big concern for a range gun? It's always going to be pointed in a safe direction when it's being handled, and he should be keeping his fingers off the trigger before he's ready to fire anyway.

 

[Riomouse911]

The Mk IV also offers different uppers that can be swapped, if one wants to buy additional ones later on. There are stacks of grip options for it, too, to allow your Dad to find a great hand fit.



I shot mine today with the 10” open-sighted upper. I took off the 5.5” upper with a dot just to play around trying to hit some 5/8” black bulls at 5 yards. (Got antsy and chunked one, the story of my shooting life )



The Mk IV is a very reliable and accurate pistol, it shoots better than most shooters (myself included!).

Stay safe.

 

[Riomouse911]

Is that really a big concern for a range gun? It's always going to be pointed in a safe direction when it's being handled, and he should be keeping his fingers off the trigger before he's ready to fire anyway.

Yes.

Lots of holes have been put in range roofs, walls and target hangers from people pulling triggers when not consciously intending to. Even if he is following all the safety rules, a tremor can cause a second, unexpected shot if the trigger has reached reset and the hand/wrist contracts.

OP, hopefully your Dad finds what he is looking for and can keep on shooting.

Stay safe.

 

[jmorris]

Reliable functioning of most .22lr pistols is more dependent on ammo than anything else.

I agree 100%, more important than what mags you run in a 1911. If it doesn’t work, it’s not like you can tweek the load.

 

[toivo]

Lots of holes have been put in range roofs, walls and target hangers from people pulling triggers when not consciously intending to. Even if he is following all the safety rules, a tremor can cause a second, unexpected shot if the trigger has reached reset and the hand/wrist contracts.

Fair enough. I wasn't thinking of that second shot.

 

[Tallball]

I haven't had a S&W Victory, but my friend likes hers very much.

My Ruger Standard and Mark II have both been excellent. I like their triggers.

My Browning Buck Mark has also been excellent. My friend has one, too.

Lots of good choices out there.

 

[jmorris]

There is also several companies makin some nice 1911 style pistols in 22lr. And several good companies that can mill the slide for whatever optic you want to run.

I didn‘t think about that but I could endorse the advantage arms conversion, I have a Glock one that’s pretty accurate and I played with their 1911 version when I got my ransom rest.



Hardest part of shooting tiny groups with a pistol are the sights and they don’t matter in a machine. The group might not be in the exact spot you want but the Machine can repeat better than my old eyes and regular pistol sights.

10 shots at 50 yards.


After that, I made my own version with a couple of improvements.


10 shots at 50 using it.



This is the mark II I mentioned in my post above. Shooting a scoped pistol is a learning experience.

 

[ms6852]

I have experience with both handguns and my recommendation would be to go for the Ruger. Only real reason is that for me the Smith and Wesson has grips that are too small for my hand to fit comfortably. For me a red dot was not a good fit and if he has slight tremors the red dot could exaggerate the sight alighnment. I personally shot better with a scope than a red dot.

 

[Atavar]

Is that really a big concern for a range gun? It's always going to be pointed in a safe direction when it's being handled, and he should be keeping his fingers off the trigger before he's ready to fire anyway.

It’s a huge concern for any gun anywhere. When the palsy hits there’s no telling where the gun will be pointing or whether the holder has the strength or control to manage firing the weapon.
I’m a geezer myself and I wouldn’t want to be on the range with a shooter suffering from palsy.

 

[toivo]

It’s a huge concern for any gun anywhere. When the palsy hits there’s no telling where the gun will be pointing or whether the holder has the strength or control to manage firing the weapon.
I’m a geezer myself and I wouldn’t want to be on the range with a shooter suffering from palsy.

Riomouse911 had a good point about the second shot, but I think that we're talking about a shooter with a mild tremor, not a full-blown palsy. Somebody in that condition shouldn't be shooting at all.

 

[Oninotaki]

Thank you all very much for the advice. The first one we will try out will be the Mark IV again. Hopefully the next rental will be in better shape than the last. Unfortunately for me my Father lives about 5 hours away so we won't be able to check anything out together until holiday season is upon us.

