Advice on correcting shots veering to right

[wingding189]

Hello all,

First of all I am a new shooter and would like some advice on correcting an issue that occurred on my first day to the range.

While firing 9mm rounds from the Beretta PX4 at a range of 10 meters I noticed that most of my shots grouped around the right of the target. These were spread from right middle to right low of the bulls-eye. Also these shots were technically in the body area of the target and none of them touched the white not target paper area. I did manage to get 5 odd shots into the center of the target, though I don't remember what I did to get those on target.

An experienced friend did try out the ammo and gun and determined that the weapon and rounds used were not causing this issue.

I am right handed and right eye dominant. I was using a weaver stance with left foot forward and a forward lean.

What would you suggest is causing this? Also any suggestions on what exercises I can do to correct this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[inSight-NEO]

An experienced friend did try out the ammo and gun and determined that the weapon and rounds used were not causing this issue.

This, to me, says quite a bit. Therefore, it could very well be a "software" issue, not a "hardware" issue. Since you mentioned that you are a beginner, I would simply keep at it. One cannot expect ideal results right from the start.

In terms of "helping" you, it might prove somewhat difficult to do so without actually being there while you shoot. Best thing I can say, at this point, is to work on trigger/grip control. Generally, with the Weaver stance you mentioned using, the weak side hand is pulled back with force equal to the firing hand, which is being pushed..all while both arms are somewhat bent at the elbow. Are you doing this?

One alternative stance, similar to the Weaver, would be the "modified Weaver" or "Chapman" stance. I prefer this stance, btw. In this case, the weak side hand pulls (with the arm being bent at the elbow) and the strong side (firing hand) pushes just enough to counter the pull of the weak side...but, not quite as much so as the traditional Weaver, so I have determined. Keep in mind, in this case, the strong side arm (firing hand side) is locked tight...hence, a straight elbow. Of course, leaning forward, with the weak side leg being forward as well (as in the Weaver) is necessary for this technique to be effective.

Of course, regardless of whether or not I use the Weaver or Chapman stance, I generally prefer a quite aggressive frontward lean, along with maintaining a bent "weak side" leg. Ditto for the Isosceles, but minus the forward leg thing. Here, I just deeply bend at both knees.

Regardless of stance thing, it seems to me that you may simply be mismanaging the trigger pull/grip. Outside of live fire practice, you might try purchasing some A-Zoom snap caps (just for safety and preservation of your weapon) and work on dry fire drills. Hence, load the weapon with a snap cap and (making absolutely sure you are indeed using a snap cap vs a live round), aim at a small focal point somewhere within the home...then fire. Do this over and over again, all while trying to keep the sight on target without moving it via bad trigger pulls or mismanaged grip. Do this enough, and things will begin to smooth out over time. Now, while such a drill cannot account for recoil, it can help in developing hand/eye coordination and trigger/grip control. This will help in the long run.

Just remember, pull the trigger back in one smooth, even motion; try not to jerk it. Also, do this while maintaining a constant, steady grip. Sounds easy, but if it were so, then we would all be expert marksmen. Just keep at it. Also, focus on the target first, front sight second, followed by the rear sight; all happening within a split second. At least this is how I was taught.

Keep in mind, reading about what to do, in terms of shooting, is similar to trying to learn martial arts by reading books and watching video related material. Yes, it can put you in the right frame of mind and certainly give you an idea of the fundamentals. This is all well and good and can help...to a degree. But, without diligent practice, along with the aid of a "professional," it will only take you so far. Personally, I would seek the aid of your "experienced" friend and see if he can help you learn the fundamentals of shooting.

 

[jhallrv4]

All that said above, and sometimes, shifting the pistol's position slightly in the hand, after putting the backstrap in the "V" of the thumb and forefinger, shift it SLIGHTLY to the left of the "V". And another thing is to alter where the trigger meets the finger...if pulling to the right, shift the trigger slightly to the left on the finger. DO NOT do both of these at the same time. Try one, then the other.
Thinking of squeezing the trigger as if it was squeezing one tiny drop out of a medicine dropper may help.
At the risk of too much info at once, make sure you have found your "natural aiming area". Without looking at the target, raise your gun to the target, then look to see if it's aiming at the bullseye. If it isn't, shift your stance, and try that again, until when you raise the gun, it's naturally pointing at the bull.

Jeff

 

[BCRider]

For starters try using less finger on the trigger and ensure that the last part of the trigger finger is straight across the trigger and not pointing back. Other than that it could be any one or combo of about 5 or 6 things that are impossible to diagnose over the 'net.

 

[RatDrall]

Move the rear sight to the left?

Dryfire practice helps learning trigger control greatly...

 

[9mmepiphany]

are all your shots, both DA first shot and followup SA shots, all going to the same area?

are you shooting with both thumbs forward or locking down your right thumb?

the obvious first suspect is too much finger on the trigger, but it could very easily be your grip, your arms or even your stance. it would be easy to tell if we could just see you shoot, but pictures of your grip and stance would really help for suggestions.

as you are a new shooter, i'm interested at how you arrived at your shooting stance. the Weaver stance has pretty much been replaced in modern training by the Isosceles because it enhances accurate shot placement and recoil management.

 

[wingding189]

inSight-NEO, jhallrv4, and BCRider - I will go ahead and practice the grip, where my finger goes on the trigger or how much), as well as work on the dry-fire drills that you all have suggested. Thank you three for detailed advice on what could be (should be done) to correct this issue.