For those interested his tremor is slight and just gives his arms a bit of a shake every now and then. We are hoping that a heavier pistol will help tame that, and are looking at a 6"ish barrel as well. His hands are fine and he has no involuntary movements with them.

We will take a look at some of the tube sights mentioned as well as the reflex sights, so thanks for mentioning them. Also he is very intrigued by the charging ring that was pointed out earlier. Neither of us were aware of the insane array of 3rd party parts for these kinds of pistols and we are both looking forward to seeing what he will want to tweak, if anything after a pistol has been acquired.

From this search I also found out about this new variant of the Ruger mkIV 22/45 and I may end up picking up one myself as I prefer those style grips over the luger ones my Father is insisting upon.

Ruger® Mark IV™ 22/45™ Lite Rimfire Pistol Model 43949

ruger.com

I hope to have interesting updates to share over the next few months assuming the search to get one isn't to difficult and the holidays go smoothly.

 

[doubleh]

For an older gentleman with shaky hands a 6-7 lb trigger might be a plus. I greatly enjoy my MKIV

Being older with very shaky hands I can assure you it is not. The more effort required the worse you shake. Essential tremors are common in the aged, palsy and Parkinson's not so much.

I can only hope I am seen as a gentleman by others as I try to be. There is inexpensive medial help for shaky hands. With my drug plan a 3 month's supply costs are an astrominical $4 as I have evolved to a fairly large daily doseage. It is an old and safe drug but has a side effect. If you are old enough to need the drug it won't bother you in the least.

 

[alfsauve]

Too bad you're not in N. GA. Ga Firing Line, Marietta, has a consignment MK IV target model for $249. I'm almost tempted to get it even though I have two 22/45 lites already.

 

[triplebike]

I recommend you purchase a Ruger MKIV 22/45 Tactical or Lite. Then go to this website. (https://volquartsen.com/clearance) Purchase a brand new Ruger MKIV 5.5 inch barrel without sights (I think they're clearence price is $25.00). This gives two different handguns to shoot. I've done this and I run my Lite with iron open sights and the 5.5 with a Burris FF3 red dot sight. As far as I'm concerned Ruger owns the 22 handgun market. The MKIV is simply a fantastic handgun. And Ruger above all the others has the most outstanding customer service. I have put 10's of 1000's of rds through my MKIV's, 2 Lites, 2 5.5 in standards & a tactical. They all run like Secretariat (Your dad will understand the comparsion. LOL)

 

[Cornhusker77]

S&W would be my pick.
Everyone who has ever shot mine went out and bought their own.

 

[jstert]

ruger sr22. easy pistol to carry & fieldstrip, totally reliable, can happily use out of the box.

ruger mk4 is large and heavy, unoptimal as one ages, needs aftermarket tweaks to bring out all its goodness.

i have both. when age creeps up on me i will sell the mk4 without hesitation.

 

[chicharrones]

ruger sr22. easy pistol to carry & fieldstrip, totally reliable, can happily use out of the box.

ruger mk4 is large and heavy, unoptimal as one ages, needs aftermarket tweaks to bring out all its goodness.

i have both. when age creeps up on me i will sell the mk4 without hesitation.

What about red dot mounting on the SR22, as mentioned by the OP? Is that easily done?

If moving away from the "luger" grip angle, also mentioned by the OP, MK IVs can be had in 22/45 Lite configurations that can mount a Sheild RMS red dot. Should be no more than 27 ounces with a reflex red dot mounted. https://ruger.com/products/markIV2245Lite/specSheets/43949.html

Sure, that's 10 ounces more than a non-red dot SR22, but 27 ounces sure is lighter than my 36 oz. Buckmark with reflex red dot. 27 ounces seems like a good weight without going sub 20 ounces like a small carry gun.

 

[jstert]

What about red dot mounting on the SR22, as mentioned by the OP? Is that easily done?