RatDrall - I am not sure if I would like to move the rear sight to the left for its really a "software" issue that I need to address before both the software and hardware work together correctly. I do appreciate your suggestion regardless.

9mmepiphany - The DA shot would always be a flier and then the follow-up DA shots were all grouped in the same area (mostly to the right of centermass).
From what I remember both of my thumbs were foward during the time I fired. I can double check this during my dry-fire sequences.

As for the pictures I would rather pass (sorry just personal preference) yes this will make things difficult but again I don't like pictures.

I had adopted the Weaver stance as my initial stance however I am still trying to find the one that feels most comfortable for me. I will go and try out the Isosceles. Thanks for your advice.

 

[gunnie]

have you sandbagged it to make sure the sights are correct?

gunnie

 

[MCgunner]

Someone posted this a while back. If it's a software problem, this might help.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

Chart above points the way (of your errors) as in 1-2 and 4-5 o:clock positions shown.

Breathing while shooting will also aid (negatively) in changes just as one shoots..

As mentioned, got to learn to walk before one can run..

You're on the way, and that is good, to the straighter path to - on-target


Ls

 

[wingding189]

gunnie - Yes I have also used a boresight to make sure that the sights on the gun are correctly zeroed. My friend also used this gun as well and was able to group his shots at center mass so hardware is not the problem.

MCgunner, Lonestar49 - Thank you both for the chart. Looking at the groupings most of my hits were in the Thumbing and Tightening Grip While Pulling Trigger Area. This basically points out that I really need to start dry firing more and focus on better grip technique before I can get the nice center mass groupings. It will have to be a lot of practice to get this into my muscle memory.

Thank you all for your assistance

 

[searcher451]

For the left-handed shooter:

 

[rbohm]

one of the biggest issues a new shooter has is trying to wrap their finger around the trigger, and you tend to pull to the side of your shooting hand. you should be pulling the trigger with your end segment of your trigger finger, with the trigger between the tip and the first knuckle.

 

[9mmepiphany]

posted by wingding189
As for the pictures I would rather pass (sorry just personal preference) yes this will make things difficult but again I don't like pictures.

no problem...here's a couple of stock photos that i use to illustrate the two-handed grip and finger placement i use. they are shown using a Sig 220ST...so a little narrower, but with a longer trigger reach, than your Beretta

two-hand thumbs forward grip


trigger finger placement for DA trigger press...slack already taken up

 

[gunnie]

the best dry fire practice (IMO) is with the lights out at night, and a tv set target. you will see easily what went wrong. make sure gun is unloaded unless you wanna do an elvis impersonation.

gunnie

 

[loop]

I'm an instructor and see this all the time. It is a grip issue. I can't tell you which grip issue without more information, but I can tell you it is a grip issue.

My first guess would be you are tightening your grip while "pulling" the trigger.

It is easily cured. I had an 86-year-old man do that for eight rounds last Monday. I corrected his grip and nine of the next 10 rounds were dead center in a two-inch group.

Practice dry firing and not making any part of the gun move when the hammer drops.

Do not forget to follow through. Kind of like taking a photo. If you press the shutter release and let go you get a blur. If you press and hold an instant you get a clean shot...

 

[Elquatro]

I too am a new shooter, and my buddy and I just shot a bunch of .45 from a glock 21sf (nice gun by the way) last night. I was all over the place, then I remembered some tips on here about taking up slack on the trigger before firing. It helped a ton! When firing, I didn't realize how much the gun was moving by just the trigger pull.

Take up as much slack out of the trigger as you can before it goes boom. It helped me a lot.

 

[BCRider]

as loop suggested I found that holding the trigger back to the stop for a brief instant helped a lot. I thought of it as more a mental commitment to making a full trigger pull to aid in not anticipating the BANG. And I still think it's a good mental trick. But I can also see how by commiting to holding it at the rear travel stop for a moment it would act to steady the trigger pull up to the point of firing at a mechanical and grip level as well.

 

[DERGLOCKINMEISTER]

# 1 less finger on the trigger # 2 squeeze not pull # 3 practice , practice , practice

If someone else shoots the gun accurately , then by no means should you adjust the sights . The sights are fine - adjust the shooter .

 

[jayjaypunisher]

agree, definatley a grip issue, work on a firm but not overwhelming grip pressure, only the areas of your fingers on the frontstrap should be applying pressure, the tips (of your fingers)are just there. Also really concentrate on focusing your eye on the front sight post ONLY, blurry rear notch, blurry target area(just center in the fuzzy black,circle, ball, whatever the target). Sounds funny and will take practice to train your brain but as long as the front sight post is crystal clear your eye has a natural ability to center it in the rear notch and also to center it on a blurry target. Trust me and try it, your groups will shrink dramatically and the only way to get a X ring group out of a pistol at 50 yards is to focus your eye on the front sight post ONLY. Your eye can only focus on one thing at a time, the problem with I'd say 80%(probably more) of stray rounds is you are looking at the target at that last sec/secs before the round breaks and dont really know what your sights are doing at that point of discharge. Dry firing will really help with this.

Trigger control is paramount, I agree to pulling up the slack but dont wait there, keep the trigger moving just slower once the slack is out. I've always, and taught, that once you commit to the shot dont "un-commit", just keep it SMOOTH, even, smooth pressure. just a few tricks ive learned, I'm distinguished in pistol, presidents 100 in pistol, All Army pistol Champion twice just sayin.