If moving away from the "luger" grip angle, also mentioned by the OP, MK IVs can be had in 22/45 Lite configurations that can mount a Sheild RMS red dot. Should be no more than 27 ounces with a reflex red dot mounted. https://ruger.com/products/markIV2245Lite/specSheets/43949.html

Sure, that's 10 ounces more than a non-red dot SR22, but 27 ounces sure is lighter than my 36 oz. Buckmark with reflex red dot. 27 ounces seems like a good weight without going sub 20 ounces like a small carry gun.

indeed true; i purposely didn’t mention the ruger 22/45 lite, which is a different configuration than the mark4. i don’t know about red dot sights on a sr22, i’m away now and cant look at mine, but seems doubtful. i suggest handling both the sr22 and 22/45 lite model 4. i haven’t shot them but a s&w m&p compact 22 and a keltec p17 might be worthwhile to check out too.

my own vote (may not be o.p.’s) is to select a physically accommodating and reliable 22lr pistol first and foremost, with red dot sights a distant second factor. using a 22lr pistol for home protection means a rapid ammo dump to center mass, after the target has been identified as hostile, at legitimate protection distances (i.e. under 20’ inside most homes). i wonder if a red dot sight is entirely useful or even necessary here? would an older person mentally fixate on the red dot and not on the totality of the threatening situation, under stress in severely limited time?

 

[film495]

just get the one with the more Luger like grip. he said that's what he wanted.

 

[jstert]

just get the one with the more Luger like grip. he said that's what he wanted.

mark4 version, and maybe swap out the barrel/receiver unit for a 22/45 lite unit. best of both worlds.

 

[JDGray]

I much prefer the 22/45 over the ill fitting in my hand MK series. I hated the way it felt, but it shot well. Also stay clear of the Not made by Sig Mosquito! Total garbage.

 

[chicharrones]

indeed true; i purposely didn’t mention the ruger 22/45 lite, which is a different configuration than the mark4. i don’t know about red dot sights on a sr22, i’m away now and cant look at mine, but seems doubtful. i suggest handling both the sr22 and 22/45 lite model 4. i haven’t shot them but a s&w m&p compact 22 and a keltec p17 might be worthwhile to check out too.

my own vote (may not be o.p.’s) is to select a physically accommodating and reliable 22lr pistol first and foremost, with red dot sights a distant second factor. using a 22lr pistol for home protection means a rapid ammo dump to center mass, after the target has been identified as hostile, at legitimate protection distances (i.e. under 20’ inside most homes). i wonder if a red dot sight is entirely useful or even necessary here? would an older person mentally fixate on the red dot and not on the totality of the threatening situation, under stress in severely limited time?

I missed if anyone changed the parameters from target gun to home defense in this particular thread.

 

[Russ57]

Thank you chicharrones.

"expressing his desire to put a nice high quality reflex sight on a nice high quality target pistol that had a grip style as similar as possible to the old Luger."

His dad clearly wants a .22 LR pistol for target shooting One with the ability to mount a red dot sight, plus a Luger like grip. Short of spending big money on a Euro target pistol, that screams standard Ruger Target Mark X. Beyond me why some feel the need to suggest solutions that have nothing in common with what the OP is looking for.

The NRA 2700/Precision matches epitomize target shooting in America. I have never seen a Buckmark, Victory, or SR22 at a match. I have seen quite a few Ruger Mark X's but never a 22/45. In American guns, High Standard's and S&W 41's are the most prevalent (or .45 ACP conversions). At roughly half the price my lowly Ruger will shoot as many bullseyes as my (well actually my brother's) High Standard but maybe about 20-30% less X-rings. Likely it is because I adored that High Standard (which my brother repossessed after selling off all his S&W 41's).

To the OP; if you are willing to go the next step up in price, in no particular order, I'd look at Pardini SP, Hammerli 280(S), or Benelli MP95E (cheapest). All of these will be used and parts will be problematic (but OMG what gun a real Swiss Hammerli, or even Sig, is). I liked the IZH 35M a LOT but that ship has sailed. I suggest you pretend you didn't read/see this paragraph as it leads to certain financial ruin.

 

[Oninotaki]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, now that my father has been made aware that Volquartsen pistols exist he is looking at their black mamba in 4.5" barrel configuration, with a Trijicon RMR Type 2. My mother thanks you all